mr2-digest Tuesday, 18 February 1997 Volume 01 : Number 817 MR2 downsides to using cross-drilled rotors Re: MR2 Metal Head Gaskets MR2 Aeroware Install Cost MK II (93) Re: MR2 Mk1 Security MR2 insult of the day MK1 MR2 '87 MKI T-Bar. Parts wanted. Re: Re :MR2 Mk 1 rear brakes;list size; cheap Mobil 1 MR2 Mk1: Original Brochure Q & A Re: MR2 MKII: Insult of the Day!! Re: MR2 Drive wheels MR2 For Australia: Toyota Show and Shine 2nd March MR2 Turned Rotors Re: mr2-digest V1 #813, MR2 Performance Products web site MR2 MKII fog lights MR2 pictures from Nor Cal Rally MR2: TEST - PLEASE IGNORE MR2 Turbo Re:Pete's SoapBox, VPC versus AFC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc L. Summers-SysAdmin" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 4:53:11 PST Subject: MR2 downsides to using cross-drilled rotors Hello Matt, and others: Matt said: "Cross-drilled rotors will eat up brakes pads faster than normal." I have not found this to be true, at least in my case. I have cross drilled in the front and stock rotors in the rear, and I have found that the pads are wearing identical, even right down to the thousandth of an inch. I am using carbon kevlar pads also. So perhaps some types of pads will wear faster, but my carbon kevlar are all wearing exactly the same. - -- + ------------------------------------------------- + + +++ N E C +++ +++ A M E R I C A +++ + + ------------------------------------------------- + + Marc L. Summers System Administrator + + 3100 N.E. Shute Road Hillsboro Oregon 97124 + + PH: 1-503-681-3338 FAX: 1-503-681-3304 + + Email: marcs@tdd.hbo.nec.com + + ---------- Sic transit gloria mundi. ------------ + + --- "Thus passes away the glory of the world." -- + + ------------------------------------------------- + ------------------------------ From: rockwell@pa.msu.edu Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 08:20:17 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 Metal Head Gaskets Dave wrote: :Although required usually only for large amounts of boost in turbo cars, what :about doing the 0-ring trick around the cylinders? I've never seen it, but :I've heard of it. Anyone? They are often used on really high compression NA engines - if you know somebody that has a prepared autox or roadrace car with a built engine they probably will have used them. Tom ------------------------------ From: Ace123JIM@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:21:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: MR2 Aeroware Install Cost MK II (93) Group, You are right. A professional shop is going to have to work the kit in with their regular insurance business. My shop is working on it between jobs. All the parts are fitted and are being painted. I expect the cost to be around $1500-$1700. But, realize that this not your average body shop. I am expecting the car to have a factory (quality) look when the project is done. Keep in mind, that there can be little time spent fitting these parts, or a shop can spend many hours making them fit perfectly. In this business you often get what you pay for. I will let the group know as soon as my kit is finished,what the cost was and how it turned out. If some one wants to run a photo on their web page, I will send them several. Jim Griffin 93 T Black/tan 94 Supra T Black/tan 73 Citabria 7KCAB ------------------------------ From: JWH Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:22:06 -0500 Subject: Re: MR2 Mk1 Security John Lear wrote: > > 'Somebody' attacked my door handle with a screw driver over the > weekend and failed, fortunately they didn't do much damage. I just > need to realign the door handle where it was pushed off centre. > > Has anybody else suffered a similar attack ? And any thoughts on how > strong this area is? Obviously I'd like to make sure that they don't > intend coming back, and if they do ensure that they fail. > > Also, I have got to realign the door handle. Is it a simple job? If it > is I'll have a go in the evening. I am guessing that I have to take > the door trim off and release some retaining clips. The Haynes manual > isn't too helpfull. > > Thanks for your help, > John > > '87 MK1 Yea I've had this problem also. I removed the door panels and then drilled a small hole near the top right corner of the handle (drivers side). You can thread in a small bolt and place a washer on the inside so that the metal of the door provides some strength. This adds a bit more security but I would suggest a fuel pump kill switch that cannot be found. At least they won't be able to take your MR2. Jason '85 MK1 ------------------------------ From: Travis Morien Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:42:20 +0800 (WST) Subject: MR2 insult of the day MK1 My hands become choking weapons of death whenever someone whistles and goes..."hey Travis....nice Capris!" That hurts...really..it hurts a lot.. *giggle* 8P ------------------------------ From: "Giles Jackson IS-SP" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 12:45:56 -0000 Subject: MR2 '87 MKI T-Bar. Parts wanted. I need two parts: The plastic moulding things that are just in front of the removable roof panels for each side of the car. They fit around the part that the locking mechanism from the roof panel fits into. Preferably blue, although black would be okay too. Mine are cracked, so not urgent enough to pay dealer prices, but important enough to irritate! The other bit I would kind of like, but which is not as important as those above is the central facia piece that fits around the stereo and heater controls (push button type). This though would have to be in blue. If anyone has such bits, if you could let me know what you want for 'em and how much postage to the UK would be, that would be great. ******************************** Giles Jackson IS-SP gjackson@madge.com ------------------------------ From: Robin San Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 20:28:20 +1000 Subject: Re: Re :MR2 Mk 1 rear brakes;list size; cheap Mobil 1 MattUK435@aol.com wrote: > My local Toyota dealer told me this was a sticking caliper and after > lubricating the caliper slides and fitting a new set of pads the noise has > gone. The disk still gets hot though and i'm not convinced it's sorted. Hi All What do you lubricate sliders on the caliper with? A Moly grease or silicone grease or other??? Thanks Robin ------------------------------ From: Robin San Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:49:51 +1000 Subject: MR2 Mk1: Original Brochure Q & A Hi all A mate of mine just returned from Japan and brought for me some cool stuff, one of which was the original Toyota MR2 brochure. Its got all the facelifted models including the SC, the 4AGE and the Auto. The questions are; 1)On the mirror adjustment mechanism there is a button for "RETRACT" as well as the usual right, left and arrows for adjustment. So the question is did the US MR2 ever come with a retractable electric mirror? If so I want one!(two). 2)There appears to be a half Din size Coin tray, anyone know where I can get one in black? If anyone is interested I will endevour to get it scanned and posted. Thanks Robin San 89 Mk1 NA ------------------------------ From: whitemr2@juno.com (Matt Gawlowski) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:10:38 EST Subject: Re: MR2 MKII: Insult of the Day!! On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:14:40 -0600 Jessica Cord writes: >I went to my younger sister's 16th birthday party, and one of her >friends asked my if my car was a Saturn!!!!!! "Huh?!, EXCUSE ME!!" >Jessica > Well, at the rally Sunday, we were driving through a park, all 16 of us, and as I drove by a family walking, I heard a young boy say, "look, they're all TERCELS"!!! >:< Matt Gawlowski, '91 White NA MR2, whitemr2@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/4096/index.html ------------------------------ From: whitemr2@juno.com (Matt Gawlowski) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:10:37 EST Subject: Re: MR2 Drive wheels >Matt, Matt after all of that mechanical engineering work you should remember the >killer problem with front wheel drive cars - torque steer. Unequal torque is >distributed to wheels that have unequal half shaft lengths. Our wonderful MR2 >basically has a crappy front wheel drive transaxle (going backwards) with a >significantly shorter right side drive shaft resulting in much more torque to >the right wheel. More torque = more slippage. Well, first of all, isn't the right side driveshaft LONGER than the left? I think it would be, judging by where the transmission is...? Also, in the SEVENTIES, Volkswagen found a way to overcome this effect, by using different diameter driveshafts, so even though the shafts were unequal lengths, the torque felt at the wheels would be the same (though I admit, I don't know if this is a 'perfect' solution of not, but in theory it's great). I find it hard to believe that over a decade later, Toyota would design a sports car without attention to this??? Matt Gawlowski, '91 White NA MR2, whitemr2@juno.com http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/4096/index.html ------------------------------ From: Robin San Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 01:18:00 +1000 Subject: MR2 For Australia: Toyota Show and Shine 2nd March Hi Aussies There is a All Toyota show and shine on March 2nd in Sydney somewhere. Im bringing my Mk1, my Brother Kevin is bringing the AE86 Sprinter and we may decide to bring Dad's Lexus SC400. E mail me if you are interested. Seeya Robin San 89 Mk1 NA ------------------------------ From: "Tommy Guttmann" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:31:50 -0500 Subject: MR2 Turned Rotors My opinion on turning rotors (especially cross drilled ones) is that this is not a good idea. Discs act as giant Heat Sinks, whose function is to absorb, then dissipate heat as quickly as possible. When they're thinner, its obvious that they'll get even hotter than if they're full thickness. As for turning Cross Drilled rotors, this is outrageous and can be dangerous. I've experienced cracked (from improper stress relief) cross drilled rotors on more than one occasion. Imagine their resistance to heat when they're even thinner ! Besides, haven't we already heard enough complaints about rotor warpage ? This will only be exaggerated with thinner, turned ones. Frankly, I'd rather cough up the few bucks for new Aftermarket rotors any day, than try to hang on to the OEs by turning them. Unless you're doing it to reduce unsprung weight (Ha !),IMHO, turning rotors is a fix meant for Taxis and other service vehicles, not for HiPo cars. We drop lots of $$$ on hop up mods, then want to save a couple of $$ on this... Makes no sense. Just my .02 Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada http://www.tooltech.qc.ca/ tel (514)633-6644 fax (514)633-1680 Mk1 SC ------------------------------ From: Phil Cutajar Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #813, MR2 Performance Products web site I just took a look at John Broderick's new web site, and it looks pretty good. However, the link for "engine modifications" doesn't work, I got a 404 - URL not found. It also would be nice if there were pictures of the wheels listed under "Wheels & dressup items". - -- Phil Cutajar 93 MR2-T, Arctic White mailto:cutajar@ibm.net ------------------------------ From: Phil Cutajar Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:52:20 -0500 Subject: MR2 MKII fog lights Greetings, Due to a parking lot mishap before I bought the MR2, one of my OEM fog lights is brand new, while the other one is the original. The problem is that the lens on the original is very badly pitted and dull. Does anyone know of any way to polish the lens, or if it is possible to just buy a new lens? I don't really want to replace the entire unit for this, but if I don't have any other choice then what would it cost to buy just one fog light? - -- Phil Cutajar 93 MR2-T, Arctic White mailto:cutajar@ibm.net ------------------------------ From: Matt Gawlowski Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:17:01 -0800 Subject: MR2 pictures from Nor Cal Rally I've created a webpage containing pictures from last Sunday's Nor Cal Rally; you can view them at: http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/8906/rally021697.html Or access them from my new homepage. - -Matt G., '91 White NA http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/8906/frames.html ------------------------------ From: Mark Nias Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:25:02 +0000 Subject: MR2: TEST - PLEASE IGNORE test - -=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=- Mark Nias markn@daneel.demon.co.uk or markn@jsb.co.uk http://www.daneel.demon.co.uk '85 Toyota MR2 (Red/93k Miles) (Koni Adjustables & Spax SportSprings soon) MR2 Drivers Club Member Pentium 133 16/850 - Apple LC630 20/350 - Atari TT030 12/540 - Atari VCS2600 Atari STe 16Mhz+68881 4/212 - Atari VCS7800 - Atari JaguarCD - Sony PlayStation - -=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=- ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey Ho See Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 08:39:24 -0800 Subject: MR2 Turbo Re:Pete's SoapBox, VPC versus AFC At 11:43 PM 2/17/97 -0600, P. Feret wrote: >Hmmm. This tells me lots of nothing. Did you notice they changed the >subject???? SHOW ME DYNO numbers before I plop down $1,000+ on these >guys' (some other speed shops included) recommendations. Didn't we >already discuss that 300HP is reasonable, but anything more is tough to >do??? I have the Apex Super AFC literature with a 3S-GTE chart in front of me. It's in Japanese though. You're welcomed to drive to Irvine and talk to Dynamic Autosports about the Apex gear. The Apex US rep is in Orange County as well. The chart shows about a gain of +14.2 ps and it is only from about 120km/h to 200km/h. Can someone convert these units for us ignorant types in the USA? And some of us wanna shoot for more than 300hp. ;D As for dyno numbers to prove what works and what doesn't, you can talk to Phil Lee or Brian Sakata as they've been there and done that with all the Japanese equipment. According to Phil, Brian has all the dyno print outs for the car w/ various gear. >Remember that *supposed* guy in SanFran with the MR2 JapImport who >had something like 450hp+ and would drag ANYONE!?!?!? I must have missed that one. >operated.) OK,OK,OK I'm being harsh. I just hate to see these guys in >action, only cause I was stupid enough to listen...HKS exhaust for >EXAMPLE. It sucks just as others have found out AFTER putting the $500+ >down on it for 10 lousy HP. Somehow this is Fuel Computer related right? >Here's a little recap of the best mods 4 the $$ for a MR2 Turbo. [power mods listed for brevity] >--New Cap and rotor (cause the one Toyota makes only lasts for 4 weeks.) >--Air Filter. (Get one, you'll know why then.) >--Intercooler Fan(s) ('cause Marc is the *cool* man) >--Boost Controller (there's more boost just waiting to be had...) >--Intercooler (its what you put between your 'Bud and your sandwich) >--Straight-Pipe Exhaust for weight... (only if Johnny Law allows) >--No Cats (only if you have a get out of jail card FREE) >--NOS. (only for guys like Matt G. :-D ) Well w/o the NOS you still got a car that will do... what? High 13s? Sure that's great, but when you wanna bring the car to the low 13 high 12 second area you're gonna have to start addressing fuel delivery aside from the stock parameters if you're running big boost. >Wow. Listen to me! Quiet since October and WHEW have I got some mouth >these days...I got some-kinda wild hair... Sorry for the long annoying >thread... I'll go to bed now... Perhaps I can illuminate the situation further. There's some kind of controversy whether or not the Bosch MAF is restrictive. Clearly two different import speed shops both say the Bosch MAF isn't restrictive until 350-400hp. That's good because I'd hate to have to get a HK$ VPC just to see 300hp. All I've heard on the list is people bemoan the Bosch MAF and say hastily the VPC replaces it but costs a small fortune. Then everyone dreams about some hot wire replacement for someone to engineer for much less money. Now that Apex has hit the US with their electronics, the question for me becomes "Does their fuel computer, the Super AFC, do a better job than the HKS VPC and the GCC?" (which the AFC is minus the MAF replacement w/ speed density equip.) The Apex AFC is $450 I believe. Relatively cheap in the electronics market (especially considering a HKS VPC is $1k and a GCC is another $400) It was also interesting to note that SpeedTek claimed the 3S-GTE manifold was restrictive. They're building a custom manifold for it. And if you didn't catch their little blurb, they have a Mr2 running high 12 second passes w/o the giggle gas. NOS is a cheap way to go fast, but I just want to keep filling the gas tank and not the blue bottle. I don't know where you got the idea that the speed shops were trying to push HKS/Apex gear on us stage 0 or stage 1 guys. I asked a couple of questions and shared their answers with you. If that upsets you so much, I'll keep all the info to myself next time. - - Jeffrey p.s. Get more sleep before reading your email. ;D ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #817