mr2-digest Wednesday, September 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 1510 Re: MR2 w/ Rotary Re: MR2 TRD Clutch...IMOC discount? MR2 MKII: Non-Toyota manual?... Re: MR2 TRD Clutch...IMOC discount? Re: MR2 w/ Rotary MR2 MkII G-Force ECU upgrade advantages Re: MR2 TRD Clutch...IMOC discount? RE: MR2 vs WRX (RWD vs 4WD) RE: MR2 G Force upgrade Re: MR2 How Mister Two Saved my ass today.....and a question Re: MR2 w/ Rotary Re: MR2 MK1 - Questions about which K&N to use... RE: sub 4.0 second 0-60mph times (was: MR2 vs WRX (RWD vs 4WD) Re: MR2 w/ Rotary ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:14:11 -0400 From: John Keller Subject: Re: MR2 w/ Rotary Jeremy Rotorys have been supercharged (with another "rotory" SC :-), turboed etc. There are diesel rotorys also. NATO uses rotory power generators at the NORTH AND SOUTH POLES, due to their reliability! A carburated rotory can be STARTED on GAS and RUN on KEROSENE or anything with an octane of 65 . John Keller 88SC Jeremy Wells wrote: > I'm curious if the wankel engine would be more efficient for burning > alternative fuels such as ethanol/methanol, hydrogen or methane... > > -Jeremy > > ----------------------------------------------------- > "You have come for knowledge. There will be pleasure. > Because knowledge is sexy. There will also be pain. > Because knowledge is torture." - Jeff Noon, "Vurt" > http://users.owt.com/conflux > ----------------------------------------------------- > > On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Phil Cutajar wrote: > > > > From: toyotamr2@juno.com (Joe Sweet) > > > Subject: Re: MR2 w/ Rotory > > > > > > Rotoary motors run HOT as HELL.. There cooling systems are very large and > > > can handle alot of flow. Also rotary motors, wankels, get bad gas > > > mileage, i heard someone say they get better gas mileage, well that is > > > totally backwards, rotary motors burn more because fuel is injected in 2 > > > places for every one revolution.. If you like getting 15-19mpg go for it, > > > but i dont and will stay away from rotary power unless its restored rx7 > > > that is rarely driven.. > > > > > > Joe > > > Black 85 Mr2 NA 111,000 > > > > > The rotary engines biggest problems were lack of R&D. Compared to the > > piston engine, the rotor is a much better and much more efficient > > design. It's smaller, lighter, and has far less moving and fricition > > generating parts. Unfortunately, besides Mazda, there weren't too many > > companies willing to invest in the technology to refine it like they did > > with the piston engine. However, many of the problems that plagued the > > rotary could have, and would have been resolved if there was enough time > > and money invested in them. But, going against the grain can sometimes > > lead to superior technologies being squashed, and inferior technologies > > often win out simply because of popularity or marketing... like the VHS > > vs. Beta, or OS/2 and MAC vs. Windows. > > > > Anyway, the basic problems with the rotary were it's combustion chamber > > design. The long narrow shape of the chamber hampered the burn process > > somewhat, causing a lot of unburned fuel to be expelled into the > > exhaust. This, of course, creates a high volume of hydrocarbons, which > > gets the environmentalists very unhappy. Mazda was able to deal with > > this adequately by using catalysts in the exhaust. But that didn't > > really resolve the basic problem, it was just a way to work around it. > > However, Mazda has recently been doing some more research on the rotary > > and they're working on some new combustion chamber designs, which would > > vastly improve the burn process and drastically reduce the HC problem. > > Rumor is they will have the new engine ready within a couple of years > > and may start producing them in their mainstream cars again. > > > > I've always been fascinated by these engines, and would love to see them > > rejuvenated. I wouldn't be too surprized if they revolutionized the > > automotive industry. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to > > happen. > > -- > > Phil Cutajar > > mailto:solo2_mr2@geocities.com > > internet pager; http://wwp.mirabilis.com/6032611 > > my home page; http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6213/index.htm > > > > '93 MR2-Turbo, Super White, 75k miles > > K&N FIPK/MR.2-PP MBC/Marc Summers Wires&CAP/'97 Euro spec lenses > > H&R springs/Tokico Illuminas/Energy Bushings/16" SSR Integral-A2's > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:41:55 -0700 From: Mike Chou Subject: Re: MR2 TRD Clutch...IMOC discount? > 4) I just had mine fail after 1 year of (non-abusive) use. I'm the only > person I know of who's had this happen, but I thought I'd mention it. > > If you have any other questions about it, feel free to drop me a line. > > Dirk Actually I believe Matt Gawlowski was having probs with his clutch in his NA. I was waiting for him to respond, but maybe he isn't reading the list as much now. Anyways last I talked to him he needed to get the clutch replaced and it wasn't in for more than ~1year.. Mike C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:42:08 -0400 From: Whit Gurley Subject: MR2 MKII: Non-Toyota manual?... I've been searching for one, and it doesn't look like it exists. Haynes only makes a manual for the early MKI's. How about it - does anyone know of a repair manual for a '91 MKI NA that includes electrical, suspension, body, frame, etc.? _______________________ w h i t g u r l e y , now with extra flavor! whit@just-think.com How beautiful it is to do nothing, and then rest afterward. Spanish proverb (+ typical disclaimer) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:54:57 -0600 From: goodmatt@juno.com (Matt S Ledbetter) Subject: Re: MR2 TRD Clutch...IMOC discount? On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:41:55 -0700 Mike Chou writes: > > >> 4) I just had mine fail after 1 year of (non-abusive) use. I'm the >only >> person I know of who's had this happen, but I thought I'd mention >it. >> >> If you have any other questions about it, feel free to drop me a >line. >> >> Dirk > >Actually I believe Matt Gawlowski was having probs with his clutch in >his NA. I >was waiting for him to respond, but maybe he isn't reading the list as >much now. >Anyways last I talked to him he needed to get the clutch replaced and >it wasn't in >for more than ~1year.. > >Mike C > > I have the TRD street clutch on my '88. I used it for about 15k miles before I had my car twincharged..... We sent it down to ClutchMasters and they worked a couple hundred bucks worth of magic on it. I have about 15k on it since twincharging and have had no problems with it...... It might be worth the time and trouble to send it to ClutchMasters.... - -Matt '88 Twincharged _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:00:56 -0400 From: John Keller Subject: Re: MR2 w/ Rotary Peripherally ported rotorys are NOT new, the true RACE rotorys are peripheral ported. The "noise" is from the apex seal "clipping" the exhaust port. John Keller 88SC jkramer@sctcorp.com wrote: > > However, Mazda has recently been doing some more research on > the rotary > > and they're working on some new combustion chamber designs, > which would > > vastly improve the burn process and drastically reduce the HC > problem. > > Rumor is they will have the new engine ready within a couple of > years > > and may start producing them in their mainstream cars again. > > Yeah, I've heard that there's a possibility of a 4th generation > RX-7 powered by a non-turbo 2 rotor engine making somewhere > around 225 hp as early as next year. The major engineering > change I've read about (in Sports Compact Car) has been the > change in the exhaust port location. They've moved the exhaust > ports from the outside of the rotor housing to the side of the > housing, similar to the intake ports. This has improved > combustion which has reduced emissions. It has also reduced the > noise factor. The drawback is that it reduces the engine's > "turbo-ability". The exhaust pulses from the current design are > incredibly strong (that's why they are so loud) which means they > spin up a turbo quickly. The exhaust pulses eminating from the > side mounted ports won't have the same strength. > > I'd love to see this new RX-7 become a reality, but I question > Mazda's ability to pull this off considering their current > financial picture and economic outlook. > > Take care, > Jack > '91 MR2 NA > '86 RX-7 Sport ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:20:53 -0700 From: "TurboMR2" Subject: MR2 MkII G-Force ECU upgrade advantages What is it that the G-Force ECU will do for my '92 turbo. Also does it UPGRADE the toyota ECU or does it REPLACE the toyota ECU. Mark Hall '92 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:05:55 -0700 From: Dirk Sieber Subject: Re: MR2 TRD Clutch...IMOC discount? At 12:54 PM 9/16/98 -0600, Matt S Ledbetter wrote: >On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:41:55 -0700 Mike Chou writes: >>Actually I believe Matt Gawlowski was having probs with his clutch in >>his NA. I >>was waiting for him to respond, but maybe he isn't reading the list as >>much now. >>Anyways last I talked to him he needed to get the clutch replaced and >>it wasn't in >>for more than ~1year.. >> >>Mike C >> >I have the TRD street clutch on my '88. I used it for about 15k miles >before I had my car twincharged..... We sent it down to ClutchMasters and >they worked a couple hundred bucks worth of magic on it. I have about 15k >on it since twincharging and have had no problems with it...... It might >be worth the time and trouble to send it to ClutchMasters.... > >-Matt >'88 Twincharged Matt, Thanks for the suggestion. However, at this point, TRD/Toyota has agreed to warranty it, and they're replacing it with a stock clutch (after a bit of arguement. ;-). I'm getting married in Nov, so at this point, I just don't have the time/money to investigate other options. At some point in the future, I hope to be able to once again look into whatever aftermarket options are available, and I'll definitley check out ClutchMasters then. As for Matt... I think he mentioned to me that he had a bit of chattering with his, but I didn't know that he needed to have it replaced. If he did, that's rather interesting, as it means I'm not alone with this problem. Dirk Dirk Sieber - dsieber@express.ca '93T @ 15PSI = WOW! :-) IMOC #2TT000016 Visit the MR2 shops page, at http://www.enteract.com/~hillman/mr2/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:31:09 -0700 From: "Gabriel C. Lam" Subject: RE: MR2 vs WRX (RWD vs 4WD) > >Most 4WD sportscars are trying to make up for some kind of deficit. The > >Talon/Eagle/3000 GT series from Mitsubishi were originally FWD and needed > >the 4WD for acceleration. > > > Um.. AWD talon/eclipses are slower than FWD models. > > ~G > Hehe, that's pretty funny. Wait, you are kidding of course, aren't you? http://www.heckconsulting.com/dsm/drag.html gabe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:37:32 -0700 From: D/VE Subject: RE: MR2 G Force upgrade At 10:25 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >What's the G-force upgrade? Is it a chip, or an engine mod or what? Does >it affect the computer, and what do I need to have in mind when installing >it? The upgrade is a ROM? board added to your Toyota ecu that will change fuel/timing curves according to your mods. The best part is that it will eliminate the over-rich situation that occurs at wot. I believe they unlock the 16psi maps that toyota already preprogrammed, but didn't allow us to use. I have yet to hear something bad about the gforce ecu... everyone has loved it! They say you will definitely feel the difference, and it will pull all the way to 8000rpms if you want that ability. You will still retain stock AFM, but there is one guy running 320 rwhp with the stock AFM. I will be using the VPC along with the Gforce.. Subject: Re: MR2 How Mister Two Saved my ass today.....and a question It's possible he heard the RPMs go up. Of course, he might just have bad priorities when he's breaking hard. >Uh, what were you doing watching rpms as you were braking that hard!? > >And my 87 Supra w/ ABS (3 channel) would lock up on gravel so I guess >that's normal. > >Jeff G > >>Ok, >> >>Today, on my way to school, I took my usual route....except, today, >>traffic was gummy at best. I was crusing at 50-60 and was about to go >on >>to the lane for the onramp. Blocked by a bigass SUV in front of me, I >>blindly switched to the right lane...suddenly I noticed a jam of cars >>about 20 feet in front of me!:) Slammin on the breaks, the ABS put me >to >>a halt in about 19 feet(I stop just as oversteer sets in and >>pulls my ass end up....)....tires smoking, and causing havoc with my >>brother who was the passanger, we barely escaped rear ending a >>Volvo...whew. I guess I was in too much of a rush this morning, and >need >>to slow down a bit....This puppy stops like no other....if I was in my >>moms van, I would have been in an accident....whew >> >>Now, for a Q; >>1) During that quick second of hard breaking with the ABS, my RPMs >rose >>even though I didnt hit the gas pedal. One of my feet were on the >clutch >>pedal, and the other on the brakes....explanation? >>2) I hit a gravel patch while braking and heard the tires skidding a >>bit...with ABS, would this be normal? >> >>Man, this car deserves a gift! New clutch and tires!:) >> >> >> Eric "Asian Invasion" Nghiem >> The NJ Paintball League: For some info, E-mail me! >>shooting too many paintball guns and blowing off too much money is my >hobby >> "My Karma ate your Dogma!" >> Why dontcha bug me? ICQ 11287337 or AOL IM "PhatMR2" >> PoG#?? MoG#?? WGPoG#?? PPIG#?? >> >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:43:13 -0400 From: jkramer@sctcorp.com Subject: Re: MR2 w/ Rotary << Peripherally ported rotorys are NOT new, the true RACE rotorys are peripheral ported. >> Yeah - knew that. However, if I remember correctly, current peripheral ported engines are indeed "unstreetable", they are great at super high RPM's, but terrible for "normal" driving. Don't know what Mazda has done to change that in the upcoming engine. The article I read didn't get into that level of detail. Anyone??? Probably should be asking this on the RX-7 list :-) Take care, Jack '91 MR2 NA '86 RX-7 Sport ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:49:09 -0400 From: Ron Paukovits Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 - Questions about which K&N to use... Matthew Bishop wrote: > Hey, > I have a question for all of you MK1 owners out > there. I have an '87 MK1 with the intake routed > around the back trunk, but I also have the older > "Blue Hat" engine (borderline model years). > I want to do the K&N filter upgrade to my car > with the relocation of the filter in the engine > bay. I have the concept down as to what needs > to be done, but there seems to be one piece of > info missing... which model of Filter do I use? > > They have the drop in for the stock filter box, but > that is not what I want. I really want to put > a "FIPK" type in, but there is no match for > my year. My question is would the one for > the 85-87 Corolla GT-S work for my 2 since > they have basically the same engine? > > I fond this description for it on MODACAR: > > "K&N" FILTERCHARGER PERFORMANCE KIT PART NO. > 85-87 COROLLA GT-S L4 1.6 HPD-57-9000 > PRICE > $189.00 Save your money, dude. Just relocate the AFM and use a generic cone filter. That is the best hp increase and the cheapest way to do it. Those kits are a rip off anyway.....200 bucks for a $20 filter and a $3 mounting plate/tube? Leave that stuff for the riceboys and do it the easy way. See: http://members.aol.com/daucott/mr2_86/Powermax.html for details. Ron MKIx3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:56:11 -0400 From: "Ko, James" Subject: RE: sub 4.0 second 0-60mph times (was: MR2 vs WRX (RWD vs 4WD) Um, Brad Bedell's web page claims 3.3 seconds as his best 0-60 time in his 410hp MR2 (now Marcus Hopkins' ). And I'm pretty sure this was a streetable car. You can look up this info for yourself at: http://www.flash.net/~bbedell/modifications.htm or http://server2.powernet.net/%7Etanabe/performance.htm James Ko '91 NA > -----Original Message----- > From: Gordon Tyrrell [SMTP:gtyrrell@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 5:05 AM > To: mcboom@ozemail.com.au; nu3y@CritPath.Org > Cc: mr2-digest@mr2.com > Subject: Re: MR2 vs WRX (RWD vs 4WD) > > The latest WRX model, the 22B, was recently tested alongside the new > Porsche 911 in a UK magazine and the 0-60mph for the standard 22B was, > Quote, less that 4 secs so lets not go there. No MR2, modified to the > hilt or otherwise is going to keep up with this model on any road, in > any conditions. Don't start about some 1000bhp dragster mr2 either. > we're talking real street machines. > Have a nice day > > > Gordon > Dublin, Ireland > Red 1995 MR2 GT-S Turbo (japanese import) > ICQ: 10194614 SoreHead > Web: http://fly.to/mr2.ie > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:03:50 -0400 From: John Keller Subject: Re: MR2 w/ Rotary Jack, Peripherally ported rotorys have NO bottom end, correct. I worked on them for Mazda for 8 years or so. Off the top of my head, if Mazda had a VARIABLE exhaust port SIZE, that would do it, all by itself. :-) ON EMISSIONS: The total AREA of the rotor FACE (combustion chamber) is large by necessity, which makes for LOTS of NOX (high tempatures produce NOX). However, Mazda has "controlled" emissions on ROTORYS, since 1973 so well, I read; .0 CO and BELOW 50 PPM HC on ALL rotorys I worked on in 1973 forward (with "properly" functioning system) . Mazda's ROTORY was THE lowest polluting engine, until the Honda CVCC design came along. John Keller 88SC jkramer@sctcorp.com wrote: > << Peripherally ported rotorys are NOT new, the true RACE rotorys > are > peripheral ported. >> > > Yeah - knew that. However, if I remember correctly, current > peripheral ported engines are indeed "unstreetable", they are > great at super high RPM's, but terrible for "normal" driving. > > Don't know what Mazda has done to change that in the upcoming > engine. The article I read didn't get into that level of detail. > Anyone??? Probably should be asking this on the RX-7 list :-) > > Take care, > Jack > '91 MR2 NA > '86 RX-7 Sport ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #1510