mr2-digest Tuesday, 5 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 050 Transaxle oil capacity Transaxle oil cooler Magnecore wires High altitude engine control problems Re: BFG T/A R-1 (was: tires) MKII ABS Fog Light Question help please.. (Fwd) Re: OZ Montecarlo RE: the 'second cat' conspiracy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry Wood Date: 04 Dec 95 01:20:56 EST Subject: Transaxle oil capacity Steve Elder writes: >...I too recently changed my transaxle oil and could only get 3.5 qts to fit >at overflow. I suspect that oil trapped in the bottom did not drain >completely... Glad to know I'm not the only one. This is a complete mystery to me - how can 4 qts come out and only 3.5-3.6 qts go back? I put car up on blocks so that the rear end was up in the air in relation to the front to assure that all old oil would drain out. Measured what came out and it was, in fact, 4 qts. Do not know as a result of method used to drain if oil would have spilled out filler if car was level. Tried the "run it around a little" trick to "settle oil down" but that didn't/doesn't work. No matter what, no more than 3.6 qts will go in. Took car to Toyota service and had service manager himself check fluid level after change to Redline. He opened filler plug after making sure car was on lift *perfectly* level and oil greeted his shirt upon removal of plug. He said it was definitely full and not to worry about it. I think Toyota overfills at factory. Kerry Wood 93T black (mildy modified) ------------------------------ From: Kerry Wood Date: 04 Dec 95 00:55:00 EST Subject: Transaxle oil cooler Bob writes: >A couple of folks have written back stating that the small >u-shaped tube protruding from the bottom of the engine/trans ensemble >is in fact a cooler (or placeholder for one) for the manual-transmission >gear oil. This begs a follow-on question: >What causes the circulation? Is there a transmission-oil pump? Look at page MX51 of your '93 factory service manual. Note that it says "Oil Pump" and goes on to describe how to test/repair it. Have not torn down a 5 speed LSD transaxle myself and doubt that I ever will. Toyota service here advises that the best way to handle repair is to replace. Labor (even my time is worth something) to get one out will eat your lunch much less tear one apart and hope you get it right w/out all the SST's. Kerry Wood 93T black (mildly modified) ------------------------------ From: "Burns, James B." Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 07:36:00 EST Subject: Magnecore wires I saw your post on the Magnecore wires which said that their applicability was '91-92 turbos. Why not '93-'95 as well? What is different? Also, the Magnecores had about 1/2 the resistance as the stock wires, but could you actually detect any difference in performance or smoothness? Brad Burns '94T James.B.Burns@jhuapl.edu ------------------------------ From: uunet!illusion.magicno.com!marcus Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 07:32 MST Subject: High altitude engine control problems Hello again.. I've been off the list for a while due to my unreliable email delivery. Now I have moved to Colorado and have a reliable access provider and have re- subscribed to the list. I've missed the MR2 info for the last few months, but it's nice to get it again. Anyhow, since moving here, I've had some problems with the engine control. When it's cold out (~40F or so) it is worse, but the problem seems to always be present to some extent. Also, oxygenated fuel seems to make things a little worse. The problem goes away when the oxygen sensor heats up enough for the engine control to go closed circuit. Before then, however, the engine idles fine, but whenever I step on the accelerator, there is very little response and the engine almost dies. If I push the accelerator almost all the way, the turbo eventually spools up, but I don't like to do that with the engine cold. It appears that the ECU is leaning the mixture out too much. If I disconnect power to the ECU (to clear its memory), things are normal for a few days, so for some reason the ECU is learning to lean out the mixture. The problem never happened in Chicago, just here in Colorado. This summer I drove back to Chicago and the car started absolutely normally but a few days after coming back to altitude, the problem reappeared. The car has been into Toyota and their mechanic couldn't figure out what was going on. Toyota replaced the ECU with a new one and the problem seemed to have lessened, but it was also getting to be late spring then as well (and we went off of oxygenated fuel too). Now that it is getting cooler (and the oxygenated fuel is back) the problem is starting to get worse again. The ECU has connections to water temp, throttle position, turbo pressure, and volume air flow sensors. The Toyota mechanic tested all the sensors, but I guess that one of them could be out of spec but still pass tests (i.e. it reads "reasonable" but not "correct".) It seems that something is making the computer think that the engine is running rich, so it adjusts the fuel trim toward a leaner mixture. Since it only happens at altitude, I wouldn't think that it is the temp or position sensors, so that only leaves the turbo pressure and air flow sensors. I would suspect the air flow sensor, but I'm not sure how it would produce this symptom. Apart form the problems starting, don't most engines shift to open circuit tables at wide open throttle? I'm concerned about running too lean at WOT and causing hot spots in the engine to get too hot. I've talked to at least one other MR2T owner here who has no such problems, so I don't think it is a design problem. Any ideas what could be causing this? Perhaps I should ask Toyota to replace the volume air flow sensor? Thanks! marcus hall marcus@magicno.com 94 MR2T PS: The MR2 is realy fun on the canyon roads here!!! ------------------------------ From: uunet!mpf.jpl.nasa.gov!dsmyth (David Smyth) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 09:10:33 PST Subject: Re: BFG T/A R-1 (was: tires) Today I am replacing the BFG R-1 tires on my family sedan: a Mazda Protege LX (wonderful handling car to start with, and truly MAGICAL on theose R-1s). We have 12400 miles on those tires, which may not sound like much, but is the same that we got on 3 prevous sets of the OEM Bridgestone sh*t tires. And it is not the tread which is gone. The problem with using R-1 tires on the street for your daily driver is the sidewalls: they start to crack and crumble after 8 months. The factory rep was AMAZED that I got over 12000 miles out of them (I was too, as was everyone else). He said that R-1 tires are not meant to be used for daily driving on the street. The tire is a racing tire. Racing tires never last very long, and so the rubber doesn't have the formulation required to withstand the long term shock loads of street driving: hitting those freeway braille bumps, that sort of thing. On Nov 29th, Brian Lyn Fatt wrote: >On Nov 28th, Brad Burns wrote about BFG R1's... >>They have extremely stiff sidewalls which makes the ride very harsh and >>noisy, and the car dances around on the freeway following truck ruts and >>other irregularities much worse than on the stock tires, making those >>freeway drives very tiring. > >Also agree except for the last sentence. :-) Actually makes it more fun! The R-1 tires are very noisy, but man are they fun!!!!! Make CERTAIN your suspension is properly aligned, however, or you will find that dancing problem on the freeways. I got a complete laser/computerized (whatever) alignment (all axis, all wheels) and THEN they were wonderful on the freeway. >>They are made with very little and shallow tread, so I think they would be >>scary in the rain, too, especially after they wore down a bit. > >Not any scarier than my front wheel drive daily driver. I drove back >from a race on my R1 rain tires and it was pouring. The hydroplaning is >dealt with like in any other car. Weeeeeeeeee. :-) I found the tires to be no problem in the rain (but it hardly ever rains here). You don't do max G turns on any tire in the rain unless you are ________ <-fill in the blank. >>I personally wouldn't recommend it, especially on the MR2. YMMV. > >Due to the very soft compound, I agree here. If you can afford $600 every 6 months, then I would say GO FOR IT! I simply know my budget won't take $600 in June due to travel plans (pick up new Swan 60 in Finland on my birthday, sail Baltics, Componentware conference in Munich, then fly to Maui). No room for tires in those plans! Obviously, it's not my boat ;-) _____________________________________________________________________ | David.E.Smyth@jpl.nasa.gov http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/~dsmyth |_ |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | | Project: Mars Pathfinder -- Low Cost Lander with "Rocky IV" Rover | | | Team: Flight Software -- Object-Oriented Software for Mars | | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | | Voice: (818) 393-7944 FAX: (818) 393-0530 | | | Office: Space Flight Operations Facility 230/207a | | | Snail: JPL, MS 230-200, 4800 Oak Grove Dr., Pasadena, CA 91109 | | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | | "It isn't exactly rocket science... well, I guess maybe it is..." | | |_____________________________________________________________________| | |_____________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ From: Charlie Reynolds Date: 04 Dec 95 13:26:11 EST Subject: MKII ABS I've got a '92 NA with ABS and have a question. Under hard braking, boarderline lockup, the BRAKE light in the dash lights up. Is this normal or is the system telling me that there is a problem? Charlie Reynolds '92 NA Black ------------------------------ From: uunet!netcom.com!desire (desire) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:12:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fog Light Question I am getting ready to buy a '91 NA, and was wondering if fog lights were standard on all MR2's? This is the first one I've seen that DOESN'T have any and I'm thinking that this car may have been wrecked and the front end replaced. Also, do all MR2's have power windows/locks? (I looked through the FAQ for the answers to these, but didn't see them. If I just missed it somewhere, I apologize.) Grant Hatter Orlando, FL ------------------------------ From: uunet!disney.com!jsun (Jason Kaehler) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:54:55 -0800 Subject: help please.. '93 MR2 Turbo TTop Problem 1) purchased this thing with 'blue' swaybars on it. It seems the boots are missing for these things (NOT Toyota swaybars) and they rattle something aweful. Where can I get the correct boots? Problem 2) previous owner cut holes and added aftermarket sidelights (the little guys right in front of the doors). These things were stolen the other night...who makes this piece? any ideas? I live in LA, but will mailorder something if I know it's the correct part. My toyota dealer is useless for identifying the make of the swaybars. Please email any responses to me directly as I had to quit the mailinglist due to too much mail. Thanks in advance! ___________________________________________________________________ Suicide is man's way of saying to God: "you can't fire me, I quit!" Jason Kaehler jsun@disney.com Disney Virtual Reality Lab v. 818.544.7975 "Buy the best, invent the rest!" ___________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Gary Friedman" Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:06:13 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Re: OZ Montecarlo Wanted to forward the 3 e-mails that follow to the digest. Thanks for the responses. Thanks to those that may have e-mailed to my originally mis-typed reply address. I did find that with my present 15x7 ICW 7 star wheels there wasn't enough clearance to try 215-50-15 up front.. Barely a finger of clearance on far side of the tire with the 205's .... so its 205-50-15 front and 225-50-15 rear, all SP 8000's on the aforementioned ICW 15x7 wheels. I'm going back to check out the Oz Montecarlo's one more time later in the week. Have to maount one to compare to exiting 7 star wheels. I'll let you all know if I decide to get them (depending on if I think I can unload the existing wheels). Comments still welcome on OZ Montecarlos!!!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 08:15:32 -0700 From: Andy Vold To: gfriedmn@paradise.net Subject: Re: OZ Montecarlo Gary- I sent a message to the last address, so I don't know if you received a message from me or not. Basically, I mentioned that I have been looking at those wheels myself. Very sharp! Also, in the Tire Rack catalog, the 15x7 OZ Montecarlos are going for $189 each, so under $100 is an excellent price. Although, I was looking at and wondering if the 16x7 for the front and 16x7.5 or 16x8 for the back would work, but I haven't done the research yet. Anyways, if you get any info from people who already have them on their Mk-IIs, please forward that info to me. Thanks, andy andy_vold@sat.mot.com 91 MR2 T - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vernon Natewa" Date sent: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 08:30:48 -0700 To: gfriedmn@paradise.net Subject: Re: OZ Montecarlo Wheels Hi Gary, On Nov 30, 9:00pm, Gary Friedman wrote: > > Does anyone have OZ Montecarlo's on their MR2??