mr2-digest Thursday, 27 November 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1918 MR2 Prices MR2 MK1 timing belt breakage? Re: MR2 more info on the wrecked 93 MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1913 Re: MR2 MKII Heel & Toe MR2 Geoff Seeley MR2 coolant light Re: MR2 Re: exotic car values... MR2 Mk1 leaky T-tops Re: MR2 Detroit gathering... MR2 unstable / "squirrelly" 91T at high speeds Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt breakage? Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt breakage? Re: MR2 unstable / "squirrelly" 91T at high speeds Re: MR2 RE : What the hell is wrong with these people??? Re: MR2 more crash stuff part3 Re: MR2 IC pre-cooling for drag racing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris King" Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:02:55 -0600 Subject: MR2 Prices Just when you guys thought MR2's were as cheap as they were gonna get, take a look at this new ad I found: 1991 Red/Black Int. MR2 Normally Aspirated - Ad placed Wednesday, November 26, 1997 EST VIN: JT2SW21M9M0814126 Features: Auto,Sunroof Modifications: Blk Tinted Windows Mileage: 53,346 Miles Asking Price: $ 6000.00 or Offers Comments: Like my porsche better Contact: Mike Warner - Racine,OH. U.S.A Email: michaele@eurekanet.com Phone Number: (614) 949-2874 Unbelievable! Chris K. 91 NA ------------------------------ From: Todd Clark Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:05:45 -0800 Subject: MR2 MK1 timing belt breakage? I am asking this simply out of curiosity, as I have not been able to find a definitive answer anywhere else. If the timing belt breaks on a stock 4A-GZE (SC) engine, will the valves hit the pistons? Some people have told me that the engine will be damaged and others have said that no damage will occur. So I figured that I would ask the most MR2 knowledgeable group of people in the world :) Which is it, damage, or no damage. Thanks, Todd Clark 88 Red SC MR2 (no name yet) 95 Kawasaki Ninja 500 (Joanne) 95 Saturn SL2 (Novell) 88 Nissan Pathfinder (Articat) ------------------------------ From: alain@voicenet.com Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 03:36:31 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 more info on the wrecked 93 Today I was graced at work by a visit from Jeff F... He was bearing pictures of his wrecked 93T...after seeing the pictures, I am quite honestly suprised to see that he is even alive. The right rear of the car is all but gone. It looks like the deklid smashed THRU the rear window (not sure if it did, but it looks it). Not a pretty site at all. I have 3 pictures right here ready to go into the scanner, hopefully Jeff will get them up soon. I would also like to point out that Jeff is downplaying the physical pain that he has must be going thru...I saw the bloodstains on his jacket, and was ever so pleased when he decided I should see his stitches (ugh). I also understand that he blacked out multiple times after the accident. My prayers go out to Jeff for a speedy recovery. Hopefully soon enough he'll get some sort of settlement and get back into an MR2. On a side note...how exactly do you run into the back of a stopped car at 60+mph? I can't understand it...even if you have never driven before, you know where the brake pedal is... Allen Herbst 93NA 67k km ------------------------------ From: einigma@totacc.com (Roger Prior) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:55:17 -0700 Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #1913 >From: Patrick Smith >Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:08:01 -0800 >Subject: MR2 93 T Destroyed = Jeff F > >> >> ------------------------------ >WOW , what can you say >Just bad luck, sorry to hear it. maybe you should think about getting a >Hummer , or M1 tank. I'm not joking, i had a friend who was hit like 2 >times a month for a year, he got a big 1 ton puck up and has had good luck >past that point. I would go nuts....... take care and glad to hear your >ok..... Maybe the best choice is to have a M1 tank. A 1 ton pick up is big, but not as big as a 15-ton dump truck. That poor 9 passenger Ford van didnt have a chance against it. Roger 89SC ------------------------------ From: Mark Bosma Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 06:22:16 -0800 Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Heel & Toe I have long suffered the same problem.. although my SW20 (MkII) is better than the previous AW11. What works for me is: About a second before you intend to brake, dab the brake lightly with your right foot (to feel it's height and position). Then position your foot over the brake so the pedal is very slightly to the left of centre of the ball of your foot (the dab helps you set this up). Squeeze on the brake, and when ready to heal-toe, roll your right foot to the right of the pedal, keeping the same amount of pressure on the brake. As you do this, the right edge of your shoe will contact the throttle pedal (gas pedal if you are driving in America). Practice this again and again (when it is safe to do so of course), and before long the motion will be enough to poke the revs up to match the next gear speed. Of course, while all this action is going on, the other foot is timing the clutch work just right. With practice, it will just start to happen. mb Dean M. Fujita wrote: > > > > >Reply-To: "Jack Kramer" > > > >I recently went to a high performance driving school sponsored by Car Guys > >and got to drive my MR2 like it was intended to be driven. What a blast! > > > >The classroom instructor described the heel & toe pocess for simultaneous > >braking and downshifting. I've been practicing, but I am having difficulty > >rolling my foot off the brake to blip the throttle. I have size 12 feet, > >but I can't seem to reach the accelerator with the side of my foot. Do I > >need to modify the pedal configuration or am I doing something wrong? > > > I've always had a problem with this in my car. The gas pedal is not on the > same plane as my clutch and brakes (Almost an inch lower). All the pedals > work fine and the free-play is within specs. Is this normal, is there away > to adjust the height of the pedals? > > Dean > '93T - -- Mark Bosma Int ph/fax: 61-47-392114 embee@zeta.org.au Aus ph/fax: (02) 47392114 Mount Riverview, New South Wales mob: 019654973 Australia VK6QI/2 ,-._|\ PO Box 408 ,-._|\ / \ EAST BLAXLAND NSW 2774 / \ \_,--._/ AUSTRALIA \_,--._/ v v ELINT from far far away: "Very funny Scottie! Now beam down my clothes". Hey, who is this General Failure guy? And what is he doing reading my hard drive anyway? ------------------------------ From: ClarkAttack Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:53:10 -0500 Subject: MR2 Geoff Seeley I apologize in advance for using the digest in this instance, but one can only take so much frustration on Thanksgiving :) Geoff- I've been trying to send you the info from our Birmingham rally, and that fortress you call a mail filter won't let my messages through. ;) I've tried several times from different email addresses to no avail. How can I get this info to you?? Would it help if I just attached it as a Word file or something??? Once again, sorry for wasting digest bandwidth on this, but none of my messages can get through to Geoff :( Michelle Clark mclark@writeme.com ICQ#4426203 ------------------------------ From: MR2Turbo91 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:33:55 EST Subject: MR2 coolant light hello all. recently, my cooling light came on in my MKII Turbo. my coolant level is fine, I have no air in the system, a bottle of water wetter, coolant that is 3 months old, and my temp gauge is normal. Normally I would just replace the sensor that controls the light and be done with it, as what I described above indicates a faulty sensor, but here's what's keeping me from doing just that, when I make a left turn, the light goes out, and stays out for about 2 minutes. I have checked and double checked my system for air, and my coolant level is right on... if it was a faulty sensor, why would it go out on left turns only??? what's wrong with my car???? Thanks in advance.... Austin T ------------------------------ From: momosc@sasquatch.com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:34:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: MR2 Re: exotic car values... > >30k, I am not too sure about the 60k. These cars will appricate, just > >give them time, everything goes in cycles No they won't > > > It's either the Testarossa or Mondal Convertible for me... > > Steve B. > TR's aren't bad, but theyre big and unwieldy. I recall days when I drove them and was happy to get back in my MR2. The Mondial Cab is in actuality a terrible car. It is an overwight, underpowered (even in 3.2 liter form), and has a horribly flexible chassis. I have yet to experience one whose top (a Rube Goldberg affair) really worked. The best contemporary Ferraris I drove were the 288 GTO, the F-40 ( a religious experience!), but the best Ferrari built is the F355. Mo ------------------------------ From: momosc@sasquatch.com Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 00:19:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: MR2 Mk1 leaky T-tops Hi After trying several homemade remedies to cure the leaks from the T-tops (none of which worked), I went ahead and replaced the driver's side top. That didn't work either, so I got the OEM weatherstripping that runs up the A-pillar, around the T-top opening and down the B-pillar, and had that repaced on both sides. Last night it rained buckets and I was anxious to see if there were any puddles in my seats this AM. THERE WEREN'T! The process wasn't cheap, but it sure feels great to have a weathertight Mk1 again. Conclusions: Relace the weatherstripping first. I still have the orig T-top on passenger side and it's sealing against the new rubber fine. Also I feel it's important to use an older style craftsperson to do this kinda work as opposed to a new chain windshield place. Mo ------------------------------ From: bluemr2@juno.com Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:45:09 EST Subject: Re: MR2 Detroit gathering... Not everyone is far away, I live in Toledo and drive through/near Detroit quite often. So if you see a Dark Blue '91 NA go by up there, it might be me. I have heard rumors that there is at least one more MR2 in the Toledo area :-) but as of yet they are unconfirmed :-) :-) Brian '91 MR2 NA no fancy license "tagline" no racing stripes just OEM tires steel wheels with 5-spoke wheelcovers (yes 5, not 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, the downside is that Detroit is probably about 6-8 hours driving from the closest point of New York. I just know that Aly and Scott will be in town this weekend, and most of the Detroit MR2 people will be out of town (the smart ones!). Detroit is in the middle of nowhere, and there are no MR2 people here *usually* (unless they are visiting). Chicago is 6 hours away (I-94), New York state is about 6-8 hours away (through Canada), Cincinnati is about 5 hours away (I-75), etc. Toronto is about 3 hours away, and Montreal probably about 6 hous away. I'm in the middle of nowhere... :( ------------------------------ From: "Luke Kolin" Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:00:46 -0500 Subject: MR2 unstable / "squirrelly" 91T at high speeds One of the greatest disappointments of my recently purchased 91T has been its IMO poor handling at high speeds. Once I get the speed about 140km/h (~90mph for the metrically challenged) the steering wheel practically floats in my hands and the car starts wandering around the road. Needless to say, at 100mph plus this is NOT good for my anxiety level. My concern is increased by the fact that my last car was a 1990 Celica GT, and my fiancee drives a 1994 MX-3 V6 (the 1.8L six is a beautiful engine, I must add), neither of whom can approach the top speeds my 91T can do, but who stay planted in the lane like a rock at speeds up to 200km/h. (in the _automatic_ Celica, down a hill with a tailwind). On freeways in Toronto, I drive a speed that's "comfortable", and I find that I feel "I'm going too fast" in the MR2 at around 135km/h, whereas in the MX-3 I can do 155km/h before the engine noise tips me off that the OPP and my mother might not approve. My suspicion is an alignment problem (the car's used and I have yet to do one since I bought it), but before I shell out the cash I'd want to be sure. I've read in various Internet resources and used car guides about this kind of unstable behavior above 100 or so mph and I want to be sure that it'll get fixed if I shell out the cash. Many thanks! - -- Luke J. Kolin (KLJ-ORG) luke@oulton.com Oulton & Co. Technology Management 416-363-5408 372 Bay Street, #509 Toronto, Canada M5H 2W9 ------------------------------ From: "Steve Hoult" Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:20:16 -0600 Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt breakage? >I am asking this simply out of curiosity, as I have not been able to find a >definitive answer anywhere else. If the timing belt breaks on a stock >4A-GZE (SC) engine, will the valves hit the pistons? Some people have told >me that the engine will be damaged and others have said that no damage will >occur. So I figured that I would ask the most MR2 knowledgeable group of >people in the world :) Which is it, damage, or no damage. The 4AGZE is a non-interference design engine meaning that, no, there should be no damage. Steve Hoult '89 SC ------------------------------ From: Ltraviolnc@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:43:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt breakage? In a message dated 97-11-27 06:22:56 EST, tclark@wolfenet.com writes: > I am asking this simply out of curiosity, as I have not been able to find a > definitive answer anywhere else. If the timing belt breaks on a stock > 4A-GZE (SC) engine, will the valves hit the pistons? No. It's a non-inreferance combustion chamber design. Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com ICQ: 3087083 ------------------------------ From: Randy Chase Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:42:16 -0800 Subject: Re: MR2 unstable / "squirrelly" 91T at high speeds Luke Kolin wrote: > > One of the greatest disappointments of my recently purchased 91T has been > its IMO poor handling at high speeds. -snip- > My suspicion is an alignment problem (the car's used and I have yet to do > one since I bought it), but before I shell out the cash I'd want to be > sure. I would have to agree it's an alignment issue. My MR2 feels very stable at higher speeds (100mph+). A 4 wheel alignment (do not get only 2 wheels aligned) should run you the equivilent of $65us. You might take the opportunity to add some extra rear toe in while you are at it. If the car has never been aligned, it's due. Good tires and a good alignment are critical for cornering, evasive maneuvers, stopping, and high speed handling. Randy Chase '91 MR2 NA ------------------------------ From: Ltraviolnc@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 12:59:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: MR2 RE : What the hell is wrong with these people??? In a message dated 97-11-27 02:01:04 EST, lzeunen@epix.net writes: > You know guys you shouldn't knock what you don't have. I bought my > fiancee a Jeep grand Cherokee V8 Larado in July of last year. It has > every option except leather/moonroof and climate control. I drive this > on occasion when my job requires me from Tunkhannock Pa to Harrisburg Pa > for manditory company meetings. They ride nice/ have plenty of power/ > handle excellent in all conditions (I live in NE Pennsylvania - we get > terrible winters) and stop in very short notice (thanks to a very good > ABS system). I like it for a SUV...... > -- > > Lenn Z 96 Grand Cherokee V8 Yeah, but Lenn, I know you and I know you're not one of "them". But unfortunately, you don't represent the majority of SUV owners. Sadly, I also hail from the evil northeast and drive for a living, and I find the "majority" of SUV owners (2nd only to minivans) to be the worst on the road. Every winter I see countless overgrown station wagons flipped over, layed on their sides, run off the road, and crashed into things because the "majority" of people who buy them think that 4WD, ABS, and traction control can make up for the driving ability they lack. The famous statement I always hear from a new SUV owner is "I would never drive in this kind of weather before I had this vehicle..." That scares the hell out of me. Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com ICQ: 3087083 ------------------------------ From: Terry Carroll Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:25:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: MR2 more crash stuff part3 On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Ardell L. Simon wrote: > To all that have been following this: > > The guy who hit was driving a COMPANY vehicle and had an expired drivers > license. The vehicle was a 97 Ford F150 XL. I have pictures being scanned > of both vehicles. 2 tons compared to 1800lbs was no match. I faired off a > lot better against the wheels of the 18 wheeler this summer. > > I do have an attorney and I am planning on sueing. > > THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO SENT CONDOLENCES! I have the opposite problem from you: my engine's trashed, but the shell of the car is fine. My condolences to you, and I'm glad you're okay. I'm going to miss this list. On the legal aspect: not to preempt your attorney, but put a bug in his ear that you have two theories upon which to sue the company. The first and obvious one is that the employee was negligent, and the company is responsible for his negligence. If this guy had no license, though, and the company continued to let him drive, you have another potential direct claim against the company: that the company itself was negligent in allowing him to drive, or, if he has a bad record, in hiring him to drive. The nice thing about a claim like this is that it doesn't require a showing that the company is responsible for what the employee was doing (n case he was off on some detour to do something that wasn't company business). The claim is directly against the company for its actions; it doesn't go against the driver and bring in the company as a responsible party for the driver's actions. On the downside, a claim like this does require showing that the company itself had some fault that contributed to the accident, and the fact that the guy simply had no license is not a contribution, per se, especially if it just simply expired. But it's another bargaining chip. Your lawyer probably will have this covered, but I thought I'd mention it. Good luck. - -- Terry Carroll | Santa Clara, CA | carroll@tjc.com | Modell delendus est | ------------------------------ From: kasper@super.zippo.com (Kasper) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 18:33:17 GMT Subject: Re: MR2 IC pre-cooling for drag racing On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 09:34:50 +0800, you wrote: > > > > > >I have a water sprayer set-up on my intercooler. I have a custom >made water tank which tucks neatly into the rear right corner >of the boot. I then have two windscreen washer pumps hooked >to a pressure sensor on the intake system. > >As soon as I generate positive pressure the pumps starts and the >intercooler is treated to a fine mist spray. This acts similar to a >evaporative air conditioner. My new ECU has a intake charge >temperature sensor so I'll be able to measure the exact improvement >in a few weeks (hopefully). > >I'll let you all know! Paul,have you considered also injecting water *into* the intake charge? I have used this to very good effect on several tubo'd cars.It is a popular mod here in the UK.The complexity of the system can vary from a powerful headlamp washer pump(s) aka Ford Escort Cosworth,to a fully mapped system with pukka ,designed for the job ,pump. Best Regards, Chris Wilson (Gatesgarth Racing Developments) Gatley,Cheshire,UK http://www.maximum-bhp.u-net.com ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #1918