mr2-digest Monday, 30 September 1996 Volume 01 : Number 438 MR2 Odd acceleration problem MR2 Re: your mail MR2 re:mr2mkIIdo not use redline mtl 93 MR2 Turbo for sale Re: MR2 MkII : DO NOT USE Redline MTL! MR2 RE: larger SCers FW: MR2 RE: pizza MR2 Mk 1 engine ruined? MR2 Suspension Techniques MR2 Magnetic Oil Filters Re[2]: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel MR2 MKII Speaker Question RE: Re[2]: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel RE: MR2 MKII Speaker Question MR2 Redline MTL clarification RE: MR2 mkii turbo, lack of performance? RE: MR2 mkii turbo, lack of performance? Re: MR2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Dekorte Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 12:24:41 -0700 Subject: MR2 Odd acceleration problem When I accelerate, particularly in 2nd gear, the engine sometimes seems to go a bit slow, and then kick in at varying times. (This is not a turbo MR2) Is this consistant with just needing a tune up? 93 NA black TT MR2 Steve ------------------------------ From: Dan Barnes Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MR2 Re: your mail On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 david.cole@ukonline.co.uk wrote: > Ok all, > > I've just seen a bicycle do 203kph on a flat straight! They strapped some > type or rocket to it, and now have a world record! The rocket used a > chemical reaction - Hydrogen peroxide and some sort of black pellet (I > missed the name). Now, if I could only fit one of these to my NA mk1...... > but then again, can you imagine it kicking in on a corner... Ouch! > > > Dave > '89 mk1 NA (rocket propelled...?) I remember watching a bicycle speed record attempt on TV once where they had a chamber attached to the back of some high-horspower race car that dragged it through the air. Then the bicycle and rider travelled in the still air inside and just behind this chamber under the rider's power. I think they got darn near 150 mph. That would be a trip! Dan Barnes dabarnes@osiris.ac.hmc.edu Under the Smog MISTRS2 http://www2.hmc.edu/~dabarnes/carguy.html These are just opinions, and only my opinions. They may be wrong, so don't act on them in a way that could cost you lots of money without getting several others first. They aren't the opinions of my school or my employer. ------------------------------ From: Brian Palmer Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:45:07 -0700 Subject: MR2 re:mr2mkIIdo not use redline mtl John from Mr2 performance recomends the redline even though it doesnt' meet toyota's specs. He says the other choices are too slippery and don't reduce the notchiness which explains your comments on the castrol. He says that he's used it for a long time in many cars and never had a problem. Here's an excerpt from his company: Manual Transmission Lubricant: Ask any MR2 owner that knows "How do I make my MR2 shift better"? MTL(R) is the answer. Most gear oils, ATF's and motor oils are too slippery for proper synchro engagement - which causes gear clash when shifting. MTL(R)has a coefficient of friction which is perfect for rapid synchro engagement and allows high-speed upshifting and downshifting. Brian ------------------------------ From: Mark Yarger Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:42:28 -0400 Subject: 93 MR2 Turbo for sale I've been lurking on this group for sometime now and would like to thank the participants for the thoughtful and useful discussions on MR2's. A new house, an engagement, and other factors have led to the decision to sell my faithful MR2... So here it goes 1993 Red MR2 Turbo, T-Tops, LSD, CD, ABS, Tan leather interior, 27K, always garaged, loved and babied $18,500. The car inside and out is in mint condition, no dings, no dents, no problems. All stock, no mods. Approx 4K on new (all four) Yoko A022's. I'm in Jupiter, Fl (Near West Palm Beach, 90 minutes north of Miami) Contact myarger@gate.net or 561/748-5519 for more information. Mark myarger@gate.net ------------------------------ From: "Harry Wang" Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 12:40:03 PST Subject: Re: MR2 MkII : DO NOT USE Redline MTL! So which Redline product have people used in their MKII Turbo trannies? MTL or 75-90NS? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: MR2 MkII : DO NOT USE Redline MTL! Author: JHoSee@davd.com at SMTP Date: 09/30/1996 11:33 AM I've used Redline MTL in my Integra with great success. So naturally, when I read in the FAQ that Redline MTL or 75-90NS was fine for the tranny in the MkII I went in search of some. I only could find MTL locally. So I was about to put it in, when I decided to read the print before I did so. It said specifically that MTL was NOT intended for use on RWD cars. In addition, it is rated only as API GL 2, 3, and 4. The Toyota owner's manual specifically requires API GL-5 fluid. So I bought some Castrol Synthetic 75-90 API GL-5 gear oil. The shifter moves a little smoother now, but it's still a notchy 2nd gear. :P I attribute that to the transmission design. - - Jeffrey ------------------------------ From: Adrienne Mora Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 08:08:00 NZS Subject: MR2 RE: larger SCers > I've seen all this talk about fitting larger superchargers. Has > anyone considered or investigated the supercharger from the 1G-GZE? > This motor (whose brothers 1G-GEU and 1G-GTE were fitted to Mk2 and > Mk3 Supras) was fitted in the Japanese home-market models of > Cressida/Cresta/Chaser models (all four door sedans). It is the same > style as the MR2 one I believe. Being for a 2.0 litre engine it > should flow more air. I have a few specs at home I think. > > Ade, was this the supercharger your friend was talking about? YES : ) that's the one .. 25% LONGER : ) so 25% more power Ade adem@wairc.govt.nz ------------------------------ From: Adrienne Mora Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 08:12:00 NZS Subject: FW: MR2 RE: pizza > >> I don't know about Mark M.'s cars, but the best pizza is in New Haven > >> (CT) at Pepe's on Wooster Street. If anyone thinks otherwise, I'll buy > >> and prove it. > >> > > > >You're on!! > > > >Ade > >New Zealand > > > >PS. will you pay for my plane ticket too? ; ) > > Sure - if you bring over a couple of 20v heads as carry-one! :-) SURE!!! : ) I'd do that for free tickets!! : ) Ade ------------------------------ From: william brandt Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:06:54 -0700 Subject: MR2 Mk 1 engine ruined? Well, today at work I get a call from my lady friend and my old Mk1 MR2 was "smoking at the engine" I go out there (it will be towed to my house) & most of the coolant is gone - check oil & no water appears to be in crank case - asked her what the temperatire guage said & she said "it was in the red" (and she drove it another mile! --- grrrrr -) So tonight I'll take a compression check & fill it with water - my guess is that either a hose broke or the water pump went in a big way (I had a 1974 Capri V6 that had a water pump literally shatter and if not for MY quick thinking would have ruined the engine - one disturbing bit of evidence is that there's black soot on the empty coolant recovery tank - any ideas? Steve - will you have a Mk 1 engine available? I guess the compression test will tell me more tonight... Bill ------------------------------ From: Adrienne Mora Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 09:03:00 NZS Subject: MR2 Suspension Techniques I'm trying to find some info on this ... anyone know their address/phone number/web page? i've had a brief look (my browser is slow and annoying) on the MR2 site .. but can't find their info Thanks heaps Ade Adem@wairc.govt.nz ------------------------------ From: ssr@netcom.com (David Kucharczyk) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 14:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MR2 Magnetic Oil Filters > From: "Marc L. Summers-SysAdmin" > Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 4:35:45 PDT > Subject: MR2 Magnetic oil filters > > 1) JC Whitley sells just such a device made by Magna-Strap for $9.95 (or > $14.95 for the two magnet model). Part number 71DH0568P page 196. > > First off, this device sold by JC Whitney is not anywhere near > as well engineered (if at all), as the Magnafilter is. i'll believe that, though whitney does often sell re-labled products from national manucfacturers (as well as a lot of crap). > 2) Oil filters are designed to trap particles that have a minimum size > that will pass through most engine clearances by a large margin, so > what does removing smaller particles buy you ? > > Most oil filters are not designed to filter out particles > smaller than 30 to 40 microns, most of the damage is done by > particles in the 10 to 15 micron range. > The MagnaFilter is an extremely powerful magnetic filtering > device that is specifically engineered to filter out these > damaging particles. i'm curious as to the source of the statement that particles in the 10-15 micron range cause most of the damage. all the reading i have done suggests that most wear (in a normally running engine) is caused by poor lubrication at start-up and sulfer/nitrogen based compounds causing oil acidity. > 3) Many wear surfaces (bearings) in a motor are not made of magnetic materials. > > Yes, I understand that, and the person best to answer that question > it Terry Cooper at MagnaFilter. > Please, give him a call, 1-800-263-7177 i'll have them send me whatever tech info they can. i find the claim that magnets can filter out non-ferrous particles real hard to believe. although moving magnetic fields will affect non-ferrous metals (i've done some experiments in this area) you need large surface areas and extremely strong and fast moving magnetic fields to exert appreciable force on the metals. > The test will be run like this David: > > I am currently just about due for an oil change which is > part of my normal cycle, 2500 miles. > A sample of my oil (Before) using the MagnaFilter will be > sent to an independent lab in Colorado. The oil will be > tested for particulate matter and a complete test of all of > its component parts. > > Then I will do the normal oil change, and the MagnaFilter > will be installed on my oil filter, and I will go through > a normal oil change cycle, so since I drive about 1000 miles > a month, that will be about 2 and one half months > Then at that time, another oil sample (After), will be sent > to the lab and tested for particulate matter. We will then have > hard emperical data as to whether or not the MagnaFilter really made > any difference. i would suggest performing the test at least twice or more so you have an idea of how repeatable the test results are. does the oil test indicate type of particulate matter or just a number covering everything over a certain size ? please don't take my comments as an attack on you or the filter co, i just have a hard time believing some of their claims and i have found a good number of places that sell automotive aftermarket stuff are 90% marketing and 10% technology (or worse), including some of the big name brands. nothing beats measurable, reproducible results. dave ------------------------------ From: "Harry Wang" Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 14:03:56 PST Subject: Re[2]: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel Marcus, You cut two coils off the H&R springs? A local shop (bay area) quoted me a price ($270 installed) for a set of H&R's. He said the drop is about 1.3". How do you like the springs, are they pretty stiff (before cutting them)? I also like riding pretty low but i don't know if i want to cut my coils. I cut 4 coils (i know its a lot) off the stock springs on my CRX and i scrape over everything, but it looks hella good. I'm trying to decide between Suspension Techniques or H&R springs. Where did you get your springs since i'm in the bay area too? Did you cut the all four coils? Harry 92Turbo ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel Author: "Lee, Marcus A." at SMTP Date: 09/30/1996 1:33 PM My 91T does more than feel the road. I think it goes into to battle each time I take it out. I live in SF where finding a street with no potholes is like finding a 95T in the US For starters, I have chromed '93 stocks, which make balancing them a challenge to begin with. Secondly, I have Illuminas set at 3 and HR springs cut two coils. To answer you question. MKIIs are very senstive to wheel balance. Make sure your wheels have a dynamic balance, not just static. (They had to balance mine twice to remove the shimmy above 80MPH.) A four wheel alignment will also help and will assit in fendeng off the uneven treadwear which 91/92 models are prone to. If you are looking to upgrade your suspension... my thoughts are that illuminas are quite stiff. Lowering and getting stiffer springs will help the MR2 to turn on rails and will make response lightning fast. The consequences: the possibility of of leaving your seat from undulations in the road and abuse to your chasis and your body! Other than that, I beleive .95G is attainable in a MR2 (maybe 1.0G). Quite worth it for a little abuse and a little extra road feel. >---------- >From: JHoSee@davd.com[SMTP:JHoSee@davd.com] >Sent: Monday, September 30, 1996 11:06 AM >To: mr2-interest@validgh.com >Subject: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel > >Do MkIIs really "feel" the road? I'm trying to figure out if it's wheel >imbalance or just the crummy Southern California highways. I'm thinking >it's the former since other Mr2s I test drove behaved similarly. >Just checking. Thanks. > >- Jeffrey > >p.s. If it is the case, no wonder why MkIIs are sensitive to wheel balance! > ------------------------------ From: William Stockton <0004239215@mcimail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 17:07 EST Subject: MR2 MKII Speaker Question Ok any of the AUDIOPHILES should be able to answer this one. I am having problems with break up in my (lower) door speakers after any kind of precipitation (rain/snow). The speakers produce a mix of static with the sound of the music. I am assuming that moisture is getting to the speakers and somehow phutzing with them. After a couple of dry days things seem to clear up. I don't have the time or inclination to pull the door skin and was wondering a couple of things. A) Am I assuming correctly? B) Has anyone else had this problem? C) If you have taken care of this problem what did you do? Seal the door? Purchase sealed Speakers? Both? D) What size are the door speakers? This leads to my last quandry. If I choose to replace the door speakers what is a good (budget minded) replacement. I am looking for a more solid bass punch without losing the midrange vocals. TIA, Bill wstockton@mcimail.com '91 Turbo -Hardtop- P.S. This noise about PIZZA is making me hungry for a good pie. Tonight it's Beujo's (a growing chain here in Colorado) you can get anything you want on these things. A plethora of crusts, sauces, cheeses and toppings. I have yet to find a bad combination. Ok, well the curry chicken and anchovie mix didn't sit to well with my wife. ------------------------------ From: "Lee, Marcus A." Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:15:32 -0700 Subject: RE: Re[2]: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel I cut two coils off all four. I would suggest cutting 2 1/2 off the rear and 2 off the rear. The rear is a little lower (space ship look) on my car. A little height may adjust a little for the rear weight bias but to each their own. (If you're power slide happy that is) I don't scrape too much, nor do i bounce. But like i stated earlier, my suspension is quite stiff!!! I may crack a window someday!!! The springs are not as stiff before they were cut. They are progressive so the more you cut off the top the more you lose in driveability. Most high performance products for Import autos can be found at Auto Innovations in Milpitas. They have both knowledgable techs and top notch equiptment. PS the MR is BLACK on Chrome with almost no gap. The MR sparkles after he met MR3M and Mr. Perfect Putty! >---------- >From: Harry Wang[SMTP:hwang@orthanc.nchip.COM] >Sent: Monday, September 30, 1996 3:03 PM >To: Lee, Marcus A.; mr2-interest@validgh.com >Subject: Re[2]: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel > > Marcus, > > You cut two coils off the H&R springs? A local shop (bay area) quoted > me a price ($270 installed) for a set of H&R's. He said the drop is > about 1.3". How do you like the springs, are they pretty stiff > (before cutting them)? I also like riding pretty low but i don't know > if i want to cut my coils. I cut 4 coils (i know its a lot) off the > stock springs on my CRX and i scrape over everything, but it looks > hella good. I'm trying to decide between Suspension Techniques or H&R > springs. Where did you get your springs since i'm in the bay area > too? Did you cut the all four coils? > > Harry > 92Turbo > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: RE: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel >Author: "Lee, Marcus A." at SMTP >Date: 09/30/1996 1:33 PM > > >My 91T does more than feel the road. I think it goes into to battle each >time I take it out. I live in SF where finding a street with no potholes >is like finding a 95T in the US > >For starters, I have chromed '93 stocks, which make balancing them a >challenge to begin with. Secondly, I have Illuminas set at 3 and HR >springs cut two coils. > >To answer you question. MKIIs are very senstive to wheel balance. Make >sure your wheels have a dynamic balance, not just static. (They had to >balance mine twice to remove the shimmy above 80MPH.) >A four wheel alignment will also help and will assit in fendeng off the >uneven treadwear which 91/92 models are prone to. > >If you are looking to upgrade your suspension... my thoughts are that >illuminas are quite stiff. Lowering and getting stiffer springs will >help the MR2 to turn on rails and will make response lightning fast. > >The consequences: the possibility of of leaving your seat from >undulations in the road and abuse to your chasis and your body! Other >than that, I beleive .95G is attainable in a MR2 (maybe 1.0G). Quite >worth it for a little abuse and a little extra road feel. > > > >>---------- >>From: JHoSee@davd.com[SMTP:JHoSee@davd.com] >>Sent: Monday, September 30, 1996 11:06 AM >>To: mr2-interest@validgh.com >>Subject: MR2 MkII Steering Input/Feel >> >>Do MkIIs really "feel" the road? I'm trying to figure out if it's wheel >>imbalance or just the crummy Southern California highways. I'm thinking >>it's the former since other Mr2s I test drove behaved similarly. >>Just checking. Thanks. >> >>- Jeffrey >> >>p.s. If it is the case, no wonder why MkIIs are sensitive to wheel balance! >> > > ------------------------------ From: "Lee, Marcus A." Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:26:10 -0700 Subject: RE: MR2 MKII Speaker Question There is probably moisture or rust/moisture somewhere in the wiring. Speakers themselves are pretty sealed from water damage and a damaged cone will probably always sound staticy. A few suggestions. Narrow down the sources when they are wet. Tap into the speaker wire at varous points and connect them to another speaker, you may be able to do this without taking the door apart. It may even be your deck itself. It seems unlikely to me that both speakers experience the same symptoms. Most MR2s are sealed pretty well in regards to wiring harnesses and speaker connections. Taking the door apart is not too difficult, just be careful with the trim clips! They are a little pricey, but i was able to fit a pair of Bost Pro's in the stock holes. Both the tweeter and Woofer in stock locations with the crossover in the door. This setup will probably require an additional amp but they sound great! Hope this helps a little! >M91T >---------- >From: William Stockton[SMTP:0004239215@mcimail.com] >Sent: Monday, September 30, 1996 3:07 PM >To: MR2-Digest >Subject: MR2 MKII Speaker Question > > >Ok any of the AUDIOPHILES should be able to answer this one. I am having >problems with break up in my (lower) door speakers after any kind of >precipitation (rain/snow). The speakers produce a mix of static with the >sound >of the music. I am assuming that moisture is getting to the speakers and >somehow phutzing with them. After a couple of dry days things seem to clear >up. >I don't have the time or inclination to pull the door skin and was wondering >a >couple of things. > > A) Am I assuming correctly? > B) Has anyone else had this problem? > C) If you have taken care of this problem what did you do? > Seal the door? > Purchase sealed Speakers? > Both? > D) What size are the door speakers? > >This leads to my last quandry. If I choose to replace the door speakers what >is >a good (budget minded) replacement. I am looking for a more solid bass punch >without losing the midrange vocals. > >TIA, > >Bill >wstockton@mcimail.com >'91 Turbo -Hardtop- > >P.S. This noise about PIZZA is making me hungry for a good pie. Tonight it's >Beujo's (a growing chain here in Colorado) you can get anything you want on >these things. A plethora of crusts, sauces, cheeses and toppings. I have >yet >to find a bad combination. Ok, well the curry chicken and anchovie mix >didn't >sit to well with my wife. > > > > ------------------------------ From: JHoSee@davd.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 15:44:52 -0700 Subject: MR2 Redline MTL clarification Okay ... I think I may be confused in the issue here. The MTL I have is not GL-5 spec ... and it says something like not for use in RWD differentials. Someone said there is a GL-5 spec MTL. I guess I'll have to place an order with Redline themselves to get the right oil. Or I'll just get the 75/90NS... :P Can anyone else comment? - - Jeffrey p.s. I think the Castrol stuff seems to be working now. It may have just needed some time to slush around in the tranny. ------------------------------ From: Jackman962@aol.com Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:13:17 -0400 Subject: RE: MR2 mkii turbo, lack of performance? In a message dated 96-09-30 00:14:46 EDT, bp81@gnn.com (Brian Palmer) writes: << The main problem is that when i get the car up to about 125-130mph it feels like it doesn't have much more left in it. >> With an all stock set-up, isn't this the limit that it can go? Jack Wheeler Jackman962@aol.com 94 Merc Tracer --> replaces 86 MK1 NA - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: bp81@gnn.com (Brian Palmer) Sender: owner-mr2@validgh.com Reply-to: bp81@gnn.com (Brian Palmer) To: mr2-interest@validgh.com Date: 96-09-30 00:14:46 EDT I was looking for some advice. I got a 91 turbo with 30k. I purchased it about 3 weeks ago. The car is in great condition. The service manager at toyota said the car is in great running condition. However it seems that the car isn't as wiling as it should be. First of all the turbo lag seems horrendous. I think i might be able to get used to that. The main problem is that when i get the car up to about 125-130mph it feels like it doesn't have much more left in it. The air filter is clean, the plugs are the stock platinums. Any suggestions? In terms of 0-60 times, whats the most efficient way of launching the car? Thanks in advance. Brian ------------------------------ From: mjn@earthlink.net (Mark Nernberg) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:17:03 -0400 Subject: RE: MR2 mkii turbo, lack of performance? >In a message dated 96-09-30 00:14:46 EDT, bp81@gnn.com (Brian Palmer) writes: > ><< The main problem is that when i get the car up to about 125-130mph it > feels like it doesn't have much more left in it. >> > >With an all stock set-up, isn't this the limit that it can go? The top speed of the stock setup is about 150MPH without alterations. Mark J. Nernberg (The World International Pizzalympics "World's Best Pizza Maker 1994, 1995, 1996") Managing Director/Ocean City Food Corporation, Inc./Ocean City, NJ mjn@earthlink.net (609)398-6280 1995 MR-2 Turbo (HKS FCD, Mr2 Boost Controller, K&N Filtercharger, Yokohama Nexus tires) 1996 BMW 750iL, 1996 BMW M-3, 1961 Ferrari Type 250 Testa Rossa convertible (The only one ever built!), 1996 Ferrari F355c, 1995 Ferrari F512M (for sale/trade), 1996 Ferrari F50 (number 003), 1968 Lamborghini Miura, 1971 Plymouth Superbird, 1996 Acura NSX-R/T, 1954 Mercedes 300SL Gull Wing, 1994 Mazda RX7 R-2, 1958 Vincent Black Shadow, 1963 Norton Commando, 1968 BMW RT100, 1995 McLaren F-1. Wait listed for 1997 Gillette Vertigo. Delivery on 7 October (scheduled). Wait listed for 1997 Ferrari F133 Maranello. Delivery expected in January. (Now possibly delayed until February). Looking for a decent raced F1 car. Pref. Ferrari, but Lotus or Benneton will do. *** And racing all of them at every stoplight! *** ------------------------------ From: mjn@earthlink.net (Mark Nernberg) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:16:59 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 >I am looking for a MR2 Turbo to buy. If you are interested in selling > >yours please email me. Thank you, > >Dean@cdc.net I appreciate the offer, however, it is *not* for sale at this time. Please consider the following: There were fewer '95 MR2 Turbos produced than any other car in my collection save the '61 TR convertible. IMHO, the MR2 will become a more valuable car over a long period of time. Plus, I thoroughly enjoy it! Mark J. Nernberg (The World International Pizzalympics "World's Best Pizza Maker 1994, 1995, 1996") Managing Director/Ocean City Food Corporation, Inc./Ocean City, NJ mjn@earthlink.net (609)398-6280 1995 MR-2 Turbo (HKS FCD, Mr2 Boost Controller, K&N Filtercharger, Yokohama Nexus tires) 1996 BMW 750iL, 1996 BMW M-3, 1961 Ferrari Type 250 Testa Rossa convertible (The only one ever built!), 1996 Ferrari F355c, 1995 Ferrari F512M (for sale/trade), 1996 Ferrari F50 (number 003), 1968 Lamborghini Miura, 1971 Plymouth Superbird, 1996 Acura NSX-R/T, 1954 Mercedes 300SL Gull Wing, 1994 Mazda RX7 R-2, 1958 Vincent Black Shadow, 1963 Norton Commando, 1968 BMW RT100, 1995 McLaren F-1. Wait listed for 1997 Gillette Vertigo. Delivery on 7 October (scheduled). Wait listed for 1997 Ferrari F133 Maranello. Delivery expected in January. (Now possibly delayed until February). Looking for a decent raced F1 car. Pref. Ferrari, but Lotus or Benneton will do. *** And racing all of them at every stoplight! *** ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #438