mr2-digest Wednesday, 2 October 1996 Volume 01 : Number 448 Re: MR2 MKII speed density MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #447 MR2 RE: rev limiter MR2 Re: 4AGE computer mods (xtal changes) MR2 TURBO Blue Smoke ???? MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #445 MR2 stereo MR2 MK1 Dyno Results MR2 How-To Steering rack end bushings MR2 call me chicken; advice for Jessica MR2 fuel Mixture, 12" Subs, Dyno Test Re: MR2 4AGE Mods MR2 T facts? MR2 60K service - $1016.39 Re: MR2 TURBO Blue Smoke ???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harry Wang" Date: Wed, 02 Oct 96 16:23:02 PST Subject: Re: MR2 MKII speed density As to my understanding, the HKS VPC converts an MKII from mass air to speed density (correct me if i'm wrong). Isn't a mass air system better? I used to have a 87 Mustang GT 5.0 and everyone was converting from its speed density system to mass air because it accepts hi-perf changes better (able to compensate for air flow changes, ie. air filter, exhaust system). So i'm kinda confused. What's the advantage of either? Thanks. Harry 92Turbo ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: MR2 MKII speed density Author: Wilson324@gnn.com (Aaron Wilson) at SMTP Date: 10/02/1996 1:34 PM I want to convert my intake system (93 turbo) to "Speed Density". HKS VPC's have been on back order all summer. Does anyone know of a reliable alternative? ------------------------------ From: Heather Bundy Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:18:10 -0800 Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #447 >From: dave@hypergrafx.com >Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 14:30:40 -0700 >Subject: Re: MR2 Mk I: stereo, 12" subs possible? > >>From: Steve Bagdon >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:16:04 -0400 (EDT) >>Subject: Re: MR2 Mk I: stereo, 12" subs possible? >> >>Anybody install a woofer in the front trunk, and port it throught the >>glove box area? >> >You stole my idea!! :) Actually, I was 99% ready to do this last winter, >then decided against it due to how much work it would take versus throwing >two 8" subs in "Kicker" style boxes behind the seats... > >If *you* try it, let me know! I really still consider doing it every now >and again... A girl did this in the town that I'm from. She takes it to competitions, and has won some of them. I know the guy who installed it, and he said he'd never do it again, because they had to use a plasma cutter. They actually ported it thru the wall up next to the dash instead of the glovebox. Sounds like *LOT* of money, so I went with an 8" bazooka tube which, depending on who you ask, has harder hitting bass because of the air space allowed for the speaker -*-Heather ------------------------------ From: Adrienne Mora Date: Thu, 03 Oct 96 11:43:00 NZS Subject: MR2 RE: rev limiter > Having owned my MK1 MR2 for 8 months now, I only found out the other day > while on the wrong side of the road that the MR2 have a built in rev > limiter. > what were you doing on the wrong side of the road???? : ) Ade ------------------------------ From: ssr@netcom.com (David Kucharczyk) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MR2 Re: 4AGE computer mods (xtal changes) > From: J\xrn Innset > Date: 02 Oct 96 22:02:47 +0000 > Subject: Re: MR2 4AGE Mods > > >2) Has anyone figured out a way to defeat/turn off the rev limiter, or move > >it to a higher rpm? > > A guy here in Norway has a Group N Corolla ECU, which lets him rev to > >9000 rpms. The other way of course, is to replace the crystal in the > ECU with a slightly faster crystal. replacing the ecu is the way to go. changing the crystal will probably change the rev limiter, but will also screw up the computers idea of what RPM you are running and its notion of time intervals, (ie change your timing curves, TVIS opening point and fuel delivery). dave ------------------------------ From: KlingK@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:45:21 -0400 Subject: MR2 TURBO Blue Smoke ???? Hi All ! Someone following me told me I was blowing blue smoke when pulling away briskly from a stop sign. I have a '91 MR2 Turbo with 109K miles on it - what should I be worrying about the turbo seals ( or is it bearings ) or some non-turbo related issue ( rings, valve guides etc. ) Should I see oily buildup in the pressurised side of the intake if the bearings are going ? What other steps should I take to diagnose the source of the smoke ? The engine was cold at the time and my ECU is indicating a problem with the oxygen sensor or the oxygen sensor heater ( the CE light goes out when the engine is warm ) so I suspect the heater. The person could have mistaken black smoke from bad mixture as a result of the O2 sensor as blue smoke. HMMMMMMMM..... ------------------------------ From: cbecker@juno.com (chris d becker) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:25:32 PST Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #445 >From: "Itrat Khan" >Date: 1 Oct 96 22:31:44 -0400 >Subject: MR2 MKI: constant vibrations from the wheels. > >This is sort of a long shot, so I don't know if anyone has had this sort of >problem before, but I'm getting a vibration through the wheels as if the >one of the tires is underinflated or one of the wheels is unbalanced (both >those check out fine). Every MK1 owner I know has dealt with this at some time (if you haven't, you'll have your day) ;) If what you are describing is a vibration that you can feel through the steering wheel, and it sounds as if it is coming from the passenger floor board, AND when you hit bumps it makes a "clunk" (metal on metal) sound, and possibly shakes the steering wheel violently under hard braking - then you qualify for a new steering rack bushing! :) Congratulations. It is about a $5.00 part, it generally goes out on the passenger side of the steering rack, and requires removing the rack to replace. It took me about 45 minutes to do the repair. Hey , I'd love to get a detailed how to for this!!! Also how can I adjust the idle speed for the air conditioner on my 89 mk1 na? THanks! Cbecker@juno.com 89 MR2 MOON ROCKET 2 ------------------------------ From: cbecker@juno.com (chris d becker) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:27:01 PST Subject: MR2 stereo I have a 1985 Mr2 with a piece of junk stero system. I need some advice in upgrading the equipment in it. If I can get some help please e-mail me back. I would like to know if I can get 12" subs and a amp in the vechicle. If there is anybody else with a 1985 or newer that has upgraded their stereo then please tell me so. Thanks in advance. craig Craig, I have a Kenwood cassette deck with a jenson equalizer all in the hole where the stock radio was, They fit perfectly using the existing brackets. Also I have 10 inch B.A. woofers right behind the seats, What I did was cut about 3 inches off the top of each speaker box then reseal it with that nylon pillow stuffing POLYFILL?(dramatically increased bass) . I then removed a little off the backing from behind the carpet on the fire wall, and I was able to put both enclosures back there with both seats all the way back and reclined up against the fire wall. I also have an alpine 100w amp going to the woofers only under the passenger seat. I tried to have it in the trunk and while it looked really nice it would only run for about 5 minuets before it would overheat and shutdown. I have a pioneer 6 disk changer in the trunk and absolutely love the ability to play cd's and cassettes. In my opinion the MK1 has really good acoustics because of the small space, with the existing 4 speakers (cut that damn 2 inch woofer under the drivers seat out!) and 2 or even 1 nice powered woofer, a very clean and strong system is available! Also with the woofers right behind the seats its kinda like getting a lower back massage when you crank it! Just be creative and move things around till you find something you like! hope this helps, Chris cbecker@Juno.com 89 MR2 MOON ROCKET 2 PS I just had a good Idea for a top of the windshield sticker, AW10L MOTORSPORTS with the L going for Lotus! Let me know what you think. Maybe we could all get together on something so we could be easily identified!(ohh secret handshake too!) ------------------------------ From: Daucott@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:50:58 -0400 Subject: MR2 MK1 Dyno Results Hi folks, After my quick question about TVIS and the Rev Limiter I got many requests for info on the dyno tests we did. In super-short form, this is what I found: My setup on all runs: HKS Exhaust, test pipe, TRD header, CAP cams, timing 18 deg adv. (shorted) 1) Baseline = 109.1 hp, 93.4 lb-ft. 2) Stock filter vs. K&N drop in filter = no gains 3) Stock wires vs. Magnecor = no gains 4) Stock intake vs. Powermax filter mod, relocated MAF = 114.7, 95.2 5) Move the MAF gear two teeth = no gains 6) Move gear 2 teeth, move the slider 1mm = 114.5, 96.6 7) Use Auto ECU = no gains 8) Disconnect O2 sensor = 115.0, 95.8 9) Advance Timing 8 degrees = 108.6, 94.3 As you can see, the only measurable differences were with the Powermax filter (good) and the timing (bad). There is a big dip in the power and torque curves right when TVIS opens up, and by analyzing the curve I think if I move the TVIS point up to 5000 rpm or so I'll have a much more powerful midrange. I ran a test with TVIS deactivated and there is a HUGE dip from 2800 rpm all the way to 5000 rpm... DO NOT DO THIS unless you have high compression pistons or some other mod (forced induction) that might fill the hole. I was surprised by this. My cams pull strong all the way to the rev limiter, and peak at 7300 rpm. If I shift there I keep my rpm's above the TVIS dip and stay in the power range. I wasn't able to put the timing back to stock for a test, but there is the possibility I have my timing too far advanced, and thus I may be losing hp. Chris and Mark ran many other tests, but I don't have their numbers handy, but Chris was in the 103 hp, 98 torque range with stock cams (1988, 39K miles). Mark has an '86 but we don't have his data yet. Comparing the curves shows big high rpm gains with my cams, and no midrange losses except in that post-Tvis area. I do lose a little torque (guess where) but I'll get that back!!! The '88 has a much better map of fuel, cam, etc. to make the dip almost disappear. The '86 has a huge dip (I keep saying that.... don't I). They found the following with stock cams: EGR = nothing Exhaust = nothing -- HKS, Monza, Supertrapp... all the same Remove Cat = nothing (but cool sounds!) MAF mods = nothing without intake changes. = good with intake changes Open K&N on relocated MAF = maybe 1 hp Powermax on relocated MAF = 3 hp more than K&N It was surprising to see the exhaust changes did nothing on their cars. I'd like to see it on my car with the cams and header, but alas, the event is over. There is much more info than I put in this note, and if you're interested in a particular one, or would like graphs of the runs, e-mail me directly. My best run for hp was 115.0, or 138.0 crank hp (using the 1.2 multiplier). Not bad when you consider I have one cylinder at 115 psi!!! :-) Dave A. daucott@aol.com ------------------------------ From: aly abulkheir Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MR2 How-To Steering rack end bushings Hi All, With a lot of us finding that our steering rack end bushings need replacement on our mk1 MR2's lately, I'd appreciate it and I'm sure a lot of others would too if a few people who've done the repair themselves could post a well-detailed description of how to take the steering rack out, where the bushings are on the rack, how to get them off and put the new ones in, and how to put the steering rack back in the car without messing things up. Thank you very much :) Aly AbulKheir '85 MR2, Red with all options abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu "MR2. The finest automobile in the World. The LS400 ain't too bad either." :-) ------------------------------ From: "William L. Brandt" Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 17:29:57 -0700 Subject: MR2 call me chicken; advice for Jessica Based on the advice Dave Smith gave me, I'm going to see a fellow who moonlights in the Sacramento area. I'll get the job for around $400, where my dealer was quoting $660. I know that given the time I could probably pull the head but getting it back on and those 41 steps.... Jessica: Assuming your car is a manual transmission (did they even offer an auto in the Mk 2?) You would have to have your car either on a hoist or on jackstands and open the fill plug of your transmission. Unless your transmission has a leak (any oil on the ground?) you should be OK. Changing the timing belt and the coolant are two of the most important maintenance items to do on your MR2. They are also one of the most neglected by the public. The timing belt should be changed every 60K - go longer and it can break leaving you stranded. You should try & see where your car was serviced - - call dealers and give them your VIN # if you have no other information. If you can't verify that the major service at 60K was done, DO IT NOW. This included Fuel Filter change, plugs, airfilter, valve adjustment (although many claim that you can go 100K w/o this expensive part) coolant change, and timing belt. The coolant s/b changed at 60K and then every 30K after that. That's about it. Despite being a high performance sports car, your MR2 isn't constantly demanding of servce. I change my oil every 5K and use Mobil 1 15-50. I'm going to put Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube (75-90) in my transxle (transmission) Bill William L. Brandt wlb@calweb.com Sacramento, CA ------------------------------ From: QUI HONG Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MR2 fuel Mixture, 12" Subs, Dyno Test Jorn, Thanks for the info on the fuel mixture setup! Now I have something to do this weekend! Regarding the TRD headers: Yes, it is a direct bolt on. But as I understand you have a Janspeed exhaust system which replaces everything(even the downpipe) except the part of the header that is bolted on to the head. The TRD headers is a one piece header which bolts on the to the head at one end and the cat.(if you have one) at the other end. So it might not bolt on to your Janspeed exhaust cleanly. Anyway, I think the Janspeed exhaust system is great. If I knew it existed I would of bought that instead of the TRD headers. Regard the 12" Sub in the Hood: I seen/heard that a guy around here did that. But he had two 12" subs. I know he had to take out the spare tire and I think he drilled some extra holes to let the air pass. It was a real neat setup from what I heard. But the thing I wanted to get at was that his MK1 had the 850i BMW bodykit on. Did anyone of you ever seen this kit before. I saw it a few times here in San Francisco. The front of the car looks just like a 850i! You have to change the whole bumber. It looks really nice/funny. I don't know if they still make them or not. Does anyone know? I never got a close look at it. He is always driving. But don't worry one of these days I find him and take some pictures! O.K Regarding the Dyno Test: Plain and Simple......SPILL IT! I want to know the results! PPPPPLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSEEEEE! Give some details! Qui Hong quihong@sfsu.edu 88 MR2, Pearl Blue(black side airvent), TRD Headers, Akimoto Air Filter, Super Turbo Muffler (soon to change), Intrac Springs(-2"), Tokico Hp shocks, And soon to come, a adjustable fuel knob thingy! ------------------------------ From: Daucott@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:00:03 -0400 Subject: Re: MR2 4AGE Mods In a message dated 96-10-02 19:42:27 EDT, you write: << A guy here in Norway has a Group N Corolla ECU, which lets him rev to >9000 rpms. The other way of course, is to replace the crystal in the ECU with a slightly faster crystal. >> This raises an interesting question... what other ECUs will pilot an MR2 4AGE? Anybody know? Dave A. daucott@aol.com ------------------------------ From: trop@alantec.com (Troy Pummill) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 21:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: MR2 T facts? All, Along with several others, I too may have my first MR2 very soon. It is possible that the first thing I will have to do is drive it across the country. I know nothing of turbos, so I'm looking for sage advice regarding treatment, type of oil, etc., especially as I start as this will be the world's longest test drive (some 3100 miles)! Matt suggested idling the engine before killing the engine (probably 2-3 minutes). Is there anything else? Also, whomever has the sticker and mug info, please drop me a line. I'm interested..... Many thanks to all of you..... Troy - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Troy T. Pummill | trop@fore.com | | Fore QA Department | LAN Switching Division | | (408) 467-4684 | 2115 O'Nel Drive, Silicon Gulch | | San Jose, CA 95131 | Fax: (408) 441-0272 | - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: dgh (David G. Hough at validgh) Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 22:12:27 PDT Subject: MR2 60K service - $1016.39 For those interested in the blow-by-blow of a 88SC 60,000 mile service, here it is: Labor 60k service $186 engine tune, flush cooling, lube/oil/filter, change trans fluid, tire rotate, fuel filter Replace timing belt, water pump, seals $496 Parts (all Toyota they say) 4 spark plugs $38 air filter $20 fuel filter $30 flush kit $ 5 thermostat $19 coolant $11 oil filter $ 7 2 wiper inserts $10 timing belt $37 water pump $54 3 seals $15 2 fan belts $36 4 quarts oil $ 7 5 quarts RedLine $15 shop supplies $ 7 sales tax $24 This was done by Yarnell's in Mountain View, CA. The only negatives (besides price) were that though they fixed the clutch pedal SQUEAK by lubing it, I notice now that it CREAKS as well (maybe did that before too), and I had the 60mph shimmy really bad after the tire rotate, but it seems to have fixed itself partially since then. If it doesn't go away I'll go back. I had been free of the shimmy since the last time I went to Yarnell's (for a brake job a couple of years ago). You can certainly do it cheaper, but if you only do it once or twice in your life, the learning curve is steep enough that the savings per hour is pretty small. I also rented a car for two days since Yarnell's is not near where I live or work. ------------------------------ From: Christopher Long Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MR2 TURBO Blue Smoke ???? At 08:45 PM 10/2/96 -0400, you wrote: >Someone following me told me I was blowing blue smoke when pulling away >briskly from a stop sign. > >I have a '91 MR2 Turbo with 109K miles on it - what should I be worrying >about the turbo seals ( or is it bearings ) or some non-turbo related issue ( >rings, valve guides etc. ) It's my understanding that the turbo's run very rich under boost and that can cause some black smoke to come out of your exhaust. If your engine was cold, your cold start injector may have been on, making you run more rich. If the person mistook black smoke for blue smoke, then it may have been nothing. OTOH, blue smoke usually means you're buring oil. The first thing I'd do is a compression test on the engine. It could be your rings. >Should I see oily buildup in the pressurised side of the intake if the >bearings are going ? According to the repair manual, some oil spray is normal. So, you might see a little, but not a lot. I'm having my turbo (non-stock, HKS) rebuilt now. It had a bad compressor wheel and the oil seals were probably gone too (it was leaking). Thick black oil was seeping out from under the silicone hose connecting the turbo to the metal air line to the intercooler. No one ever told me that I was blowing blue smoke. There was no black or blue smoke at idle. It would still pass a smog test in Florida. So, as someone that knows what it's like to have a wounded turbo, bad oil seals would not be my first guess. >The engine was cold at the time and my ECU is indicating a problem with the >oxygen sensor or the oxygen sensor heater ( the CE light goes out when the >engine is warm ) so I suspect the heater. The person could have mistaken >black smoke from bad mixture as a result of the O2 sensor as blue smoke. Have you tested the O2 sensor? Since you have a known problem somewhere here, I'd check that too. But, I'd do a compression test 1st. I have a compression tester gauge that I bought at Sears...($20-$30, or something like that). Compression should be 164psi or more. Minimum is 128psi. Difference between each cylinder should be 14psi or less. Instructions are in the repair manual. Chris 93 Turbo ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #448