mr2-digest Saturday, December 27 1997 Volume 02 : Number 027 MR2 Re: IMOC / SOGI -- WTF?!? Relax! MR2 MKII - speakers Re: MR2 mkII Coolant Flush Re: MR2 Re: IMOC / SOGI -- WTF?!? Relax! Re:MR2 mkII Coolant Flush MR2 IMOC / SOGI -- WTF?!? Relax! MR2 $$ of 89SC MR2 $$ of 89SC - oops MR2 coolant flush interval MR2 Re: Checking Timing, Fuel Pressure on Mk-II Turbo MR2 all MK2 exhaust manifold owners!! MR2 Mk2 exhaust manifold MR2 MkI: Brooklands MR2 Book Is Sold! MR2 MKII Turbo Spark Plug Gap Problem? MR2 Alternator Specs MR2 Re: MKII Shifters & Knobs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 16:50:11 -0800 From: Karen or Jeffrey Subject: MR2 Re: IMOC / SOGI -- WTF?!? Relax! I know Patrick Smith well, and I've met w/ Jeff Montigny once. So I think this whole situation is getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outta hand. I never saw the reported-flames Patrick saw, but from what I can see on the Supra list -- it's looks like they have some kinda list-filter to show non-subscribers posting to the list. Also, I don't think I ever saw Patrick's invitation to the Supra list for the Willow event. So it's not hard to imagine that MAYBE an invitation look like SPAM, and MAYBE a scolding looked like a hardcore flaming. First the stubborn 5S-FE owners, then the RiceBoy Toyota Mod flame war, and now some kinda wedge between MR2s and Supras!?!? This is EXACTLY the kinda crap I'd EXPECT to read on the Honda Performance Mailing List. To see it happening on two Toyota enthusiast mailing lists is very disappointing! RELAX FELLAS! New Year's is coming and let's try to let 1997 the year of Hell die peacefully. I'm very annoyed right now, because I just got into a sidewalk verbal altercation. Some moron put his license plate screws into the rental car I'm driving. The driver insinuated he would harm me after I requested his driver's license, and he drove off. So beware of easily irritable moron driving a teal light green Geo w/ plate "2UDE831" in San Francisco. Oh he happens to live in 555 Arguello if you're asking (cross street @ about Geary) And to top it off, my little puppy that I've been nurturing all week is @ the vet REALLY sick. There are MORE important things to be worried about. - - Jeffrey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:39:31 +0800 From: Ivan Wong Subject: MR2 MKII - speakers I don't have the 3 in 1 CD stereo, I am wondering, what is the size of the speakers mounted at the wall left and right behind the seats? What is the largest size of speakers that you guys had tried? I had changed the 4" speakers on each door to 6.5" and they worked great. Regards, iVan 91 Red 3SGE 51000km ------------------------------ Date: 27 Dec 1997 01:14:56 -0000 From: Felix Morley Finch Subject: Re: MR2 mkII Coolant Flush >>In article <34A44DA2.7513@pacbell.net>, Randy Chase writes: > A guy I knew that was a radiator specialist told me that most people > make the mistake of not routinely servicing thier radiator every year by > flushing it. He said in the long run, most problems were caused by this > lack of maintenance. We were having this conversation when I had my 6 yr > old Supra's radiator rodded out. I flush mine every fall to winterize it (Reno NV). Maybe it doesn't matter in non-freezing climates. Maybe you should summerize it in San Diego so it doesn't boil in the heat, maybe some sunscreen. Hmm...do you do anything special for the cupholders? :-) - -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com PGP = 91 B3 94 7C E9 E8 76 2D E1 63 51 AA A0 48 89 2F I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 17:23:43 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 Re: IMOC / SOGI -- WTF?!? Relax! Well said Jeffrey. I was thinking the same thing. A non-member submission would get rejected and the list owner than tells the submitter to join the list if they want to submit. A very fair statement, but one that could be misconstrued. But then you said.. > First the stubborn 5S-FE owners, What!..is this some kinda flame?!11 I'll tell you... *joke* Seriously..sorry to hear about the latest in your "YOH" Year Of Hell.. Keep in mind that there are still 5 days left in 1997. You might want to stay in. 8) Randy Chase "the guy who sold his Supra to buy a 5S-FE Mr2" I would buy the newest Supra (bulbous butt and all) in a heartbeat *if* I thought it was competitve in SCCA SoloII. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:57:48 EST From: Conti64542 Subject: Re:MR2 mkII Coolant Flush In a message dated 97-12-26 19:56:42 EST, you write: > I was in a Toyota Dealership today asking about the 60k service. They handed > me a flyer detailing maintenance items on a 5k, 10k, 15k, etc. service. > Anyway, they list a coolant flush every 15K! Surely this is a rip! I would > guess that the coolant does not need flushing more often than every 60K! > What do ya'll think, should I have changed the coolant every every 15k? Brad, My old rule of thumb was that the coolant gets changed at least every other year. Miles don't really affect coolant. In fact ffor anti-freeze/boil, coolant will last forever It is heat/cool cycles that deplete it of the rust inhibitors, etc. If you travel lots of short trips, you need to change the stuff more often than the driver who commutes 70 miles each way. I'm 750 miles from the book right now, but I think that the manual for my 93 NA says, under "severe" conditions (and, I think most of us drive our car under what Toyota considers severe), after the first 36 months, it should be changed every year or 15K (remember, cooling system failure is the #1 cause of highway breakdowns). Under "normal" conditions, I think it is 24/30K. More important, have them refer to the BGB before they start. The last dealer I took my car to drained the front, but not the rear until I pointed out the correct procedure. In short, it won't hurt: it rarely hurts (except in the wallet in the short run) to do maintenance more frequently than *absolutely* needed. (Then again, most people with >200K miles on an engine change the oil more frequently than every 7500 miles.) At least you know that your belts/hoses will be looked at fairly frequently. - -Renni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:23:17 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 IMOC / SOGI -- WTF?!? Relax! > I know Patrick Smith well, and I've met w/ Jeff Montigny once. > So I think this whole situation is getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay > outta hand. then dont get involved if you REALLY feel so. > I never saw the reported-flames Patrick saw, but from > what I can see on the Supra list -- it's looks like they > have some kinda list-filter to show non-subscribers > posting to the list. if you need i will submitt the post made by your good friend (patrick) regarding these events. or better yet ask him. dont know bout any filters nor do i care. im merely responding to a situation that apparently arose without your knowledge. maybe thats the pisser. > Also, I don't think I ever saw Patrick's invitation > to the Supra list for the Willow event. oh well. > So it's not hard to imagine that MAYBE an invitation > look like SPAM, and MAYBE a scolding looked like a hardcore > flaming. which spam, which invitation? the supra or the willows event? or the interplay between the two? > RELAX FELLAS! New Year's is coming and let's try to let > 1997 the year of Hell die peacefully. lets not over react now jeffery. it looks like things have worked out nicely without you. im cool. i think Jeff is cool and patrick... i have not heard from. > I'm very annoyed right now, because I just got into a sidewalk > verbal altercation. Some moron put his license plate > screws into the rental car I'm driving. The driver insinuated > he would harm me after I requested his driver's license, and > he drove off. So beware of easily irritable moron driving a > teal light green Geo w/ plate "2UDE831" in San Francisco. > Oh he happens to live in 555 Arguello if you're asking > (cross street @ about Geary) maybe you should take it out on a passerby than overreacting to this situation that has never risen to the level that you are lending it to. leave the shit at the door or scrape your boot off. sorry if i sound a little harsh but ck the attitude b4 getting behind the keyboard. > And to top it off, my little puppy that I've been nurturing > all week is @ the vet REALLY sick. this is all really touching but it has nothing to do with the past situation that has come to a mutually respectful, understanding, peaceful conclusion. follow the thread ALL the way through, and ck the shit at the door. > There are MORE important things to be worried about. agreed lets go forward- terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 21:35:48 -0500 From: ms366246 Subject: MR2 $$ of 89SC The sale of my 89SC is a possibility, now that I have two kids. I am weighing the possibility of keeping it, but I don't know if I can. I thought I might ask you guys on this list what you guys think I could get for it if I sold it. 89 SC Super Red ~120,000 miles I am the 2nd owner, I have the original window sticker, and all records. BGB included The usual - power windows & locks, AC, T-Tops (w/liners & cases), but no cruise Georgia car (no rust), only minor dings, etc. Modifications: Koni shocks ST swaybars Hella Lights Sony Radio Tires: (2 Sets) Yokohama A 509 185/60 - 14 BFG R1 205/55 - 14 Wheels: (2 sets) SC Teardrop 4 (+1 bent, but repairable) 14 x 6 Toyota "basketweave" 14 x 6 I have all the orginal swaybars, radio, etc. This car has been autox'd for the last 3 years, winning the Atlanta region AS in 95, and second in ASP in 97. I have kept it in the best shape I could afford. It runs great, and has no problems. I may sell the BFG's separately with the basketweave wheels, the R1's have quite a few runs on them, but they are in good shape, too. I'll probably sell them locally for $300 or so (tires and wheels) Let me know what you think I might be able to get for it. Thanks, Jeff Brugger Hard Disk Cafe Consultants for Digital Audio & Macintosh hdcafe@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 97 21:38:11 -0500 From: ms366246 Subject: MR2 $$ of 89SC - oops Ooops, I knew I would forget something, it also has Stillen SS brake lines, and Stillen x drilled rotors on the front. Thanks, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:12:08 -0800 From: william brandt Subject: MR2 coolant flush interval 15K is crazy unless accumulated in 2-3 years. most mgrs 9including Toyota0 recommend 30K. MBZ is 3 years/36K which is reasonable. the dealer is just rrying to pad his services which for most cars is no big deal (coolant flush). On an MR2 it's a big deal. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 01:22:59 -0500 From: Dave Inskeep Subject: MR2 Re: Checking Timing, Fuel Pressure on Mk-II Turbo Geoff, Thanks for responding. I did manage to find it after poking around from underneath and then realizing that I would need to take the RH engine cover off. My timing marks looked a little different from the book though. The book shows the marks on the 3S-GTE as being four equal marks, 0 to 10 degrees from front to back. Mine is four marks, with the third from the front larger and more emphasized than the other three. Kind of strange, you would think that the fourth and nominal 10 degree mark would be bigger, if any were. My timing came out to about midway between the third and fourth marks, which I guess would make it around 8 or 8.5 degrees. I have a fair amount of pinging under acceleration, do you think it would be advisable to retard it (move it more towards 0) to get rid of the pinging? The ESA seems to work, you can hear the pinging disappear after a second on some long uphills with a steady foot on the throttle, but it can't quite seem to cope with WOT on flat ground and some uphills with part throttle. Could there be something wrong somewhere else somewhere else in the ESA system? The pinging is really bothering me, I worry that it's damaging the engine. >Is the gauge does 30-60psi then it'll work. I've *finally* got my Cyberdyne >fuel pressure gauge hooked up and fuel pressure ranges from ~29psi at idle >to ~60psi at WOT. Did your gauge come with a fitting to connect to Toyotas, or can I just tap in anywhere that I can get a fitting for? The gauges I looked at all have a Schrader valve fitting, but that seems to be more common on the domestics, not Toyotas and such. Isn't 60 psi way out of normal range? The book quoted 38 psi as the max, or do you have some mods changing that? Or perhaps that's Canadian psi, not US? ;) Would a higher-than-normal fuel pressure at idle cause the car to run rich? I think that's currently one of my car's problems, based on the Vf1 terminal reading (~0.2 volts). Thanks again, Dave '91T with 70k miles that is really determined to spend this winter motionless in the garage.:-( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:37:18 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 all MK2 exhaust manifold owners!! troy ! paul ! jefferson V ! all MK2 3S-GTE and 5S-FE owners- just got back from KMT (Kearney Mesa Toyota) here in san diego (my home dealer) to pick up another hood prop clip. i go through these like santa goes through elves (over worked under paid union boyz). it was closing time and i was able to snag a mech to listen to my "ticking" to varify my egr tube. its the tube (second one too). cool. guy did it on his way out to his car and off the clock no less!! got to talking to the service manager (denny politee) about the exhaust manifold thingy. here is the deal (in short): in california UNTIL 1998 thats in a few days!!! if you: have 3S-GTE your exhaustmanifold is covered 7 yrs/70K. this is in Cal and in Mass. this is a factory "Defect" and is at Toyota cost ~600.00. your cost if you DONT get it fixed in time 1998 ~1000+. the rules change in 1998 (in a few days) to "specified" exhaust componets. denny has no idea why they (toyota) is doing this "specified" thingy. he suspects toyota wants to keep th einfo under control and the dealers have to call in to find out the "specified" componets. he is checking into it and i will contact him on monday. another thing...1997 the emissions warranty went to 3 yrs 50k down from 5yrs 50k. toyota must be trying to plug the hole (yes its a pun). have a 5S-FE motor your 7/70k (ca and mass) "Exhaust pipe (manifold to catalyst and/or catalyst to catalyst) on tercel; paseo.....MR2....with 3S-FE or 5S-FE." is covered. but then again under the new 1998 pocketbook it is subject to the "specified" terminology whatever this means. i personally get very suspicious of this kind of vague language. this info was garnished from the "1997 WARRANTY POCKET HANDBOOK", pg.32. i had them (denny) make a copy of this page and have it in my possession. what i need is someone with a fax machine, a scanner and a web page for posting. or i can fax it directly to you if needed. ill try to fax it to myself and email it but the quality is questionable as ive done this before with bad results. best path fax/scan/post. copy it and take it to your service person wave it in his/her face and say "fix it!" (before 1998) excuse the announce but this constitutes a possible $1000 savings to a cal or mass mr2 owner. my advice get into the dealer and get it done NOW!!! before 1998. hell at least get it documented that this is the problem and have it dated in 1997. btw- the egr tube is 44+ bucks not 30 as i thought. your sort of humble servant terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:21:08 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 Mk2 exhaust