mr2-digest Monday, August 10 1998 Volume 02 : Number 1259 Re: MR2 mkII - Mounting a SPAL decklid fan Re: MR2 cranky update MR2 ABS merits.. Locking up in the dry. Re: MR2 Mustang posts MR2 shocking turn of events MR2 no mime please Re: MR2 ABS merits.. Locking up in the dry. MR2 re: cops and ABS MR2 re: AFC and MkI? Re: MR2 MK2 FS UK - Convertible MR2 rim size A MR2, a Lotus V8, BMW 318, BMW 328, and a Mustang 5.0 Re: MR2 Vinyl Roof MR2 Wheel Spacers Re: MR2 re: ABS and the merits of it.. RE: MR2 MK2T Running Too Rich - Go AFC Re: MR2 and Mustang Owner comments Re: MR2 re: cops and ABS MR2 unsubscribe MR2 mk1, no sparks from igntion coil when warm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:54:09 -0700 From: "Ken Blake" Subject: Re: MR2 mkII - Mounting a SPAL decklid fan OOPS, wrong link, try this one. http://mr2.com/TEXT/MkIIEngineFans.html Ken 91 Turbo >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Blake >To: nmccoy1042@worldnet.att.net ; mr2 digest > >Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 1:46 PM >Subject: Re: MR2 mkII - Mounting a SPAL decklid fan > > >>http://mr2.com/TEXT/DualIntercoolerFan.html >>Ken >>91 Turbo >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nmccoy1042@worldnet.att.net >>To: mr2 digest >>Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 1:23 PM >>Subject: MR2 mkII - Mounting a SPAL decklid fan >> >> >>>I have an extra 7" spal fan laying around, and decided to mount it on my >>decklid, at the opening. >>>If anyone else has done this, how did you attach the fan to the decklid? >>>I tried using two aluminum bars, but after two hours of bending the >suckers >>they still will not fit between the decklid ant its raincatcher thingy. I >am >>trying to avoid using zip ties, as I do not want them showing from uotside >>the car. Any ideas folks? >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Brad McCoy >>>93t >>> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:05:18 -0400 From: John Keller Subject: Re: MR2 cranky update Betty Not so weird, your starter circuit has a BAD CONNECTION that could be (probably IS) in your STARTER itself. Have someone you trust, check the battery cable connections for corrosion and TIGHTNESS, check the battery cables ON THE OTHER ENDS as well, if these are "good", replace the starter. John Keller 88SC betty wrote: > I discovered that sometimes if I hold the key in the Start > position for a long time (some seconds) the starter will > eventually start cranking (very weakly), and I can try to > get it to turn over. When this happens, it sets > error code 6 (RPM switch: distributor, distributor circuit, > starter circuit). > > I don't like holding the key in the start position that > long though; will it hurt anything? Is gas flowing when > I do that? :( > > It still occasionally starts perfectly. Weird. > > Back to work... > Meg > 85 Cyber Beige :) MR2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:03:54 -0500 From: dkchal@datasync.com (Donald K Chalfant) Subject: MR2 ABS merits.. Locking up in the dry. The reason the po-liceman teaches this is that most people are not skilled enough to modulate the brakes for maximum stopping effectiveness. Although wheels sliding have a lower coefficient of friction (with the pavement) than the wheel rolling on the pavement, it takes lots of practive to know the threshold of brake lock for your car. Most folks (normal dolts, nerds, and your Mommas and Daddys) are better off just nailing the brakes and screaming and cursing. >It is true (according to Suffolk Traffic Police), and it is what the Police >Driver Trainers told us (non ABS and in the dry). I questioned this also, >asking why we were taught to pump the brakes when locking up in any >conditions. Hey, I guess you'll have loads of police cars smashing into >the back of you if you come to the UK then... > >Who can disprove it? Any data/sites anyone has seen? (I'm interested - >not just trying to be awkward!). Skidding lengthens distances in the wet >for sure - but are we SURE it's the same in the dry???? There would be a >lot more friction against the surface... > >Any ideas??? > >Ian >87 t-bar (leaving long black streaks in the dry!) > >(any comment Nick?) > - - The Strawberry Kid 8-} May the Seeds be with you. 6na9sc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:19:30 -0400 From: John Keller Subject: Re: MR2 Mustang posts This guy reminds me of James Carville, I read RACER MP is in Wash, D.C., so maybe Carville's split personality (James & the demon Lucifer gave him with his "deal" with the devil ) is rebeling. Racer MP wrote: haha, this obviously tells me that you are neither a racer nor knows > what you're talking about. > > considering the huge aftermarket modifications available for the > Mustang, i still wouldn't say that i can beat anyone's MR2 w/o seeing > under the hood or racing it first.... > > you're a wannabe babe > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:19:27 -0500 From: dkchal@datasync.com (Donald K Chalfant) Subject: MR2 shocking turn of events >Does this mean that if you use an all-metal ignition key, then you are >automatically grounded when you turn off the ignition? > >Keith Jarett >keith@nsx.org Well, yes it does for then Keith. But unless you can levitate yourself out of the drivers seat you are going to build up a static charge when you dismount. Just hang on to some part of the car that is grounded while getting out (you'll soon find out which are and which aren't) 8-} - - The Strawberry Kid 8-} May the Seeds be with you. 6na9sc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:23:47 -0500 From: dkchal@datasync.com (Donald K Chalfant) Subject: MR2 no mime please >Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 04:33:58 +0100 >From: "Ray Davis" >Subject: MR2 : Turbo 94 or 96 which one? > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >- ----- - - The Strawberry Kid 8-} May the Seeds be with you. 6na9sc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:37:43 -0400 From: Mark Sink Subject: Re: MR2 ABS merits.. Locking up in the dry. Donald K Chalfant wrote: > > The reason the po-liceman teaches this is that most people are not skilled > enough to modulate the brakes for maximum stopping effectiveness. Right. So... Tax money is being spent on driving instructors who are being paid to tell cops essentially. "Hey, even though you are paying me to teach you how to drive, you are not skilled enough to do this right, so just lock'em up!" If the instructor isn't going to teach, what is he being paid for? I think a 3 yr old could probably mutter the words "lock'em up". And just as a correction, since it looks like you took this a step further. The policeman isn't telling anyone to lock them up. It was the Police instructor (the guy teaching the police) to lock'em up! mark sink ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:32:51 -0400 From: Ben Rowley Subject: MR2 re: cops and ABS I'd just like to point out that Philly has initiated a special program to assist its pigs...er, police in preventing police/civilian and police/police accidents. Apparently, this wonderful city that I've moved to has one of the highest ratios of these accidents per capita in the country. I remember one that happened just recently, where two officers in separate cars rushing to the scene of a shooting collided with each other. Makes you feel very protected, doesn't it? Oh, one more note: the drivers of the police vehicles are rarely punished for such incidents. What a crock! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:36:40 -0400 From: Ben Rowley Subject: MR2 re: AFC and MkI? Great news for the MkII crowd, but I'm considering using this product in my MkI when I get the engine rebuilt (and jacked up!) in the spring. I've heard that the individual dials go from green to red illumination as the injectors reach 100% duty...is this true? Does each dial equal the setting for the different RPM range? And how hard was this thing to hook up, really? Where did you mount it? Finally, who's got experience with the air/fuel ratio meters? I've heard that the only things you need to hook them up are the required 12V hot lead, ground, and a hookup from the O2 sensor. Any info? Wouldn't it be amazing to see that these products have uses in normally aspirated twos? ;^) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:38:58 GMT From: daryl@darlyb.demon.co.uk (Daryl Baker) Subject: Re: MR2 MK2 FS UK - Convertible A bit more about this car, its the TRD Spider conversion, checkout the page at http://www.din.or.jp/~h-satou/sw20-spider.html Cheers DarlyB 88 SC + mods www.darlyb.demon.co.uk/mr2sc/index.htm My 2 www.darlyb.demon.co.uk/rc5desii/index.htm RC5 Cracking Team ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:44:22 -0700 From: Catherine Liao Subject: MR2 rim size hi all, Will 13" rims fit on a MKII?? I'm thinking of abandoning my stock 14" and go to 13" for autox tires. However, I've never seen any '2 drivers w/ 13" rims on their cars. Any ideas why? Thanks. - -Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:46:34 EDT From: Tauns@aol.com Subject: A MR2, a Lotus V8, BMW 318, BMW 328, and a Mustang 5.0 I own the MR2. No, the rest are not the cars I own, but the cars I saw wrecked this past Saturday at a Road Atlanta track day. This is the highest attrition rate I've ever seen at a track day...and I've seen quite a few track days over the years. Jack Kramer came down from Columbia SC, but unfortunately brought his Gen II RX7 instead of his MR2...so once again I had the only MR2 there. Com'on folks...this is getting lonely! Jack has a nicely set up RX7 though...very fast in the corners. Anyway, great track day except for the owners of the above cars :-( Two wrecks in turn one, both hitting the inner wall, a really spectacular spin by the lotus coming out of turn 12 and smacking the pit lane wall, and one in the esses, again hitting a wall. Road Atlanta is being "improved" and that means they have added concrete walls everywhere there use to be nice dirt runoffs. Looks a lot more like Mid Ohio now, and no longer suitable for the driving impaired. The three wrecks I witnessed were