mr2-digest Wednesday, 5 February 1997 Volume 01 : Number 774 Re: MR2 Back? Re: MR2 TURBO Highmileage Help (long!) Re: MR2 Re: 5-SFE swap for a 3-SGTE MR2 Mark II Tokicos vs. Koni re: MR2 Turbo High Mileage Re: Clear lense, Japanses MR2s Re: MR2 water in oil Re: Engine Swaps (MR2) Re: Engine Swaps (MR2) Re: MR2 Re: 5-SFE swap for a 3-SGTE Re: MR2 MKII Where is that annoying buzzer? Re: MR2 MK2 Transmission 2-1 Shift Northern California MR2 rally Re: MR2 60k service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: marcus@illusion.magicno.com Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 07:05 MST Subject: Re: MR2 Back? Geoff Seeley says: >Taken from Turbo magazine, March 1997 issue, p.102: >"Industry sources say that the MR2, which ceased production with the '95 model > year, may be coming back. Toyota is supposedly studying the feasibility of > a new version. The new model may be influenced by the recent introduction of > aggressively-styled European cars." >I don't know how much faith I'd have in the above as they don't seem to know >that there is a '96 and '97 model available in certain parts of the world :-) Yes, it does sound like Turbo magazine has finally seen some of the MRJ info. Do many people on the list get the Toyota surveys sent to them? I just sent one back yesterday. I hope that it gets some personal attention, since it should stand out as "unusual". Basically, I always give an excellent rating to everything about the car. Then, when they get to the question about when I replace the car, would I be likely to buy a Toyota, I say "no". As the reason: "Toyota no longer imports a true sports car". I'm sure that just one voice has relatively little effect on Toyota's marketing plans, but if many of the owners here are getting surveys from Toyota and responding similarly, I wonder how much effect that has? marcus hall '94 MR2T (daily driver, autocross) '85 MR2 ITA (paid for, not here yet) ------------------------------ From: Steve Hoult Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:21:33 -0600 Subject: Re: MR2 TURBO Highmileage Help (long!) KlingK@aol.com wrote: > > Howdy all > > I have a 91 MR2 Turbo With 115K miles on it and am thinking about > having some major work done on it - although it is working fine right > now. My thinking is to replace the things that will go soon all at > once and hopefully save on labor in the long run. Here are the items > I'm thinking about: > > 1. Turbo Rebuild > 2. Alternator > 3. Waterpump > 4. Possible Trans rebuild > 5.. Timing Belt ( was done at 60K - should I bother - this is a > non-interference engine - Right ? ) > > Anybody have any other suggestions - should I have the head done ? > Check compressions and decide on an engine rebuild ? > > Any thoughts on cost for this ???? - -- If you're replacing the water pump you might as well replace the timing belt. You've already done the labor and the belt itself is relativly cheap. Unless you're racing or you have problems with the trans already I wouldn't just blindly rebuild it. Take it to a reputable shop and have them look the tranny over. If that doesn't appeal to you, drain the trans oil into a CLEAN pan of some kind and check for metal bits/shavings. A small amount is normal. More is not.... If you have the engine out for ANY reason, replace the Clutch, pressure plate and Throwout bearing unless you have done them in the last 20K miles or so. Again, rather then blindly repairing or replacing the turbo check it first. Since I know little about Turbos I can't tell what to check. > Any thoughts on cost for this ???? 1. Turbo Rebuild $1000-1500 2. Alternator $250-300 3. Waterpump $200-250 4. Timing Belt $300-350 5. Possible Trans rebuild $1000-2000 6. Waterpump & Timing Belt $350-450 These are non-dealer prices. Taking the car to a dealer will cost 20-30% more and WILL NOT assure you of a better job. Should you have the head done? It depends on what you want to accomplish. As stated before in other posts, the best bang for the buck seems to be by increasing boost from the normal 10-12 psi to 15-18 psi. Doing the head properly can be expensive and will probably not acheive great increases in HP or torque. If you check compression and there is a need to replace the head gasket or a valve job, then the story changes. I'm a great believer in "as long as you're in there you might as well do it". If the head is already off it's time to consider porting and polishing the head (extrude hone maybe?), hotter cams, port matching to the manifolds. Are you considering these mods because of a recent/expected windfall? If so, please follow the suggestion below CAREFULLY..... 1. Take 50% of your windfall..... 2. Send it to me!!!!! Steve Hoult 89 MKI SC T-Bar 86 Mustang LX T-Top (The Family Car) SoftBoot@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: Steve Hoult Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:35:32 -0600 Subject: Re: MR2 Re: 5-SFE swap for a 3-SGTE Steve Bagdon wrote: > I'm all for it. Everyone wants to just toss some stuff on, but if you > want *real* power improvements, a lot of times it's easier to just > change the 'base' engine you are starting with (ie: larger > displacement, or installing an engine that came from the factory with > a turbo). I think a lot of the 'knowledge base' of engine swaps was > lost, but I have hopes that it's coming back. > > Steve B. - -- I don't think the the knowledge has been lost, it hasn't been attained yet. When the gubment decided that the gas engine was a bad thing and made the auto companies add all the polution equip (including EFI) it became a whole new ball game. Gone are the days when anyone with a hammer, welding torch and the brains to hook up a coil and starter could transplant an engine. Now you have to understand the interaction between all the different sensors and how the ECU adjusts to compensate for the readings. The wiring harness can contain 10-20 wires just for the ECU alone. Few people have the electronics knowledge AND the mechanical ability and the tools to do these new transplants. Of course I'd love to shoehorn a more powerful engine into the MR2 as long as there is no weight penalty. Just looking at the engine cavity lets me know that an all aluminum V-8 won't fit where the Iron block 4AGZ sits...... Oh well. Steve Hoult 89 MKI SC T-Bar 86 Mustang LX T-Top (The Family Car) SoftBoot@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: "Dave Aucott USAET(UTC -05:00)" Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:34:27 EST Subject: MR2 Mark II Tokicos vs. Koni Hi, Well, my ongoing "do I have TRD suspension or not" thread will be ending soon, since I just found out the reason my suspension is so stiff is because the front struts basically LOCK into a position and hold it, thus preventing the spring from "springing" and acting like a welded rod (almost). So, this brings me to my dilemma... Koni or Tokico? I need to make a decision soon. The Konis are more expensive, but IMHO they are much better than the Illuminas. Could anyone with experience on either of these struts in an MKII please let me know your thoughts? Are you happy with them? Adjustment range? Quality of damping? How does the Koni adjust, still with the blade? Any info will be appreciated. Thanks. .............. Dave Aucott 1998 FN145 Structures, Moonroof, Fixed Glass, Sealing 32-39181 (PDC), 31-78780 (NMPDC) Net: daucott.ford@e-mail.com ------------------------------ From: Scott McBurney Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:44:25 -0600 Subject: re: MR2 Turbo High Mileage >From: KlingK@aol.com >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:25:44 -0500 (EST) >Subject: MR2 TURBO Highmileage Help >I have a 91 MR2 Turbo With 115K miles on it and am thinking about having some >major work done on it - although it is working fine right now. My thinking is >to replace the things that will go soon all at once and hopefully save on >labor in the long run. Here are the items I'm thinking about: >1. Turbo Rebuild >2. Alternator >3. Waterpump >4. Possible Trans rebuild >5.. Timing Belt ( was done at 60K - should I bother - this is a >non-interference engine - Right ? ) >Anybody have any other suggestions - should I have the head done ? Check >compressions and decide on an engine rebuild ? Well, I don't have a turbo MR2, but my 91 does have 158,000 miles on it. My alternator completely froze up at 95,000 miles. If yours is working, I probably wouldn't mess with it. I have found out (from experience) that if your alternator goes, and your battery is in reasonable condition, you can drive about 150 miles before the battery gives out. I don't know about the turbo, but I would think it is fine. There was once a guy from Detroit that had more miles on his turbo mr2 than mine, and I don't think he had any work done on it. I finally had the timing belt replaced at 106,000 miles (they say it should be done at 60k). The old one was still in good condition. When they do replace the timing belt, they will almost always check your water pump at the same time. Mine was still fine. I hope that helps! Scott McBurney 1991 MR2, 158,000 miles License: QUIK MR 2 ------------------------------ From: Steve Bagdon Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:59:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Clear lense, Japanses MR2s > > So, should I do a bulk purchase of the cup-holders? :-) > > > > Steve B. > YES!! The cup-holders take up '1/2 of the double-din' (single-din) of the radio cluster. That means you have to either *have* to had lost the bottom portion, or you *will* loose the bottom portion. Steve B. ------------------------------ From: Herb Phillips Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:51:34 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 water in oil william brandt wrote: mechanic laughed when I > asked him to open differential drain plug - he did it to humor me - and to > his surprise out flowed a grayish watery glop. Ditto for the transmission. > > If I hadn't done this I'd have looked at a $4000 repait bill... > > Bill > William L. Brandt > wlb@calweb.com > Sacramento, CA Bill: good point, however this water would have quickly evaporated also as the gears began to glow. HP ------------------------------ From: Steve Bagdon Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:08:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Engine Swaps (MR2) > I am all for engine swaps. Let's face it, for a street car, you are > going to find it hard (and expensive) to make much more than 150Hp per > Liter. It would be great to add displacement. Unfortunately, swapping > engines today is not like it was 10 or more years ago. You now have > the computer and wiring harness to contend with, as well as all the > niceties like air conditioning, etc. As I've said, as I'm concerntrating on making model combinations that the factory didn't ship, my options are different. If I were to try to change engines (I4 -> V6) or configurations (4A-GZE from a midship MR2 into an AE86 RWD Corolla GTS), then it gets harder. But even the 4A-GZE from an '88SC to an '89NA isn't all peaches - the things at the top of the list is the a/c is different, the guage cluster is different and the wiring harnesses are different. If you wanted to install the V6 into the '90 Celica All-Trac Turbo, some things can be inferred from the tranny. Going from memory (from the manual), the All-Trac tranny is basically a modified E-153 tranny with a transer case slapped on the right output shaft. If I found a V6 that also used an E-153, it should slip on. That doesn't mean they would fit, but at least the basis is there. Personally - what's the point? The 3S-GTE is good for at least 300hp (at the wheel!), so unless you want great low-end trouque from the SC V6 (which you can get with nitrous on the 3S-GTE, anyway) you have to have a drastic need for the tourque (or the drastic need to be unique!). Steve B. ------------------------------ From: Steve Hammatt Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:09:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Engine Swaps (MR2) Terry McLane 312.630.0533 wrote: > > By the way, I put MR2 in the subject since the list manager seems to > add it anyway. > > I am all for engine swaps. Let's face it, for a street car, you are > going to find it hard (and expensive) to make much more than 150Hp per > Liter. It would be great to add displacement. Unfortunately, swapping > engines today is not like it was 10 or more years ago. You now have > the computer and wiring harness to contend with, as well as all the > niceties like air conditioning, etc. > > I also find that it's very difficult to get any information about the > import cars pertaining to bolt patterns, what's compatible etc. Noone > knows because they change so often. You have to actually get all the > parts to see if they fit. > > I have a '90 all-trac, and I've thought about swapping in the alloy v-6 > from the camry/avalon/gs300. You're then starting with 3-liters rather > than two. Add a supercharger, and you have 400+ HP, lots of low-end > torque, and improved engine smoothness. Unfortunately, I don't have an > extra all-trac transmission and 3.0 liter engine to check whether all > the parts are in place. What about pilot bearing- many times, cars > that don't come equipped with manual transmissions don't have the crank > drilled for the pilot bearing. How about engine mounts, wiring > harness, computers, etc? > > Things were a lot easier when you only had to hook up fuel to the > carburetor, a lead to the distributor, and a couple of hoses. (Not > better, just easier). > > If anyone has more information about engine/trans compatibility, it'd > be great if you could post it. > > Terry > tm8@ntrs.com Terry Intersting thoughts, but I wanted to set the record on one comment. The Lexus GS300 is a 3.0 litre STRAIGHT six, not V6. The ES300 is the v6, similar to Camary (and probably Avalon). The straight I6 is from the non-turbocharged Supra. Steve ------------------------------ From: Steve Bagdon Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:11:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: MR2 Re: 5-SFE swap for a 3-SGTE > > I'm all for it. Everyone wants to just toss some stuff on, but if you > > want *real* power improvements, a lot of times it's easier to just > > change the 'base' engine you are starting with (ie: larger > > displacement, or installing an engine that