manifold ok... looks like we have our man Jefferson taking over the warrany advert duties. next his url for public viewage of the coveted warranty info. jeff, i'll settle on a "free lunch" at the magic mountian run. (i owe randy chase lunch....the torch is passed) for saving you 1000-1200 smackers. its yours from here, my man! remember food and sex: the common denominators, buy you lunch? terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:51:26 -0500 From: Jon or Cary Robinson Subject: MR2 MkI: Brooklands MR2 Book Is Sold! Hi All, Just wanted to let you know that Mr. Bernie Long will be the sole recipient of my extra Brookland's MR2 '84-'88 book. I received want mail from four others. I feel bad that I don't have enough copies for everyone else. I'll check my local bookstore for more copies Monday to possibly do a mass purchase. I'll keep y'all informed. Jon Robinson White '91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:57:14 +1300 From: Trevor Johnston Subject: MR2 MKII Turbo Spark Plug Gap Problem? Hi, I decided to replace the Spark Plugs in my Japanese Spec MKII MR2 Turbo before I go on Holiday. I was Kind of Pissed at having to pay $85 NZ and that was at Trade Price- Retail was 100 bux- for spark plugs!. Anyhow, the new spark plugs had a gap of approx. .65mm (millimetres) out of the box and the old ones that came out of the car were very similar, so I decided not to adjust the gap any. However my Mister Two now seems to be idling at about 500rpm as opposed to the 800rpm before, and acceleration seems to have *decreased* if anything. So do I *increase* the gap- and if so by how much?. The car is running OK at the moment but I am going on a long trip on Sunday for a week and I need to get it running properly before then. Thanks - ---- Trevor Johnston Principal New Zealand Franchise Advisory Bureau E-mail: nzfab@es.co.nz. Web Site: http://www.es.co.nz/nzfab - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 23:58:18 -0600 From: Kory Yingling Subject: MR2 Alternator Specs Help I definatley NEED a new alternator ASAP! Everwhere I go, Pep Boys, AutoZone, Chief, Gateway all tell me I have a 70 AMP alternator according to my 2.0L Turbo, 5 speed, no P/S config. I took my alternator apart cleaned it thoroughly, removing all grease. I discovered the brushes where about gone and the rotor was not in good health either from the brushes eating into it. But I DO INDEED have either an 80AMP or 100AMP alternator according to the BRUSH HOLDER I have. I rebuilt in clean adjusting the brushes so they might make a little better contact with the rotor contact area in hopes it will get me through till I find a replacement/rebuild it. WHERE CAN I FIND A CHEAP PROPER ALTERNATOR? I ordered one from Gateway (He quoted me $95?? Does this sound right?) Other places quoted me like $175-$210, and the dealership wants like $330!! I think I can just replace the brushes SHORT TERM, and need to replace the rotor also considering how worn the contact area for the brushes is if I decide to rebuild it all and not get a new one.. Another question. Each place I had this tested said the DIODE TRIO was bad or on its way out. is this the IC Regulator or the rectifier?? Thanks Kory any quick direct responses MORE THAN WELCOME! MERRY CHRISTMAS! and HAPPY NEW YEAR (that is not easy to add considering my baby's unconscious) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 21:08:52 -0500 From: "Dean M. Fujita" Subject: MR2 Re: MKII Shifters & Knobs > >The Momo knob is shorter, but it won't give an overall shorter lever. >The stock knob screws way down over the lever so that with either knob >the top of the lever is about 1" from the top of the knob, so the >overall length is the same either way -- the stock knob just covers more >of the shaft. > >I had a '93 shifter with a Momo knob in my '91T for the last couple of >months and I loved it. But today I reinstalled the original shifter and >knob to keep the car stock class autox legal. I also installed a Ken >Farrell leather shift boot and an HKS turbo timer while I had the >interior disassembled. > >Brad Burns >'91T >'93NA > Santa just got me a cool Sparco knob yesterday & it was installed today with the KF leather shift boot (and some Sparco pedals). Installation of the knob was simple but I'm not completely satisfied with it (I'm kinda anal when it comes to my car). The knob installs with 3 small set screws which are covered by a little "trim ring" which screws up to the knob. That ring is the problem. The stock knob is threaded and screws down tight against the top of the shift boot. The Sparco knob (which is similar to all the Momo knobs) is secured with the small screws and then the trim ring is screwed upward leaving the top of the shift boot loose and about 1/4 to 1/2" of the shaft exposed. I'm thinking of filling the inside of the shift knob with resin or something and tapping it so that it screws down like the stock knob; or drilling holes in the trim ring so that I can get to the set screws last. Anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks, hope you all had a wonderful Christmas and Best Wishes for a great '98. Dean Fujita '93T ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #27