mr2-digest Sunday, 28 September 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1647 Re: MR2 Re: MRX PICS MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1646 MR2 Problems with SCC MR2 Piston Slap Re: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1646 MR2 mk 1 MR2 Re: MRX PICS Non-MR2 related but read it anyway :-) MR2 parts Re: MR2 Problems with SCC Re: the "riceboy" MR2 MR2 MkII TRD Strut Brace_Greddy IC MR2 MkII Engine Miss Solved MR2 MkII Knock Sensor Test ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adarsh Carter Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:00:45 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 Re: MRX PICS I believe Top Gear once pointed out that, as far as automobile styling is concerned, rarely ever is anything original. In my opinion, the MKI generally resembles a Lotus, the MKII a Ferrari and the X a Boxster. It's a matter of personal taste, but I think they're all damn good looking cars, regardless of whether they resemble other (much more expensive) cars. Looks are all well and good provided the performance is in there. And I have yet to hear a good argument that anything on the road delivers more "bang for the buck" than our '2s. - -- Adarsh '91 MR2 NA; Durham, NC mistertwo@wl.net wrote: > > Hmmmmm, > Seems like the American designers at GM are turning into copy cats then too > with the "new" NSXRX7 , err i mean C5 Corvette.... heheheheeh, but if the > new MRX is only 12.5k $ here in the states ( yea right, toyota will find > dome excuse to kick it up to the price of the celica!!! ) then i will buy > one..... And who said the Porsche Boxster is a *bad* thing to copy? hehhehh > > I agree, Italian styling is hard to beat.... > > charles t. > mistertwo@wl.net > ------------------------------ From: DAZDP@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1646 CAN I HAVE A WEBSITE TO VIEW A PICTURE OF THE MRX? ------------------------------ From: Mattled@webtv.net (Matt Ledbetter) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:43:15 -0500 Subject: MR2 Problems with SCC Has anyone else had problems with their Sport Compact Car subscription? My November issue never showed up, so I ended up buying it at the local bookstore. My October issue showed up about a week after I saw it at the same bookstore. To add a little MR2 content. The same person must be in charge of getting me my copy and proof-reading. This is a direct qoute from the article on Keith Kelleher's MR2: "He says turbocharing is starting the catch on in his area, and one of the more popular kits if from Greddy.". Who edit's this stuff? Matt ------------------------------ From: BRYEOD@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MR2 Piston Slap Anyone have this? Piston Slap that is. I have an 85 MR2 with a little piston slap. I was trying to find out the problem with the car and got several answers. First I was told it was the valves. Next I was told to have the valves shimmed. Bad gas was one. Bad gas was even another answer. I took the car to a friend with a bore scope? I have no idea what it does, but he looked in my engine and told me it was slapping. Now, how bad is piston slap? This is how bad it is. New Camrys, under 20k were showing up at Toyota dealers with piston slap. Toyota was happy to rebuild them. Toyota did some research and felt that it isn't neccesary to rebuild the engines. Toyota want's to rebuild me for 3k. The mechanic says drive on, sometimes the noise will stop. He said not to build the engine, have fun with it, drive it hard, change the oil, and I'll see ya at the 180k service! ------------------------------ From: Stephen Gunter Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 13:51:29 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1646 At 01:39 PM 9/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >CAN I HAVE A WEBSITE TO VIEW A PICTURE OF THE MRX?=20 > You need an entire site just to view a picture? well, since you need one that badly, geocities gives 2MB free. =DC If all you need is a url, try http://www.akina.ne.jp/~tony/ and follow the links..... Stephen Gunter,1990 Levin, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 =20 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing ------------------------------ From: "The Spicknell's" Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MR2 mk 1 Does anyone have 4 round center hubcaps for 1985-? mr2 alloy wheels? Thanks T. Spicknell ------------------------------ From: Tony McDaid Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 06:51:13 +0000 Subject: MR2 Re: MRX PICS > my first impression of the MRX is that it looks like a Porsche Boxter. That > why most people would say again that japanese can only copy cars. That may be generally true but not always. If it were, where did them RAV4 come from?!?!? Also in Japan there are some wild looking K-cars (really small cars). Later - -- Tony McDaid tony@akina.ne.jp http://www.akina.ne.jp/~tony/ `89 MkII Turbo T-Bar ------------------------------ From: Ltraviolnc@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Non-MR2 related but read it anyway :-) List, As somewhat of a computer novice, I need an opinion and/or suggestions from the more web-advanced members of the list. I'm planning on buying a scanner soon and have pretty much no clue what I'm looking for. I noticed that most units seem to be around the three to four hundred dollar range, so price is'nt a real big concern. As far as application goes, right now I want it for attaching photos to mail and maybe some desktop publishing chores; Then, later on for webpage creation and such. Most documents used will be 35mm generated photos and some magazine stuff. I want something reliable and quality performance and would prefer something that won't be obsolete in six months (if thats an issue with scanners). If it matters, I have a Sony PC with 200mhz Pentium, 32mb ram, 3.8gb hard drive, 2mb video, 16x cd, full multimedia, 17" monitor, HP deskjet, & all the usual toys/junk that goes with it (and alot of system resources free). Any recomendations, ideas, suggestions, experiences, etc from scanner users/owners would be greatly appreciated. And if you recomend a particular model, can you tell me where it can be bought at a decent price? Sorry for the waste of bandwidth on non-MR2 content, but I don't know who else to ask. PLEASE respond privately to not further tie up the list with this and to avoid a war over what scanner is superior...it could go on for months :-) Thanks in advance, Ron 87MR2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com ps: can I get away with just buying a scanner or do I ICQ: 3087083 need all kinds of other junk to use it right? ------------------------------ From: lzeunen@epix.net Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:58:57 -0400 Subject: MR2 parts Hey all- I'm ready for a few more parts for my 1988 SC. I've ordered from NOPI without any problems but I have heard so many bad things I've decided not to order from them again. Where are you guys buying your parts? Also I'm planning on attending the Bear Mt trip on October 12. Anyone else from Northeast or Central PA that thinks they might like to go drop me a line and we will meet and travel in together. My place is about 125 miles due east of the Hudson Valley area. email privatley please - -- Lenn Z 96 Grand Cherokee V8 American Express Financial Advisor 88 Toyota MR2 supercharged lzeunen@epix.net 86 Buick Grand National www.epix.net/~lzeunen 77 Jeep Cherokee Chief 69 Chevelle Find me on ICQ at #2994781 66 Chevy II ------------------------------ From: "Steve Hoult" Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:37:55 -0700 Subject: Re: MR2 Problems with SCC > Has anyone else had problems with their Sport Compact Car subscription? > My November issue never showed up, so I ended up buying it at the local > bookstore. My October issue showed up about a week after I saw it at > the same bookstore. I just got my November issue about 6 days ago. BTW, did anyone esle notice they didn't say a word about blowing up the engine after last months trials? Steve Hoult '89 SC (Tag - MR2QWK) ------------------------------ From: Mark Sink Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 21:40:48 -0700 Subject: Re: the "riceboy" MR2 Adarsh Carter wrote: > > First off, though it may be a matter of taste, the car looks terrible. > However, the author of the page doesn't seem to know a whole lot about > MR2s (e.g., "a typical Rice Boy car; in this case a 91-93 MR2" or "NOT > even turbocharged!"). > > It's true that the owner may have screwed it up to some degree (with the > wheels -- especially the wheels), but the fact remains that he owns an > MR2. In other words, it could be worse. > > Just before I left New Hampshire, I noticed some kid had acquired a > brand new Neon -- white, with a big fat, red racing stripe and bright > yellow fog lamps (which apparently could not be turned off). Back in > Delhi, I've seen racing stripes on Maruti 800s (which are essentially > six foot long, three cylinder Suzukis). > > Let's just hope that boy racer hasn't done too much damage to his '2. > With some TLC (and a good hair dryer) it can probably be restored to its > former glory. > -- > Adarsh > '91 MR2 NA; Durham, NC I visited the RiceBoy pages posted earlier. The authors never mentioned what THEY drive, or showed pictures of what a Civic "SHOULD" look like. Basically, I didn't find it at all amusing. What's the big deal? Working on cars has always been a combination of style, hobby, art, sport, money pit, etc. I don't see anyone making fun of folks who spend $5000+ on a boomin' system. They kept refering to "50HP stickers" Who ever claimed the stickers made the car go faster? What's wrong with putting big tips on a N/A MR2? If all I could afford was a Civic, I'd certainly change it's looks as money became available, and I think that's all these folks are doing. As for the MR2 with different wheels. You have no idea what it's going on there. He may have damaged a rear wheel, and picked up a set, and has the others on order, you just don't know. How would you feel if someone took a picture of your car on a bad day, and dedicated a web page to it, based on THAT day. I say give the RiceBoys a break, and stick to picking on the rednecks. Mark Sink - ----------- http://toy4two.home.mindspring.com/ Modified '87 MR2 & '93 MR2 Turbo ------------------------------ From: Kerry Wood <70544.670@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:52:45 +0100 Subject: MR2 MkII TRD Strut Brace_Greddy IC Hello All: A number of you have expressed interest in utilizing both the Greddy intercooler and the rear TRD strut tower brace bar upgrades, only to find that the Greddy tube (the one w/ the extra injector ports on it) connecting the intercooler to the throttle body conflicts w/ the TRD brace. To solve this problem, I have had a custom connector tube fabricated that will allow use of both the TRD brace and the Greddy intercooler. This custom tube has been fabricated in both stainless steel and mild steel. In both materials, the finished product is made from three 90 degree 2 1/4" dia. mandrel bends cut, fit and TIG welded to form the overall tube. (Note that the inside radii of the bend must be 3" in order to make the correct finished tube curvature.) Each end of the tube is swedged out to approx. 2 3/8" to fit the connectors provided by Greddy. The fabricated tube is then sent to Jet-Hot, coated outside in their flat finish blue/inside in their flat finish white. Both inside and outside coatings are 1300 deg. ceramic. The final product looks better than the Greddy tube, will not rust on the inside like the Greddy tube and provides approx. 1/2" clearance between it and surrounding engine components, including the TRD brace. Since the tube does not have a clamp bead, two stainless clamps should be used to secure it to the Greddy connectors. I have had jigs and templates made to assure consistent reproduction of proper configuration for each tube fabricated and I now offer this tube to all who are interested. Stainless steel is offered at an approx. cost of $245.00 U.S. plus shipping to your area. The approx. cost is based on the assumption that I can obtain the stainless at a better rate than Borla. If forced to use Borla, the cost will run close to $300. Mild steel is offered at a cost of $170.00 U.S. plus shipping to your area. I have found a consistent supplier for mild steel mandrel bends w/ a 3" inside radius. Please make all inquiries direct to me at 70544.670@compuserve.com. Photos of the installation on my car are available on request. You may also want to check w/ Byron Johnson who has recently installed one of these tubes. Kerry Wood '93T black witch ------------------------------ From: Kerry Wood <70544.670@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:52:55 +0100 Subject: MR2 MkII Engine Miss Solved Hello All, As some of you know, I have been dealing w/ a consistent and insidious miss in my '93T for the past 6 months. The problems have now been solved and I post the solutions to the list in hopes that they will prove helpful to some of you. The problem symptoms were these: * At load and under any boost, the engine would seriously miss/stutter/almost die between engine speeds of 2200 and 3600 rpm. After that rpm, the engine would run normally. * At no-load cruise, the engine would surge regardless of speed. * Sitting in the drive, running the engine up would show a miss starting at abt 1800 rpm which would die out to reappear at 2200, 2400, 2800 and 3400 rpm. The miss under these conditions would disappear above 3600. The BGB listing of probable causes produced little or no resolution for the problem. The Toyota SST "black box" showed all systems to be functioning normally. (As it turns out, the "black box" is not fast enough to recognize the problem, or as it turned out, problems - Charles, you were right on this issue.) After looking at all aspects of the electrical system, replacing a number of parts to include cap, rotor, plugs, ht wires, igniter, coil, distributor and finally the entire engine room wiring harness, the just sitting there in the drive, no-load miss was cured. The actual cause of this problem was the wiring harness which showed evidence of water entry and resultant corrosion of splices and shielding. When the harness was replaced, I cut the old one open for inspection and found that the harness is, at best, a very shoddy piece of work. Wire is simply stuffed in the covering willy-nilly. If there was too much wire in an individual circuit, it was not trimmed but rather bunched up and made to fit in the wrapping. Portions of the wiring were thus crimped to the point of breakage. Shielding was cut short on most shielded circuits so that RF interference was more than just a potential problem. The shielding ground runs were spread out all over the place, numerous individual strands literally broken as a result. Splices were poorly done - a tinned strip crimped over the wires and sloppily wrapped in tape. While replacing the wiring harness solved the no-load miss, it did not take care of the miss-under-load/boost. In running various tests, I had noted a vibration noise at approximately 1800 rpm, but initially could not find its source. In taking various parts off, I pulled the BOV return tube off and put it back on so that it did not touch the BOV body. At that point, I noted that the BOV was the source of the vibrating and was chattering until engine speed reached the 3600-3800 rpm mark. The return tube had been transferring the noise into the intake so that it was not possible to find the true source. As to specifics, the factory BOV is not supposed to vibrate or chatter. If you will note, the valve is, in fact, 6 parts. A top w/ a larger vacuum tube fitting, a lower body w/ a smaller vacuum tube fitting, an inner lower body, a diaphram or daiphrams sandwiched between the top, the lower body and inner lower body and the valve itself consisting of a rod and valve stop. If you apply vacuum to the top fitting, the valve opens; if you apply vacuum to the lower fitting the valve closes. If more than 5"hg is applied to either fitting, the valve should either open or close so tightly that no vibration can occur. In the case of my valve, this would occur only on the top fitting, while the lower fitting vacuum reading would simply fall-off to 0 if 5 - 6"hg was applied. If approx. 22"hg (normal vacuum for my engine running w/ throttle closed) was applied, the gage reading would very slowly drop off to 6"hg and then rapidly fall-off to 0. What was happening, in essence, was a rapid variation in actual vs. measured intake air as the BOV chattered slightly open and then fully closed. The MAF measured a given air mass, but that mass did not get to the combustion chamber which resulted in an overrich mixture since the PCME was matching measured air mass to injector pulse. The overrich mixture apparently caused the ignition spark to momentarily snuff out resulting in the miss. I should have picked up on this when I found that the cooler-than-stock Autolite plugs were black, sooty and somewhat wet, but I didn't. What is interesting is that the stock plugs looked normal under these conditions. Also interesting that the 02 sensor didn't show a rich condition. Probably it is simply too slow to react. The BOV was replaced and the miss-under-load/boost problem is no longer there. Thanks to all of you who have offered advice and support during the past 6 months. Kerry Wood '93T black witch ------------------------------ From: Kerry Wood <70544.670@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 20:53:05 +0100 Subject: MR2 MkII Knock Sensor Test FWIW, there is no test for the knock sensor, it either works or it "don't." In general, the problem related to knock sensor failure is water infiltration between the body of the sensor and the "innards." This can be cured by wrapping just the threaded stud w/ teflon tape, thereby sealing the block opening. As it turns out, the sensor is extremely sensitive to installed torque - if I remember correctly, the spec is 27 ft/lbs - no more, no less. The sensor is located on the block as reported, just below and to the right side of the intake runner. You have to remove the turbo VSV to get it out. Takes a deep well socket, SAE size, but I can't remember what size that is. As I remember, the sensor is grounded to the block (you can check this w/ a multimeter), has a single shielded wire running directly to the KNK tap on the PCME. Shielding grounds to the E-17 splice in the harness. If you remove the sensor and tap it, it will produce voltage that is readable w/ a multimeter. Actually there are two different types used on the US MR2 depending on what model year. The first type produces voltage only at the 7 khz oscilation range which is interpreted as "knock", while the second produces voltage above and below that range but still is interpreted as "knock" only in the 7 khz range. I haven't been able to find out what voltages correspond to what oscillation. Depending upon which PCME/ECU is on the car, you may have either one. My '93T, production date 01/93, has the latter type. In the case of the latter, the PCME ignores the voltages above and below "knock" but must have the above and below voltages to ignore. If these are not present, sensor failure is assumed by the PCME, a code is set and timing is severely retarded. In the case of the former, you can remove the sensor, run a ground to the block and let the sensor hang suspended. Of course, if the engine is knocking (not just light "pinging"), timing is not retarded and engine damage can result. So, please be careful if you try this Hope this helps. Kerry Wood '93T black witch ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #1647