came from the factory with > > a turbo). I think a lot of the 'knowledge base' of engine swaps was > > lost, but I have hopes that it's coming back. > > Now you have to understand the interaction between all the different > sensors and how the ECU adjusts to compensate for the readings. The > wiring harness can contain 10-20 wires just for the ECU alone. Few > people have the electronics knowledge AND the mechanical ability and the > tools to do these new transplants. Agreed. Perhaps what I was trying to communicate was that people didn't do engine swaps, mainly because of the extra work involved. But now, if you want to go crazy, there are some great complete cars out there, that can be had for a song. If you work at it, you can find a complete and running '88-'89 SC 4A-GZE car for $1k (so you have the engine/tranny and wiring harness). Perhaps the goal hasn't changed, but the skill-set required to accomplish the goal has. Steve B. ------------------------------ From: "Vernon Natewa" Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:22:03 -0700 Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Where is that annoying buzzer? >On my '91T, how do I disable the buzzer that sounds when I have keys in >the ignition and the door open? I crawled under the dash (not easy with >a roll cage) and could hear it, but couldn't locate it exactly. While >working on the car I often have the door open and keys on to have the >stereo playing, and I want to kill that buzzer. >Brad Burns The buzzer is located inside a plastic box held on with a 10mm bolt. The box is to the right of the ignition switch on a metal support for the center console to the left of the heater/ac controls. You need to take off the panel between instrument cluster and the pedals to access it. If you disconnect the wire for the buzzer only, it also disables the feature that prevents the doors from locking with the key in the ignition. I opened up the box and unsoldered the buzzer from the circuit board. This keeps all other features intact. Vernon Natewa '93 MR2T "Steel Mist Grey" formerly '91 MR2T "Steel Mist Grey" vernon@ceramics.mot.com ------------------------------ From: whitemr2@juno.com (Matt Gawlowski) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:34:02 EST Subject: Re: MR2 MK2 Transmission 2-1 Shift Joe Dyer writes: >I'm curious - why would one wish to engage 1st gear while rolling? It >would have to be a very steep hill I would think. Simple! Approaching a stoplight...the light is red, the lane in front of you is open...a glance to the left shows that the light is about to change...20 feet from the light now...shift into 1st...10 feet from the light...rev the engine...light turns green...drop the clutch and floor the throttle and your head snaps back into the seat and away you go! Matt Gawlowski, '91 White NA MR2, whitemr2@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/4096/index.html ------------------------------ From: Matt Gawlowski Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:23:01 -0800 Subject: Northern California MR2 rally Let's drive! I'm organizing a get-together for the Northern California Region of the International MR2 Owners Club (NCROFIMOC for short? ;> ). Date: Sunday, February 16th Time: TBA Location: Santa Clara Valley, California Contact person: whitemr2@juno.com (me) The drive will take us through the hills outside of Milpitas. Part of the drive will be on the most dangerous road I've ever been on...but hey, it's only dangerous if you drive fast, so we'll be taking it slow and safe. The road is one of the most FUN I've ever driven though...great scenery, BUT steep dropoffs on one side, and it's only a one lane road with TONS of blind corners so you really have to be careful. It takes you through some beautiful, deserted countryside though. Restaurants are scarce; we'll probably stop for a picnic lunch at a nice park in the area so be thinking about that. This event may be postponed one week for weather reasons; if so, the decision will be made no later than the friday prior. More details will follow later this week... - -Matt G., '91 White NA ------------------------------ From: Gustavo Pavon Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:43:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: MR2 60k service > From: whitemr2@juno.com (Matt Gawlowski) > Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:33:00 EST .... > One thing the service includes is a valve adjustment (~$200) that's VERY > important...don't pass on this one! > Oooops! Could you please elaborate? I asked two different Toyota mechanics, and both came up with the same answer: The valves are self-adjusting, and they seldom find an engine that needs it. Thanks! Gustavo Pavon '91 Turbo eusgps@exu.ericsson.se ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #774