mr2-digest Wednesday, 7 May 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1065 Re: MR2 MK1 Rev limit mods + 5 stud wheels. MR2 MK1 car audio problems re: MR2 Bra MR2 10,000 rpm [none] MR2 MKII bras MR2 Second car as a Lexus SC400 MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1063 Re: MR2 MK1 Rev limit mods Re: MR2 Japanese Ordering MR2 North/South California Rally MR2 mk1 K&N MR2 RE: BRAS Re: MR2 Japanese Ordering Re: MR2 Second car as a Lexus SC400 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daucott@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 Rev limit mods + 5 stud wheels. In a message dated 97-05-07 04:52:58 EDT, you write: > What is involved in raising the rev capabilities of an engine? Hi, I just went about half way to your goal. I got all the head mods done and much of the intake work required, and I installed the FA 12.7:1 pistons you'd need (all coated with thermal and slip barriers). I also have the light HKS flywheel and the TRD header (Jethot coated). The car revs REALLY fast and makes 7400 RPM like nothing's going on. It pulls hard all the way until the computer shuts it down. I lowered my compression to 10.9:1 so I could run pump gas. My thoughts on additional mods you'd need to make 10K rpm: Billet crank: the stock one becomes a jump rope somewhere around 8500 I'm told. Carillo rods Dual Carburettor setup (eliminate the computer) Don't lower the compression Spec the head work so that flow will take you to 10K Make sure you use an SC block My engine cost around $2300 with me installing and assembling it, so you can count on more than double that. The billet crank alone will drain most of your money. Dave A. daucott@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Peter Stonell" Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:07:22 +1200 Subject: MR2 MK1 car audio problems Check that the power supply leads are man enough to carry the current for the job. on my MKII the power supply leads were little baby things and dropped so much voltage at higher volumes it distorted. Putting decent sized cable cured the problem. The low frequencies draw more current than the highs. ------------------------------ From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 07:41:42 -0400 Subject: re: MR2 Bra I use my factory bra on my 91 MKII only on longer road trips where I have a good chance of winding up behind a truck at cruising speeds. You NEVER want to leave the things on continuously, unless your car's nose is already pretty screwed up! They cannot be left on when it starts to rain, and you cannot leave them on during times the car bakes in the sun, as the paint will fade at a different rate. No matter how well you take care of the finish, a car that spends all it's time outside of a garage WILL fade, even if only slightly, and a continually worn bra will show up the difference of fade between the front and the rest of the car. Also, whenever you put on the bra, make sure your car is absolutely clean AND dust-free! Being lazy in this area will only scratch the finish of the front you think you are protecting. One more thing... Even though Toyota claims their bra will fit only 92's thru 95's, if your 91 MKII has the rear spoiler, electric antenna coming out or the spoiler's side piece, and T-tops, the bra for the later MkII's will fit perfectly. - ----- Joe Pearlstein ffff,0000,00001991 Crimson Red MR2; past owner of a 1986 Super Red MR2 nu3y@critpath.org ------------------------------ From: Jason Church Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:24:44 -0400 Subject: MR2 10,000 rpm To: Travis Morien What is involved in raising the rev capabilities of an engine? Has anyone done something like this? I would love to have one with a redline of 10000 rpm+. This may be a bit optimistic though! Sure, your engine will rev to 10,000 rpm!! Once. Jason :-) ------------------------------ From: bagdon@rust.net (Steve Bagdon) Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 15:53:38 GMT Subject: [none] >>BTW, my 250hp/flyweel 200hp/rear wheels was produced while observing fuel >>cuttoff. So I made these numbers at a max of 11.8psi (as documented by >>the factory shop manual. Either way you look at it, you're 18psi should >>have made a *heck* of a lot more power. >> >>Opinions, any one? I believe that we've all covered *how* to get the max power from the 3S-GTE engine. What I believe we are covering here is *why* this particular setup didn't make great power (or as much as was anticipated). I'll step over the line, and make some broad statements here... One thing mentioned to me - the car was experiencing detonation at 18psi. Doesn't sound good on that count. >The stock turbo and MAF set up seems to have difficulty holding 18 psi aove >4000rpms due to this problem you will find that the torque and power falls >off above 4000 rpms. I heard of this before with turbos that are setup for quick spool-up times (for which the max air volume suffers?). One particular member with a custom turbo setup stated that he experiences loss of mass over a certain rpm range. The obvious cure for this on the 3S-GTE is a turbo trimmed for redline, with the addition of an HKS VPC (type device). > I am only mentioning what was observed in my vehicle, >but have heard this confirmed by others on the net and by looking at other >dyno graphs. The stock Toyo turbo can't efficiently push the volume to >maintain boost at that rpm. No complaints or disagreement there. The CT-26 is meant to meet the needs of the broadest market sector available. I'm sure that they could have trimmed the turbo to have awesome high-rpm boost capabilities, but the bottom end would have severely suffered. And could you imagine the warranty claims from people running 300hp at the real wheel, in the real world? And they do nothing but whine that the low-end wasn't as good as they'd like it. > If anyone is curious I will e-mail copies of >some of my Dyno runs. I sent them to Geoff but they are as yet not added to >my who's who entry. My web pages also have the documented dyno runs: http://www.rust.net/~bagdon/mr2/mk-ii/dyno/dyno.htm >Oh yeah the stock turbo seems to hapilly push .8 bar up to red line (more >like 13 psi) but will peak at 1.2 or better (above 18 psi) and fall back to >about .8 or .9 bar. Anybody know if that's related to any protective circuit on the turbo setup? With that additional VSV, it wouldn't suprise me if the ECU has a secondary backup to the fuel-cutoff circuit, to have the VSV back off to .8bar if it sees anything about that point for extended periods of time. A protective circuit in case the fuel-cutoff fails in the ECU? > My best runs yielded 277 lb ft of torque at the wheels >and 225 hp at the wheels. I am planning on perhaps replacing the MAF and >turbo in the future. SCC did not seem to have any trouble with a more >efficient turbo. I hope to be as lucky. There have been some *excellent* posts in the past (and those are available in the archive) concerning the best 'staging' process to get the most hp. I believe the two areas that hadn't been discussed to this point is fuel-rail mods and ignition upgrades. There are some debates as to the value of the igntion upgrades, but I believe someone has documented the (serious?) problems with the fuel rail at higher boost levels. All debate aside, I fall back to my stock answer whenever anyone asks what the 3S-GTE engine is capable of doing, if prepped properly. As I've said in the past - - if the proper air-fuel ratio is maintained, and the air-mass temperature is kept at a reasonable level, the 3S-GTE engine is capable of producing an unbelieveable amount of power from a bone-stock long-block. When I was doing my dyno runs, and we compared the printouts, the hp just seemed to keep climbing and climbing as we increased boost. If the climb rate could have been maintained to redline, I was guessing something like 300-320hp at the rear wheel, at redline. But this must be where the compromises of the CT-26 comes out, because now it's obvious that 18psi with a CT-26 just isn't a good thing. Etc, etc, etc. Unfortunately, I just don't have the funds to take the turbo to the limit right now (with all my other projects). But, if I can ever stuff the 3S-GTE in the front end of a Corolla GT-S... :-) Steve B. ------------------------------ From: David Caraker Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 21:09:54 -0400 Subject: MR2 MKII bras 0000,0000,ffffI'd rather wipe the bugs off a properly treated bra than scrub them off the paint.ffff,0000,0000 :) David Caraker ------------------------------ From: John Wan Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 23:23:35 +1000 Subject: MR2 Second car as a Lexus SC400 Hi all, So sorry about the bandwidth. I have a Mr2 Turbo, but I am thinking of getting a Lexus SC400 as a second car. These cars are not offically brought into Australia by Lexus, but there are a few importer who does this. They import the car via Japan called the Soarer. I cam get the 4litre V8 or the 3litre twin turbo straight six (manual). I need to get some opinions good or bad about this car. Which one is the better car, the six or the V8. Thanks in advance. John Wan. ------------------------------ From: Michael Robb Date: Wed, 7 May 97 10:13:11 -0500 Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1063 >> Just got the front of my MK11 repainted due to a run in with a flying >> deer (actually an interesting story). > >I'll bet Santa Claus is pissed! Sounds like you were speeding around >the North Pole and ...... > >Come on. Give us the real story. I don't know about other parts of the country but here in Michigan deer crossing the roadways are a real problem. Well, one morning I was running late for work. So heading down I-75 at 80mph I was half way past a semi-truck when I saw a deer approaching from the median heading across all three lanes of traffic (I was in the center lane, semi in the right hand lane). There was no way that I was going to hit him because I was too far back. I almost breathed a sigh of relief but then the deer jumped about four feet into the air and the semi nailed him in mid-air. I thought he was just going to blow up when he hit the semi, but he didn't. By this time, Rudolf is at least 10-12 feet in the air twirling toward my windshield. To the right of me was the semi and to the left more traffic. So I just pushed harder on the brakes as my childhood flashed before my eyes. The deer ended up coming down right in front of the car and since the MK11 sits so low to ground the car acted like a huge scoop and just pushed him back to the median. About $3000 worth of damage. The funniest thing was that they put the car on alignment rack and it didn't need an adjustment. I guess I was pretty lucky considering that a couple of years ago a deer came through the window of a sedan on I-75 and ended up kicking a lady to death before they could get her out of the car. MIchael ------------------------------ From: whitemr2@juno.com (Matt Gawlowski) Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 10:02:59 EDT Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 Rev limit mods On Wed, 7 May 1997 11:48:35 +0800 (WST) Travis Morien writes: > >What is involved in raising the rev capabilities of an engine? > >I have an 88-89 MK1 na and I am just curious about (kicking around the >idea of) making the engine rev more freely and to a higher limit. One thing you have to worry about are the valve springs; if you reach their resonance they'll practically explode apart. The solution to THAT would be stiffer valve springs. I've also heard 'piston speed' referred to a lot. I'm not sure what the limits are, but if you think about it, the faster the engine is going, the faster the piston is moving up and down. It'll have to accelerate and decelerate very quickly. Some things I can see to improve that situation would be a longer stroke (new crankshaft) and lighter pistons (less momentum; easier to accelerate). And then you have to make sure you can dissipate all that extra heat (double the rpms, double the heat generated...right?)... Oh yeah, you also gotta make sure your fuel injectors are up to the task, don't want to run lean... Matt Gawlowski, '91 White NA MR2, whitemr2@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/8906 ------------------------------ From: Allan Stewart Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MR2 Japanese Ordering > > Allan Stewart wrote: > > > MkII, '91T - 149K miles. I don't drive it gently at all. I'm amazed > > the clutch has lasted this long. > > Clutch cover 33,000yen ($264) > Plate (sports) 24,000yen ($192) > Plate (metal) 42,000yen ($336) > > Prices not including tax at 5%. US$ rate at 125yen/US$1. YEOUCH!! Are these things platinum plated?? Since I've never done a clutch (except on a motorcycle), I need to ask some questions. What's the difference in the sports and metal plates? I ammume from the (huge) price difference that the metal is better. Why? What is the sports made of. Should I get the metal for handling the extra HP when I finally get that APEX boost controller? Are these complete sets? Friction and pressure plates? How many plates (each) does a MR2 have? What the hell is a clutch cover ? > So how about it? I'd like to get some feedbak from the list first. The only think I'm almost sure of is that I should get something "better than stock". NET PEOPLE, please enlighten me. > Tony McDaid > tony@akina.or.jp Allan - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Allan M. Stewart - astewart@flinet.com (home account) Encore Computer Corp. - astewart@encore.com ****** SPAM MAIL WILL GET REPLY WITH /VMUNIX ATTACHED ******* Someday I hope to meet Bill Gates....... so I can knee him in the groin. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: psmith@mofo.com (Smith, Patrick E.) Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 07:54:21 -0700 Subject: MR2 North/South California Rally - --MimeMultipartBoundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" HI Rally People Just a reminder, the North/ South California Rally is coming up May 17-18. For info check the IMOC www page: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8906/imoc.html or email Matt : Matt_Gawlowski@Trimble.com or myself Patrick psmith@mofo.com See ya at the Rally....... - ------------------- Overflow-To: psmith@mofo.com (Smith, Patrick E.), abushakr@usc.edu (Ramzi), alkirab@gte.net ('Colin Burns'), AMacias@msn.com (Alan Macias), arthurc@sfsu.edu ('Chandler, Arthur'), asjoseph@hidesert.com (asjoseph), BATLA@msn.com (Abdul Batla), BbBbB711@aol.com ('Billy 91T'), Beejal@aol.com (Beejal), boostup@earthlink.net (Michael Takata), budlong1@gte.net (David Budlong), celeste@crl.com ('Chandler, Jeanie'), charlesg@touch.micron.caltech.edu (Charles Grosjean), curtis1@home.com (K. Curtis Brown), dabarnes@orion.ac.hmc.edu (Dan Barnes), DAVISinLA@aol.com (DAVISinLA), eac1@osi.com (Ed A. Craft), ericc@acssouth.com (Eric Chan), geraldsa@ix.netcom.com (Gerald San Agustin), GeraldThomas@msn.com (Gerald Thomas), glc311@pe.net ('Jerry Cornelison 91 NA'), hwang@nchip.COM ('Harry Wang'), James_Kim@toyota.com (James Kim), Jay.Gatmaitan@smc.com (Jay.Gatmaitan), jgrosp@ladwp.com ('Joel Grospe'), jhosee@artemis.davd.com ('Jeffrey Ho See'), magnus@continuus.com (Magnus Lindgren), mark.gonda@boeing.com ('mark.gonda@boeing.com'), matt-t@ridgecrest.ca.us (Matt Lubbes), Matt_Gawlowski@Trimble.COM (Matt Gawlowski), MJime714@aol.com (MJime714), mr2-digest@validgh.com ('mr2-digest@validgh.com'), MTuccia777@aol.com (MTuccia777), nancy@jasper.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Perry), ngan.bui@email.csun.edu (Andy Bui), pferet@ix.netcom.com ('Pete. Feret'), pjscott@euclid.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Peter Scott), randyc@pacbell.net ('Randy Chase '), rbutler4@ix.netcom.com ('Russ 93 NA '), rcrx@earthlink.net ('Greg Dimas-racerx'), RumRunner@southland.net (RumRunner), saty@CS.Stanford.EDU (Satyen Kothari), swhite@telis.org ('Stan White'), tlee@calstatela.edu (Tommy Lee), trainman@primenet.com ('Bob Freitas '), trop@sj.fore.com (Troy Pummill), troy@logitek.com (Troy Buss), tsaltzma@inetworld.net (Terry D. Saltzman), turn6@earthlink.net ('turn6@earthlink.net'), wlb@calweb.com (william brandt), WOWWWWW68@aol.com ('Adrian Chan 91 white na') - --MimeMultipartBoundary-- ------------------------------ From: "dc" Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:36:07 +0100 Subject: MR2 mk1 K&N Hi all, Having fitted the K&N FIPK last week - I have to say I am really impressed with it. Response has been improved no end, MR2 feel like she has a lot more power, induction sound is great, and the best news is that despite this extra power, my fuel range actually increased! With town driving only, I managed to get an extra 30 miles out of the tank before the reserve light came on - 230miles - it normally comes on around -200. (ok - there were a few triple digit blasts, but only once or twice) Dave '89 Mk2 (98K) ------------------------------ From: COMMANDOE@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MR2 RE: BRAS I have owned a Toyota Bra for 3 years for my 88 Supercharged. The bra is very sharp and of high quality. I take it off when it rains or the car is dirty it is a real pain it must take me a whole 30 seconds to do this!!!!!!!! LOL I have never ever seen anyones paint faded from this or had any flapping in the wind problems. If you think a bra is ugly look at my car on the MR2 website! STEVE 88 Supercharged ASP Toyota Bra ------------------------------ From: Steve Bagdon Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MR2 Japanese Ordering > > Allan Stewart wrote: > > > > Prices not including tax at 5%. US$ rate at 125yen/US$1. That's the market rate, not the bid/ask spread. Last time I wired money, I paid .00814 (or I recevied 122.85 for every dollar). You don't get what they quote on the NASDAQ, and you don't get spot market on currencies... :) Steve B. ------------------------------ From: Jayson Entao Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: MR2 Second car as a Lexus SC400 On Wed, 7 May 1997, John Wan wrote: [...] > These cars are not offically brought into Australia by Lexus, but > there are a few importer who does this. They import the car via > Japan called the Soarer. I cam get the 4litre V8 or the 3litre > twin turbo straight six (manual). > > I need to get some opinions good or bad about this car. > Which one is the better car, the six or the V8. > Well, the V8 is probably the better tourer but the 6 has a lot more hop-up potential, since you can use pretty much all the stuff they have for the Supra TT. I think. Which one is less expensive, and is the turbo 6 available with a manual tranny? -Jayson ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #1065