all due to people getting in over their heads...way, way way, over their heads. The Lotus driver lifted in the corner & then gassed it...I guess MR2s aren't the only things that can spin when you lift. It did rain a little, and with street tires and ABS, I had a blast catching a few R1/RA1 non ABS cars...they do really well is light rain, but there is no substitute for a little tread in heavier rain, and no substitute for ABS when you have a nice TR6 laying down both a smoke screen and oil slick in the rain...no, none of the wrecks occured in the heavy rain... I had a lot of fun, almost spun in turn 3, but caught it (even in my "impaired" stock 92) but need to upgrade my stock suspension to keep up with all the modified hardware & race tires...though I surprised a few by catching them in the straights, and catching them again in the rain! I wish a few MR2s would show up...a great place to practice your driving...IF you've taken a driving school, and have no illusions that you are "the Best", or the need to try to prove it. Phil 92T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:51:28 -0400 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: Re: MR2 Vinyl Roof >>About a month ago I saw (for the 1st time) a red mk1 with a black vinyl >roof >>and opera lights, in my neighborhood. Since then, I see it every few days., >but never >>caught an actual glimpse of the driver... > >You've got to get a photo of this car. The caption could be "and you >thought riceboys were bad". Sounds like the car also needs some 13" skinny >gold-plated wheels, a welded chain steering wheel, tuck-and-roll velvet >upholstery, some wide gold trim around the wheel arches, and a mural of a >naked lady on the hood to complete the look. That would be so bitchin'. It's bad enough that the Opera Lights were functional on the c-pillars were actually functional. BTW...the wheels were fake "wire" hub caps, but surprisingly on what looked like 15s. Tommy Guttmann Montreal, Canada 2 x MR2 SC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:52:38 -0700 From: Jason Dewolfe Subject: MR2 Wheel Spacers For those of you who are/were interested in the wheel spacers, I have a set (actually 2) of the 1" spacers. These will fit MKII's (I think MKI's have a 4 lug pattern). Let me know if you want them, I already have mine. Jason Dewolfe 91T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:01:11 -0400 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: Re: MR2 re: ABS and the merits of it.. >> I went to a Police Skidpan in Ipswich for some training - the guys >> instructing us were Police driver trainers. They said in the dry LOCK your >> wheels, you will stop faster. If anyone should know, they should... it's >> what they tell their drivers. > >That is not true. Maybe this instructor worked on the side for Goodyear, >or Yokohama, or some other tire company. You say: If anyone should know, >they should. ??? I suspect there may be some confusion here Mark... Most "schools" do instruct to actually stand on and fully lock up the brakes.... BUT only AFTER you've totally lost control and are going "off" or are going to crash anyway...just to lower the speed and minimize impact as much as possible. It's obvious there is no possibility of control with sliding wheels so this is only to be done once it's really lost and all hope of recovery is gone. Tommy Guttmann Montreal, Canada 2 x MR2 SC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 10:04:00 +1200 From: "Markham, Anthony" Subject: RE: MR2 MK2T Running Too Rich - Go AFC >Everybody knows the MK2 turbo runs very rich during WOT. >To overcome this I bought the HKS VPC for about US$900 to control >the fuel. However, the VPC has only two fuel controls - one for idle >and >one (Gain) for the entire RPM range. Even with the gain turned down to >minimum (minus14%), I was still running too rich. Not enough >adjustment. >This annoyed me because of the cost of the unit - HK$$$..... Hmmm, I was able to adjust the VPC to maintain an acceptable A/F ratio at WOT using a wide-band lambda meter on a chassis dyno. Admittedly this was with a TD-06 turbo, but an acceptable A/F ratio was achievable even at 10-11psi >So I just bought the APEXi AFC (Air Fuel Controller) for $320 with tax. >http://www.apexi-usa.com/eafc.htm >This an excellent unit for the price. >Each knob adjusts fuel by +/- 30% at 5 rpm levels : >800, 2400, 4000, 5600, 7200 rpm. Don't HKS do a similar unit (can't remember what it's called) that plugs into the VPC? >Using an air/fuel meter (Halmeter AF30, about $130) I set up the AFC at >4000rpm and above to remove excess fuel. My settings were about 18% >leaner, still giving a RICH reading of about 12.5:1 which is best for >max >power. Note the VPC was set back to 0. This is for 14psi on my car, >yours may vary. A dyno is the best way to set things up. At that price I'm guessing that the A/F meter uses a narrow band O2 sensor which is only accurate around 14:1. How did you get such a precise reading especially given the testing seems to have been done on the road? >I highly recommend the AFC, it's relatively cheap, easy to install (once >you find the right wires !!), easy to use (be careful though). I think the primary motivation for most VPC purchases is to get rid of the AFM and it's the speed density conversion that you're paying for, not the rudimentary fuel delivery adjustment. I agree that the price is high, but you do get a full plug-and-play loom and 2 sensors in addition to the electronics. As you mention above, the Apex AFC is not P&P and requires cutting and splicing of the ECU wires, not fun. In a later post you wrote: >In my opinion, the VPC is not worth the money. Maybe, maybe not, but it is the only readily available, plug-and-play option for replacing the AFM. Apparently Apex do have a VPC equivalent in the wings, it will be interesting to see how the pricing compares. > I don't think you gain much more power by removing the flapper valve, Any dyno data to substantiate that claim? I think there has been reasonable consensus on this list in the past that the AFM is indeed a significant restriction. >it just means your turbo works >a little bit more compressing the air. Which is no good thing, especially with the sphincter-like CT-26 > A Greddy intercooler is a much >better mod for the same price. Is this based on objective back-to-back testing? Anthony 90 MR2 GT (ex Japan) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:05:06 -0500 From: "Shawn C. Douglas" Subject: Re: MR2 and Mustang Owner comments kevin.adlaf@cp.Novartis.com wrote: > the Trans failed at 40,000 miles, air con failed, electical system > replaced, and the list goes on. Within the last several months I have Really ... a Ford with an electrical problem? What are the odds? ;-) Shawn Douglas 1993 MR2 NA 1994 Ranger Splash (no short circuits ... yet) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:18:49 -0700 From: Mike Chou Subject: Re: MR2 re: cops and ABS > Makes you feel very protected, doesn't it? Oh, one more note: the drivers > of the police vehicles are rarely punished for such incidents. What a > crock! I agree! I remember when a cop died chasing someone and flew off a highway off ramp and they wanted to charge the man being chased for manslaughter! And then there was the cop who was chasing someone, who then ran over and killed a woman. I didn't hear about any manslaughter charges then. That's about all I can say now without using cuss words. Mike C damn pigs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:27:06 -0400 From: Dave Swenson Subject: MR2 unsubscribe unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:52:56 -0400 From: "Paul Rowe" Subject: MR2 mk1, no sparks from igntion coil when warm Hello, everyone. Thanks to everyone who responded to my first post requesting for help on a stalling/won't start problem. This weekend I was able to apply a few of the many sound advices I received. Here are my findings, but first a quick recap. Car will start when it's cold but stalls out in 5-10 mins. Then won't start for at least 1/2 -1 hour, although it will crank. Then run for 5-10 mins again before stalling out. Check for sparks was the first thing I tried since most people suggested that. I tried the screwdriver in the spark plug wire trick but I don't think I am proficient enough for it so I bought a spark tester/checker. It's a device that emits small flashes when a spark is detected from either a spark plug wire or an ignition coil wire. After stalling out, I unhook the ignition coil from the distributor and inserted the spark tester into the ignition coil and tried to start the car. NO FLASHES. Waited an hour for the car to cool down. Tried it again. FLashes! Unhooked the igniton wire, inserted it back into the distributor cap, bingo, the car starts. Tried it one more time after stalling out. Again no flashes after stalling out. So I figured it's got to be the igniton module, or igniter/ignition coil, whatever you want to call it. The coil is the big, round, heavy cylindrical unit, right? And the igniter is the flat squarish piece that's bolted to the coil? Toyota wants upwards of $300 for the igniter!! Pep Boys sell the coil part (the round cylindrical part) for about 30 dollars although it looks a little different from the Toyota unit and I am not sure if the coil wire would fit into such a coil. Went to a junkyard in Newark this morning and searched for a used igniter/coil. Found one on a 85 MR2, mine is 87. Bought the whole set, coil and igniter. Removed it from the car and it looked almost identical, both a Denso unit. Toyota used Toshiba for some 87 models I was told by the Toyota service dept. Paid $40 for it and was told he would take it back if it doesn't work but only the same day. Installed the igniter/coil and still the same problem!! What gives? What could be causing the igniter/coil not to give off spark like this? I understand the igniter receives loads of information from the ECU, is that where I should be investigating now? Please any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Paul Rowe prowe@cnct.com ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #1259