mr2-digest         Saturday, August 15 1998         Volume 02 : Number 1296



MR2 Re: Wheel offset for MKIIT-Why?
Re: MR2 ES sway bar bushings
MR2 MK2T: FCD/test drive
MR2 Re:mr2 mki help
MR2 unsubscribe
Re: MR2 <gen> RX-7 power and how does it compare with a m
Re: MR2 re: cops and ABS
Re: MR2 sports cars
Re: MR2 bolt pattern and number - can we adjust?
Re: MR2 RE: -Identity Crisis, Mr2t
MR2 Re:Valentine discounts and 87 wires
MR2 re: <MKII> red paint fading
MR2 Winter Storage
Re:  MR2 re: <MKII> red paint fading/glad I'm blue!
MR2 HKS EVC
MR2 <GEN> Gentlemen Clubs, Vinyl Roofs and such...(long)
MR2 What to buy for MKII - Answer

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 19:14:45 +1000
From: "Marc Boomgaard" <mcboom@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: MR2 Re: Wheel offset for MKIIT-Why?

Guys what do you think of this ?
Should I put 16 inch wheels on the front and 17 inch wheels on the back ??
Thanks for your advice,
- -Marc

- ----------
> From: MR2914me@aol.com
> To: mcboom@ozemail.com.au
> Subject: Re:  Re: MR2 Re: Wheel offset for MKIIT-Why?
> Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 1:02 PM
> 
> 
> In a message dated 8/14/98 6:00:00 PM, you wrote:
> 
> <<Rob,
> 
> Do you mean to say that most mid-engined sports cars have different
wheels
> 
> sizes for front and back ?
> 
> I though it was just wider tires at the back ?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -Marc
> 
> >>
> 
> Marc, NO! Different size rims!! Trust me, just look at broshures. The MR2
was
> the only production car (that I know of) that didn't do it, and I'm not
sure
> why. Of course they used bigger tires in the rear (maybe a cheaper
attempt at
> staggering). It has to do with being mid-engine and being rear wheel
> drive--its an engineering thing related to handling. Thats why I'm going
to
> stagger the sizes--for better handling. If it is good enough for the
exotic
> mid-engines, then I'm game!
> 
> Rob '91 na w/cage [and soon to be 16" (F) & 17" (R)]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 05:20:19 EDT
From: Wade1972@aol.com
Subject: Re: MR2 ES sway bar bushings

In a message dated 8/14/98 12:26:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-
mr2-digest@mr2.com writes:

>My question is *should* the sway bar be able to move in it's bracket?  
>If it wasn't designed for this movement, wouldn't have Toyota (and others) 
>have engineered this into the OEM bracket/bar?
> 
> Anyone know the answer?
 
> BTW, My ST (rear) bar does move probably 1 to 1.5" inches back and 
> forth...
 
> Geoff
> '91t, 248,100km

Well, here's my theory...a Sway bars' purpose is to decrease the amount of
body sway.  If there were no play from side to side, you would have a solid
bar connected essentially creating the same effect as having solid aluminum
bushings and only the bar would flex (this isn't a bad thing but certainly not
recommended for street driving).   It seems to me that the bars moving would
create more tension on the bar creating better anti-sway...but it's just a
theory (and oh, don't follow me, I don't know where I'm going either but it's
sure fun getting there!)

Jason
85n/a
  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 14:27:20 -0700
From: Preman SARANATHAN <psar1@student.monash.edu.au>
Subject: MR2 MK2T: FCD/test drive

Hey chaps, Need to pick your collective brains

QUESTION 1
With regard to the fuel cut defencer mods.  I understand that the FCD is
to prevent the lack of fuel at high boost levels thereby preventing
detonation.  What I want to know is - WHY is there a fuel cut system in
place as stock anyway.  I mean it must be there for some reaon.  What is
the reason?

QUESTION 2
What points should I look at when test driving a 1994/1995 MR2 GT turbo
(Ex Japan), with a view to buying (not just tire kicking). In other
words what parts/systems are known to malfunction after 3-4 years of
use/abuse.

With thanks in advance

Prem

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:23:27 EDT
From: MICHAELMR2@aol.com
Subject: MR2 Re:mr2 mki help

In a message dated 98-08-14 22:31:35 EDT, you write:

<< Subject: Re: MR2 mk1 help!!!
 
 >Still won't start-cranks OK
 >Hesitated bad one day-then after sitting for a few minutes, would not start
 >again
 >Plugs wires, cap, rotor, and plugs are new.
 >Ideas? >>


another idea,   computer is down.
Happened to me with my mkii just last week  it was like it stalled and wouldnt
restart.

Mike Tomasello
93 turbo super red (no ecu)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:27:21 EDT
From: MICHAELMR2@aol.com
Subject: MR2 unsubscribe

unsubscribe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:46:42 EDT
From: DLevesque@aol.com
Subject: Re: MR2 <gen> RX-7 power and how does it compare with a m

1983 - 1985 - 70ci 4bbl- 101 hp
1984 - 1985 - 80ci EFI - 135 hp
1986 - 1990 - 80ci EFI - 146 hp
1986 - 1990 - 80ci EFI turbo - 182 hp

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:31:59 -0400
From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon)
Subject: Re: MR2 re: cops and ABS

>If the cop yells at you to stop and you don't, then yes, you should get
>charged,

Perhaps the more legally-knowledgeable will know the technical term, but
I've heard it called 'resisting arrest without violence'.

Steve B.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:02:15 -0400
From: nu3y@CritPath.Org
Subject: Re: MR2 sports cars

In reponse to John's post about mine,
	Actually, I more or less agree with you.  I keep using the phrase "classic
definition" or "classic sportscar" but I also keep leaving out
"convertable" on purpose, as on the MR2 list, it would surely get flamed!
I DO look for flames sometimes, but I don't want them here.
	OF COURSE, if you are using classic definitions, a sportscar MUST be a
convertible!  As a matter of fact, it doesn't even have to have a top or
windows at all (except for a windscreen, maybe!).  There are people today
who truly believe that if a car has roll-up windows, it isn't a real sports
car.  That reminds me.  Next month my wife and I go to the Watkins Glen
Vintage Grand Prix Festival.  We'll see (and rally with and autocross with)
tons and tons of purist, true sports cars!  Can't wait.
	Alfa Romeo in the late 50's rewrote what a "sports car" was.  They got
more comfortable, came with good heaters, and were usuable all year round.
When you refer to car like the "MGB-GT" as being a true GT, but merely a
hard-top version of the convertable, remember that the GT designation was
applied by the manufacturer, and it and cars like it were NOT the classic
"GT".  The MGB and cars like it with metal tops were too "average" to
become true GT's.  They were the traditional sportscars becoming "watered
down", or at least they were aimed more at the masses of people who wanted
a sports car but didnt' want to put up with the penalties.  Sports cars
were always light, simple affairs.  GT's (remember we're talking classic
definitions here) were heavier, faster, more expensive, more comfortable,
and more exotic.  You are right that Ferrari created the GT, or at least
was up there in the front.  Actually, it was Peninfarina, Bertone, Ghia,
and several other Italian designers and design studios that "created" the
GT.  These designers designed and in many cases BUILT the coachwork for
Ferrari, Maserati, Iso, Lamborghini, Alfa, etc.  
	Speaking about GT's not being convertables, Ferrari would probably take
issue with that.  Remember the 330?  It was a beautiful 12 cylinder car
available as a convertable (330GTS) for only about $13,500 or so in the mid
60's.  The same car with a steel top was the 330GTC.  The "S" stood for
"spider", which in Italian vernacular, meant convertable.  The "C" stood
for "coupe", which is the French for, well, coupe!  Were they both GT's?
Were they both sports cars?  Depends on how you want to use the
definitions.  Take another anathema.  Mercedes Benz 190SL, 350SL, 450SL,
500SL, 560SL.  Convertable, 2-seat cars all the way.  Sports cars?  Most of
the automotive press who have driven and reviewed them over the years said
that these cars were just too comfortable and too luxurious to ever be
considered sports cars.
	The point of my original posts on this subject was that although there
were once widely accepted classical definitions of sports cars and GT's,
the lines have become less well defined, and there is a lot of gray area.
In that light, I said the MR2 MKI was more of a sports car (or a "better"
sports car) than the MR2 MKII, and the MKII was more of a GT (or a "better"
GT) than the MKI.

- -----
Joe Pearlstein
'91 Crimson Red MKII NA (every option except auto. trans.), Past owner of
'86 Super Red MKI
***** 1st Place, 1998 Reading Poker Rally  :) *****
Member Toyota 100,000 Mile Club
IMOC # 2NA000004
Philadelphia, PA 
mailto:nu3y@critpath.org		
ICQ# 3480202

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:07:37 -0500
From: "MR2 List Owner" <owner-mr2@slapshot.hockey.net>
Subject: Re: MR2 bolt pattern and number - can we adjust?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BDC81B.62975900
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Hello-

Please do NOT use HTML when posting to the MR2 list.  If you do, realize =
that you are not reaching everybody on the list as a number of =
subscribers can't read it.  That's a terrific way to limit responses to =
your inquiries.  If you really want to make full use of this resource, =
make sure your question reaches everybody- SEND TEXT.

Thank You,
Andrew P. Tasi
MR2 list owner
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Cole Bennett <roscenco@mis.net>
    To: mr2 <mr2-interest@mr2.com>
    Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 10:32 PM
    Subject: MR2 bolt pattern and number - can we adjust?
   =20
   =20
    I saw somebody selling what I thought was a 4 bolt wheel for on MR2 =
classifieds recently.  He said he had them on his MR2.  Is he using some =
converter to go from 5 to 4 or are some wheels made with both?
    =20
    Thanks,
    Cole

- ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BDC81B.62975900
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#f4f4f4>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hello-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><STRONG><FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff0000>Please =
do NOT use=20
HTML when posting to the MR2 list</FONT></STRONG>.&nbsp; If you do, =
realize that=20
you are not reaching everybody on the list as a number of subscribers =
can't read=20
it.&nbsp; That's a terrific way to limit responses to your =
inquiries.&nbsp; If=20
you really want to make full use of this resource, make sure your =
question=20
reaches everybody- SEND TEXT.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thank You,<BR>Andrew P. Tasi<BR>MR2 =
list=20
owner</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Cole Bennett &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:roscenco@mis.net">roscenco@mis.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B>mr2=20
    &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:mr2-interest@mr2.com">mr2-interest@mr2.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>D=
ate:=20
    </B>Thursday, August 13, 1998 10:32 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>MR2 bolt =
pattern=20
    and number - can we adjust?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I saw somebody selling what I =
thought was a=20
    4 bolt wheel for on MR2 classifieds recently.&nbsp; He said he had =
them on=20
    his MR2.&nbsp; Is he using some converter to go from 5 to 4 or are =
some=20
    wheels made with both?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Cole</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01BDC81B.62975900--

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Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 08:23:08 -0500
From: "Andrew P. Tasi" <zion@hockey.net>
Subject: Re: MR2 RE: -Identity Crisis, Mr2t

- -----Original Message-----
From: Joe Shutte <rns@one.net>
Subject: MR2 RE: -Identity Crisis, Mr2t


[Snip!]
>I was wondering exactly what the definition of a Grand Turismo is?

[Snip!]
>Would the Mk1 also be more like a GT or a sports car?

IMHO, Sports car.  Definately not a GT.


Ask this question on different days to different people and you will most
certainly get different answers, so what the heck-- here's my $0.02:

A true sports car is focused in it's mission to provide fun for the driver
and high levels of performance.  To achieve this, the sports car will make
compromises (compared to regular passenger vehicles) in some or all of the
following areas:
- -luggage capacity
- -passenger capacity
- -noise levels
- -ride height
- -comfort

For making these compromises you get:
- -crisp handling and braking
- -an intimate feel of the road
- -better acceleration (via lighter weight) than a similarly powered
conventional passenger vehicle
- -FUN and smiles

Current cars that exemplify this are (from cheapest to most expensive
(fctme-like that Terry?)) the Mazda Miata, Lotus Elise, and Ferrari F50.

A real GT gives you the benefits, but is very comfortable and luxurious, and
will make less of the above compromises .  Compared to a true sports car,
you *may* give up some road feel and handling, will have a heavier car, and
you'll pay more to achieve the same performance levels.  True GTs are
excellent high speed machines for traveling long distances.

Current cars in this class include (fctme) the Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4,
Jaguar XKR, and Ferrari 456.

My 2 bits,
Andrew P. Tasi
89 SC MR2
88 NA MR2

All opinions expressed are mine and worth exactly what you paid for them.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 07:47:07
From: Keith Jarett <keith@nsx.org>
Subject: MR2 Re:Valentine discounts and 87 wires

>Subject: MR2 Gen where did you purchase your Valentineone?
>
>I have decided to upgrade my radar detector, and the consensus of the
>list seems to be that the Valentine one is the tops. (any other opinion
>is welcome)  I have found there web site and the retail price is $399.
>Anyone have any luck finding a better price?

The only source is Valentine, but they give you 10% off if you buy a 
unit previously returned on the 30-day trial.  It might have a scratch or 
two, but it is fully warranteed.  Also, I'd likely skip the laser if I 
were buying one now, since it's not likely to save a ticket.


>>    3.  Where the original spark plug wires on 87's black or red?

Black on my early 87 NA.


Keith Jarett
keith@nsx.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:17:31 -0400
From: Michelle Clark <mclark@writeme.com>
Subject: MR2 re: <MKII> red paint fading

Joe Pearlstein wrote:

> I have seen Crimson Red MR2's that look
> HORRIBLE!  The Super Red (or what we here in the States call "Super Red II"
> as opposed to the original Super Red used on the MKI's are not subject to
> this same kind of problem.
>
    I disagree.   My 93T (super red) was repainted (at Toyota's expense)
due to fading.  (Can't quite figure out how the original owner talked
them into that!)  When they repainted it, they failed to do the front
air dam, the door handles and the rear bumper.  Needless to say, my car
is starting to have a two-tone effect.  I know of others, too.  My
understanding is that all red paint is prone to fading, and the fact
that Toyota did not clear-coat any of the non-metallic colored cars
doesn't help.

    Michelle
    93T <victim of fading>
    http://www.geocities.com/~lady_mr2

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:36:47 EDT
From: Daucott@aol.com
Subject: MR2 Winter Storage

It's not too soon to ask!  Is there anyone in the Michigan (Detriot
Metropolitan Area) that has room to store my MR2 for the winter?  Looking for
garage space.  Thanks.

Dave A.
daucott@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 10:53:10 EDT
From: MR2914me@aol.com
Subject: Re:  MR2 re: <MKII> red paint fading/glad I'm blue!

In a message dated 8/15/98 2:14:30 PM, mclark@writeme.com wrote:

<<My understanding is that all red paint is prone to fading, and the fact
that Toyota did not clear-coat any of the non-metallic colored cars
doesn't help.>>

Whew! I'm glad I got metallic blue!!
Rob '91 na w/cage (at52kmilesstilllooksnew)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:06:14 -0400
From: Phil Cutajar <solo2_mr2@ibm.net>
Subject: MR2 HKS EVC

Greetings,
I've got an opportunity to buy a HKS EVC IV second hand. Can anyone tell
me what the difference is between the various versions of this device?
How does this differ from the EVC III or II or whatever?

Thanks.

- --
Phil Cutajar
mailto:solo2_mr2@geocities.com
internet pager; http://wwp.mirabilis.com/6032611
my home page; http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6213/index.htm

'93 MR2-Turbo, Super White, 75k miles
K&N FIPK/MR.2-PP MBC/Marc Summers Wires&CAP/'97 Euro spec lenses
H&R springs/Tokico Illuminas/Energy Bushings

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 12:12:12 -0400
From: "Tommy Guttmann" <tools@tooltech.qc.ca>
Subject: MR2 <GEN> Gentlemen Clubs, Vinyl Roofs and such...(long)

Speaking of Terry's mention of Gentlemen Clubs, wouldn't you know it,
but last nite on the way home from the office I noticed that red Mk1 with
the Vinyl Roof and Opera Lights parked in front of a Strip Joint (those from
Montreal will know the place on Cote de Liesse near the Airport)...

You guys who accused me for being anti-social regarding my unwillingness
to wave back at what I considered "unworthy" 2s (you know who you are!)
last year, would be proud. I actually pulled over, went inside, wanting to
know who would be driving this abomination.

Well, wouldn't you know...it was a dancer and not a patron. When she finished
her table dance at the next table, I introduced myself, mentioned MR2s,
blah, blah...
Turns out "Marie" (wouldn't tell me her last name) is 21, 1/2 Native Indian,
1/2 French Canadian and got the 2, decorated "as is" from a used car dealer
up in the Abitibi Region (about 350 miles north of Montreal in the wilderness)
about 2 months ago.

She took a coffee break...I showed her my 2 outside (coincidentally I happened
to be driving it yesterday...) fetched my Lap Top, logged on showed her all
the stuff at mr2.com,etc...spent about an hour...

Anyway, she was quite impressed and is now going to buy herself a computer
and is planning on joining the "list" (Hmm...wonder what name she'll use...).

I also explained to her that her car looks blasphemous and suggested...no pleaded...
that she lose the roof, opera lights and wire hubcaps. The rest of the car (86 with
AC) actually looked remarkably well preserved. Don't think it had ever been wintered
(certainly not suitable in the area she bought it from!), but looked like it could
use a re-paint...

Gave her the phone number of a Bodyshop that I deal with here in town and gave
her my card in case she needed any help...

Tommy Guttmann
Montreal, Canada
2 x MR2 SC

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:43:33 -0700
From: "Mike Dodd" <bbandit@gte.net>
Subject: MR2 What to buy for MKII - Answer

Save youself some money and get two instead of one thing!  What am I
talking about?  Well last Saturday at the Mira Mesa drags I was talking with
a guy
that has a black MR2 Turbo and a guy with a White Turbo, it seems all the
MR2 owners are pulled together by some strange force at gatherings...

Anyway, one of the guys had clear corners so I said, "They look good, but
not for $140 bucks!"  He laughed, he said he paid $30.  They were Integra
clear corners lights, from the new model integras, they look identical to
the Toyota ones, except they flare out the side just a tad but flush mount
to the body perfectly, they actually looked better than the Toyota ones.

He said you need to trim them to fit.  If you've got a dremel I would
suggest
them, I'm ordering some for mine.

Also, you can get a K&N and an Toyota adapter for $55 from Pann, or make
your own like I did for $35 bucks for a big K&N cone plus a plug for the
stock tube.

Thats a total of $90 for the pretty much the same stuff but a little bit of
effort on your part.  Personally I enjoy modding my car, just bolting in a
few screws isn't any fun or gratification.  I'll try and put some pictures
and a blueprint of just how and where to trim the lights on my web page, I
also wouldn't mind selling precut ones if there is an interest.

------------------------------

End of mr2-digest V2 #1296