-- considered them for > their Mk II, or seen them on a Mk II?? > > I would appreciate any feedback ASAP. I don't have Montecarlo's on my 93' MKII, but I was trying to get a set since I liked their looks. The only problem was that they don't sell a 15x7 and 15x8 or 16x7 and 16x8 (might be 7.5). The only option was to get a 15x7 (front) AND 16x8 (rear), which I didn't want to do. I think it is important to match wheel width to tire tread width. The original 195/55-15 tires are on a 6" wide rim and the 225/50-15 is on a 7" rim. I would have preferred to stay with a 195 up front since it doesn't have much load up front and the response should be better. The same width rim on different size tires looks a little odd to me as well as the front rim being wider than the tread with on a stock tire. I don't know what tire sizes you have or what year your MKII is, but I had a 91' and currently have the 93'. After much searching for a reasonable priced wheels, I ended up with ROH polaris silver 16x7 and 16x8 wheels with Dunlop SP8000 205/45-16 and 225/45-16 tires. I feel that the look and tire/wheel combinations are properly matched although I would have prefered thinner spokes and 235's on the rear which I couldn't find in a 45 or 40 series. If you have any other questions, email to vernonn@indirect.com after 5:00 pm mountain time. Vernon Natewa ps. Is your address shown below correct? > > Respond to gfriedmn@paradise.net > > Thanks > > Gary > >-- End of excerpt from Gary Friedman - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Self To: "Vernon Natewa" Subject: Re: OZ Montecarlo Wheels Send reply to: gfriedman@icanect.net Date sent: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:39:57 Thanks for the response. Nope, the "reply to address" I typed in was wrong!!! Glad you figured it out!! My present wheels (ICW 7 stars) are 15x7 front and back. The previous owner had them put on just before I bought the car. The new 8000's make a world of difference over the cupped, worn, misbalanced, misaligned tires that had been on it!! The main reason I am considering the Montecarlo (besides the great price!) is that the brake dust is a real pain with these polished wheels. Especially on the fronts with pitting and stuff. If I can unload my wheels before they sell the Oz ones I'll grab 'em just for the clearcoat and resulting easier maintanance. The only thing I'm still thinking about is that the Montecarlo with silver finish and clearcoat is nowhere near as shiny as polished aluminum. Are your Polaris Silvers super shiny or somewhat matte finished like the Oz silver finish?? Talk to ya later.... Gary ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!AstonMrtn Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 00:45:33 -0500 Subject: RE: the 'second cat' conspiracy Sorry, don't know who, but SOMEONE wrote: >>In a message dated 95-11-30 06:18:55 EST, you write: >>you might be talking about the catalytic converter. Is it >>needed.... that > >I went down to Toyota, and have been told that it's definetel >y not a cat!! >(It's just in the same position as a Mk1 with a cat!) > >So I'm ready for the extra 5 horses. > >Any suggestions for dumping the tiny box? I was thinking of >maybe using some >of that flex hosing (is that the same as the braided hose that I've >used for Ok, first off, that little box on the header pipe IS a catalytic convertor! FIRST, I read in either the owner's manual or service manual (I can find out which if you want) that the California cars had TWO catalytic convertors to meet emissions, while the 49 state cars had ONE. The picture showed the tiny box you refer to as being the second cat. SECOND, I need to replace my header pipe (due to bad fabrication by Toyota) and, since it's a CA car ('91 NA), have to buy the correct replacement part to keep it legal - which costs about $600!!! That's for the header pipe with the 'tiny box' on it (could anything BUT a catalytic convertor boost the price so much?). Wanna get rid of it? Do what I'm gonna do - buy a header pipe for the 49 states MR2s for $185 at your Toyota dealer (or go to a junkyard if you want). This part does NOT have that second cat on it (ie easy 5hp). The only catch is that you'll have to put your ORIGINAL header pipe back on the car whenever you need to get the car smogged (the car probably won't pass a visual inspection, even though the replacement part is a factory part and looks it). ...hope this helps... - -Matt G. '91 NA, white, t-top ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #50