mr2-digest Monday, 20 October 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1729 MR2.....J...X...S Re: MR2.....J...X...S RE :MR2 MKII Upgrade questions Re: MR2 Mk1 5th gear problem (again!) MR2 Re: Water Wetter, how and why MR2 re: water wetter, what is it. Re: MR2 MK1: E51 LSD Gearbox going into a 89 MK1 NA...More questions. MR2 Re: MK1: (part2)E51 LSD Gearbox going into a 89 MK1 NA...More questions. Re: MR2...J...X...S? MR2 More info on the Tom's scoop Re: MR2 Re: MK1: (part2)E51 LSD Gearbox going into a 89 MK1 NA...More questions. MR2 FS 1988 MR-2 Supercharged MR2 LOOK WHAT I GOT FROM THE COPS !!!! MR2 MK1 trannies MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1728 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: thomas oneill Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:51:20 +0100 Subject: MR2.....J...X...S Hi all Is it just me or does their seem to be a competition going on between Honda and Toyota to see who can design the most ugly set of headlights . First of all Honda set the pace with the headlights for the new Civic and Prelude ( the european versions anyway I don't know if the US versions are different ) but I think Toyota has just won the competition with those on the MRS , what are they thinking of . The wing mirrors are some what on the dodgy side as well , the rest of the car I could live with . Just hope the production version changes these , or my MK1 could be around alot longer than I thought . Then again there is always the Lotus Elise ??????? Thomas O'Neill E-Mail: tom@funcom.ie Funcom Dublin Ltd. Phone: +353 1 283-8100 Ireland Fax: +353 1 283-9256 ------------------------------ From: Jamie Dennis Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:33:33 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2.....J...X...S I think the car looks like a box from the side. From the nose to tail, just straight lines - no curves (or angles, for that matter)! I'm trying to figure out what it looks like (from the side), and can't. I'm thinking maybe new Beetle or some Audi or other... - -Jamie Dennis thomas oneill wrote: > > Hi all > Is it just me or does their seem to be a competition going on between > Honda and Toyota to see who can design the most ugly set of headlights . > First of all Honda set the pace with the headlights for the new Civic and > Prelude > ( the european versions anyway I don't know if the US versions are different > ) but I think Toyota has just won the competition with those on the MRS , > what are they thinking of . The wing mirrors are some what on the dodgy side > as well , the rest of the car I could live with . Just hope the production > version changes these , or my MK1 could be around alot longer than I thought > . Then again there is always the Lotus Elise ??????? > Thomas O'Neill E-Mail: tom@funcom.ie > > Funcom Dublin Ltd. Phone: +353 1 283-8100 > Ireland Fax: +353 1 283-9256 > > - -- Misspellers of the world untie! ------------------------------ From: jw Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:13:39 +1000 Subject: RE :MR2 MKII Upgrade questions Hi, Before any mods to your engine, make sure that the engine is in tip top condition. New oil, coolant, make sure the thermostat is working properly, brakes, suspension, check clutch, ignition and check the timing belt and the stock timing. You can run the Mr2 up to about 12 psi before hitting fuel cut. If you want to run 15 psi you would need a fuel cut defender. You should look into getting a free flowing intake and exhuast system. Try getting a exhaust system which uses mandrel bend tubes. Get rid of the cat if possible without breaking any laws. You may want to get an upgraded intercooler. I choose to make a water injection unit instead of getting a new intercooler, since a high flow intercooler cost way too much( about $1500.00 AUD). The water/metho injection system cost less than $50.00. Which does the same thing. All you need to do is keep an eye on the water level. I run my system up to a maximum 1.3 bar which is 19PSI. My system has a high flow/rebuilt stock turbo and full 3inch stanless steel mandrel bend exhaust system. I also run a 5th injection unit with a separate fuel pump and tank. I run 50% toluene and 50% fuel. The toluene acts as octane booster. I haven't any 1/4 mile runs, or dyno runs after the mods. But if I put the boost back to stock settings the car feels like a NA version. I know that as soon as the 5th injection comes alive, it feels like it has a small NOS kit. The car pulls even more at above 5000rpm. What really matters is that the car will give you an instant grin as you bury your right foot into the floor. > Hi, My 91 MKII still without any modifications, soon I will >upgrade >it with a manual Boost Controller (Variable Boost Controller), Intake >and >Exhaust systems. With that mods, how much PSI can I set to get more >HP?, >somebody told me 12 PSI, but maybe I can set it to 14 or 15 PSI, >without any >other modification. If I set it to 12 PSI, how many Horse Power I will >gain >aproximately?, and what's the estimated time in 1/4 mille?. > Other question... a blow-off valve can improve 1/4 mille times? >or >that product is only protects the life of the turbo?. > > Thank you > > Arturo >Makino Miura > Red 91 T ------------------------------ From: Ltraviolnc@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MR2 Mk1 5th gear problem (again!) In a message dated 97-10-20 03:41:50 EDT, neil.maitland@anitesystems.com writes: > It appears that my '88 MR2 has decided to follow the example set by many > others and at 110,000 miles is now refusing to stay in 5th gear. Last > week it jumped out once or twice on the motorway when I eased of the > power then back on again at around 60. Now it pops straight out of gear > all the time. It has only taken a few hundred miles from perfect to > useless. > > What's the general concensus on fixing it? Has anyone in the UK > successfully fixed it without buying a complete new gearbox? > > Please help. > > Neil > Ah, another victim of the 5th gear NIGHTMARE! I've said it many times before, so I'll say it again: when (and if) you figure it out, let me know. As a matter of fact, if ANYONE has actually FIXED a car with this nasty problem, and it stayed fixed, I'll PAY you for the solution!!! Why not, I've already wasted quite a bit of money on things that did'nt work. This way at least I can contribute to a list member instead of a parts counter. How does $25.00 US sound? And please, no speculation here about syncronizers and such. I (and others) tried this years ago when the problem first started and it does'nt work. I want someone who has really fixed it. I can't imagine that out of all the cars with this problem, not one was ever fixed. And I hear some MKII's are doing it now, too. So, the deal is: the first person (by the date & time posted) that suggests something I have'nt already done, and if it works, and after I drive the car HARD for....a week to see if it stays fixed will have a check in the mail. Then, I'll offer the solution to the list for free. Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com eyeseekyou: 3087083 PS: Neil, get used to having a sore thumb...this may take awhile. ------------------------------ From: "Burns, James B." Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:44:44 -0400 Subject: MR2 Re: Water Wetter, how and why It is my understanding that water wetter works by improving the laminar flow of coolant through your engine, thus helping to prevent localized boiling, plus it also improves the heat transfer capabilities of the coolant. It also helps prevents corrosion if you only use water as coolant (no antifreeze). Water actually transfers heat better than antifreeze, but you need the antifreeze to prevent freezing, boiling, and corrosion. I've heard that some racing teams use just distilled water and water wetter, but I certainly wouldn't recommend this in your street car. Your thermostat maintains your coolant temperature, so you shouldn't see any difference with water wetter unless your car has an overheating problem. The temperature gauges on my MKII Turbos always stayed just under the 1/2 mark, even in 100 degree weather driving up mountains with the A/C on. So I don't really see a need for it, although it might help prevent any localized hot spots. I had a bottle of Redline water wetter sitting around that was sent to me by mistake by a mail order company, so I dumped it in when I changed the coolant in my '91T, but I wouldn't have bought a bottle. What we're talking about here is Redline's Water Wetter product, which is specifically designed to go into your coolant system. I wouldn't put a K-mart garden product in my car unless I was sure that the chemical composition was identical. Brad Burns ------------------------------ From: "Miller, Bill [PRI]" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:00:40 -0400 Subject: MR2 re: water wetter, what is it. To the best of my knowledge, what goes on is that it reduces the surface tension of the water which lowers the tendency to form beads. It's kind of the opposite effect you get when you put Rain-X (no, I don't want to start THAT thread again!). Rain X lowers the surface energy of the windshield relative to the water, so it tends to form beads more. This lower energy is why the water just slides off at high speeds. Anyway, back to water wetter, the concept is to keep the water in a continuous file, rather than having it separate into droplets. This will help with the hot spot issue. What I've found in my 86 NA race car is that it helps reduce (if not eliminate) cavitation in the water pump at high rpm. The previous owner said that he found that if he ran the car at high rpm for very long (7500 +, 10-15 sec) that in a few laps, the temp gauge would shoot up from ~ 50% to well into the red. If the car was not stopped, it would over heat. The thought was that the water pump was causing the water to cavitate due to the high rpm. Once cavitated, it essentially became air bound and would not circulate the water, leading the increased temp thing. That is the best reason that I can think of for using it. my $0.02 Bill ------------------------------ From: Steve Bagdon Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:38:41 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 MK1: E51 LSD Gearbox going into a 89 MK1 NA...More questions. Robin San wrote: > > Hi guys > > Ive finally found my SC gearbox with LSD to put into my 89 MK1 NA. The > deal was for Aus$800 I would get the box, drive shafts, flywheel if I > needed one and no mounting brackets. Clutch will probably be a rebuilt > SC clutch, later down the track. Yes, you'll need the clutch. If you change gearboxes, you'll need *everything* from the flywheel to the driveshafts. Don't forget the shift linkages and speedo cable. > Can I confirm, how do I tell if the box has a LSD, I did the, stick 2 > drive shafts into it and turn thing. I remember there was a way to tell > if the box had a LSD by the GB number....where is this number found? If you have access to the original VIN plate (front trunk), such as if the car body is still in the yard, ask for the axle (*NOT* tranny) code. Should be something like 73x or 74x. If the last digit is odd the tranny is LSD, if the last digit is even the tranny is non-LSD. > Is there anything else I should consider before starting to to put the > box in. Should I rebuild the box before putting it in, maybe new > syncros, bearings etc.... how much would that cost? A lot. > Also does anyone know what the final drive ratio of the SC E51 is? what > is the final drive of the C52 NA box? I was told the E51 had a taller > final drive but not that much taller. If I wanted to lower the final > drive ratio where could I get a crown pinion from, any other toyota > models? This is the same gearbox as the NA MK2 right? I might be able to > get it off a MK2 race car if thats the case. Go to Matti's page. It's all there. Steve B. ------------------------------ From: Steve Bagdon Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:38:39 -0400 Subject: MR2 Re: MK1: (part2)E51 LSD Gearbox going into a 89 MK1 NA...More questions. Robin San wrote: > > Hi again guys > > I have just got a few more questions on the gearbox transplant. > > I was told that the speedo cable is different on the E51 and the C52, > would it be possible to run my current C52 speedo cable with the E51 > box. I had a look and the square drive looks the same and I think the > cable should reach the drive output. Using the E51 box should'nt make my > speedo anyless inaccurate should it? Do you really want to find out? Just replace the darn thing. > Also, coolant lines run into the gearbox right? are the coolant in and > out lines in the same place on the E51 and the C52 tranny? They don't run into the gear box - the thermostat and input/output housing is bolted *to* the top of the tranny, as well as a few other things (a ground wire for one). All that stuff is very compatible, don't fret it. If it interfaces *into* the gearbox (shift linkage cables, speedo cable, reverse light switch, drive shafts, mounting hardware, etc) fret it, if it bolts *to* the gearbox (thermostat housing, etc), don't fret it. > I found out the final drive ratio of the C52(4.325) and E51(4.285). Are > the gear ratios the same? Assuming the gear ratios are the same, would > the slightly higher final drive make a noticeable decrease in > performance or is the difference only marginal? Did you visit Matti's page? I'm very happy running a C-52 tranny with my 4A-GZE. The C-52 is supposed to be geared a little bit lower (less power), and it really makes the 4A-GZE a stop-light bandit. Steve B. ------------------------------ From: "David J. Kessler" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:21:45 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2...J...X...S? On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Tony McDaid wrote: > Just got another mag with a preview of the Tokyo Motor Show. Yet more photos > of the new 2 seater- however this time it is called the 'MRS'. I've scanned a > lot in and put them on my web page as before. This times there are photos of > the inside too including a triptronic type gear ship- hope it comes as a > manual too:-) Thanks a bunch for the new pics! Whether you like the car or not, you've got to appreciate Tony's efforts to keep us up to date. Keep up the good work Tony! It's great having a "spy" in the land of the rising sun :-) I think I'm in the minority on this but I'm really getting excited about this car. I actually like the Porche-esqe styling (though some of the angles could stand rounding). And as far as how it will look with the top up, the answer is ugly. Lets face it, all convertables (including the Z3 and the Boxster) look ugly with the top up. Who's going to leave the top up? Ignore the sheet metal for a minute and look at where the wheels, driver, and engine are located. Now think about how it's going to drive. Wow! If Toyota can keep their promise (900kg, 170hp, <$20K) I'll be first on my dealer's waiting list :-) - Dave Kessler dkessler@acm.org White '91 MR2 Turbo Silver '97 Z3 2.8l ------------------------------ From: "Ardell L. Simon" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:33:45 -0400 Subject: MR2 More info on the Tom's scoop O.K. it seems that I have enough people to set up the discount. I'll call Jomar back and set it up. I'll post on how to take advantage of the discount on the scoop. This discount should be availble all the time after the intitial order. We just needed five to get it started, and I think I got that man yes's. Jeff F ------------------------------ From: Robin San Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 00:33:29 +1100 Subject: Re: MR2 Re: MK1: (part2)E51 LSD Gearbox going into a 89 MK1 NA...More questions. > I'm very happy running a C-52 tranny with my 4A-GZE. The C-52 is supposed to be > geared a little bit lower (less power), and it really makes the 4A-GZE a > stop-light bandit. Hi guys Steve is right, I worked out the max speeds at 7600 rpm with each tranny and first and second gear is about the same, the 3rd gear in the E51 is alot taller so is 4th and 5th. So I really need to find a lower final drive for the E51 tranny (4.29:1), anyone have any ideas? Thanks Robin 89 MK1 NA ------------------------------ From: John Tisak Date: Mon, 20 Oct 97 10:13:26 EDT Subject: MR2 FS 1988 MR-2 Supercharged I am selling my 1988 Toyota MR-2 Supercharged, T-roof. Includes: Fuel injected, leather interior, cruise control, power windows, doors, and mirror, air conditioning, and AM/FM stereo radio with cassette player and 5-speakers. Red and black interior, Excellent condition. 135,000 miles. New muffler, brakes, and clutch. All scheduled maintence performed. Original cost: $19,923 in 1988 Asking: $3,500/offer. Selling because wife wants a Jeep for the winter weather :-( John Tisak INTERNET: jtisak@trapper.bgsu.edu Department of Psychology FAX: (419) 372-6013 Bowling Green State University Office: (419) 372-2246 Bowling Green, Ohio 43403-0228 Department: (419) 372-2301 ------------------------------ From: psmith@mofo.com (Smith, Patrick E.) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:34:09 -0700 Subject: MR2 LOOK WHAT I GOT FROM THE COPS !!!! - --MimeMultipartBoundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" HI For those of you who don't know me or new to the list, i help run the Southern California Rallies. Look what i got over the weekend, could it be ?? or just a joke?? Does CHP have a person who looks for this kind of stuff??? Patrick Smith 93 NA BLK TT CAL "QCK MR2" 77k http://www.isi.edu/~marsh/qckmr2.html ---------- From: FandSinOC To: Smith, Patrick E. Subject: Mr2 rally Date: October 17, 1997 10:11PM hello sir: This is the California Highway Patrol. We are awared of your rally to be held on Oct 19. We will be monitoring your activities on the Angeles Crest Highway. Please keep your speed down. have a safe drive have fun - --MimeMultipartBoundary-- ------------------------------ From: davemccr@uvic.ca (Dave McCristall) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:24:47 -0800 Subject: MR2 MK1 trannies I've kust replaced my 86's tranny with one from an 89. It was basically a direct swap except that the 89 tranny has 2 srarter bumps. is this right? It made the water pipe on that runs along the back of the engine to rub on the starter bump causing a leak. there is also a 4inch by 1 inch gap towards the rear of the bell housing. Could someone with a 88 or 89 confirm that there are 2 starter bumps ? After installation it has been discovered that the "new" used trannys second gear is shot. Back to the drawing board. TIA Dave McCristall 86 MR2 Victoria B.C. Canada 250-475-9221 ------------------------------ From: "N. Blumberg" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:29:49 -0700 Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1728 Hiya, It's been awhile since I've posted... I moved down to Santa Cruz for college. Anyway, I installed my turbonetics boost controller, and I'm halfway done with installing my boost guage. I havn't gotten there yet, but I was wondering.... How do I remove the A-pillar to bolt on the cup? Anyway, thanks for the help :) BYE! -Nathan cm2@cats.ucsc.edu ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #1729