mr2-digest Monday, November 16 1998 Volume 02 : Number 1930 MR2 Limits of wheel upgrades on MKI HELP Re: MR2 Re: 1993 Kelly BB Dealer Sports Car prices MR2 MKII Cheapest SPAL Fans FW: MR2 fiero's Re: MR2 Brake Advice Re: MR2 Mk I NA Power Upgrades Re: MR2 94 Changes Re: MR2 fiero's Houston MR2 Owners - Dyno Day Re: MR2 94 Changes Re: MR2 94 Changes Re: MR2 94 Changes Re: MR2 94 Changes Re: MR2 94 Changes RE: MR2 94 Changes (What does YOUR MR2 weight?) Re: FW: MR2 fiero's Re: MR2 94 Changes Re: FW: MR2 fiero's Re: FW: MR2 fiero's ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:37:19 -0800 From: Mark Sink Subject: MR2 Limits of wheel upgrades on MKI HELP MKI Guys, I received a letter from some gentlemen looking for specifics on how to go about extreme wheel upgrades on an MKI. Wide wheels, 5 lug conversion, etc... Please help them out if you have any knowledge on this. Please be sure and respond to dogman@macomb.com who is being CC'd on this. - ------------------------ My son found and purchased (for his first car) an '89 MR2. The car is nice. No Rust. NA with no mods, very original. He wants to upgrade the original 5.5" wheels and 185/60/14 tire combo. Here's our questions: 1. His hubs are the std. 4-bolt. Do we consider "upgrading" to 5-bolt in order to make more wheel options work, including 16"? 2. if we stick with the 4-bolt and go to 15" wheels our current thoughts are 195's or 205's as maximum on the front with a 6 1/2" or 7" wheel. A wheel he likes is a Bourbet 7" with 40mm +offset. 3. at the rear we are looking at 215's or possibly 225's if we can get them under the car. again, the same Bourbet/specs as at the front. Personally, I would like to have a 7 1/2" wheel for the 225. Eyeballing the rear wheel area, an 8" looks impossible. 4. we can find no info on how close the strut can be "crowded" compared to stock. Likewise the fender lip. We want to do the most tire we can without alterations to the body or suspension (with exception of hub, if we need to do it). Your calculators have been extremely helpful in our effort to find the right ballpark. What have you actually tried on your '87 or heard from others? Can you suggest the best MR2 pages to add to our insight on wheel/tire options? Thanks Mark. J. R. and Jonathan Miller - -- Mark Sink - ----------- http://toy4two.home.mindspring.com/ Modified '87 MR2 & Stroked 2.2L '93 MR2 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:47:57 -0600 From: "Jason Dinkins" Subject: Re: MR2 Re: 1993 Kelly BB Dealer Sports Car prices Don't get the rx7. Email me if you want my experience. 3000 - too heavy rx7 - reliability supra - too fat 300z - doesn't "squat" well. slow 1/4s even with high horsepower corvette - can't stand the owners 968 - mods are $$$ mr2 - just right............ Flame retardent equipped Take care, Jason 91T - ---------- > From: Duane Brown > To: mr2-digest@mr2.com > Subject: MR2 Re: 1993 Kelly BB Dealer Sports Car prices > Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 9:22 AM > > > I have a nice MK1 that I would like to keep for the twisties > close to home, but want something to take on longer high speed trips. > > Here are a few 93 modles from the kelly Blue Book Site (kbb.com)btw: > I chose 93 cause all are under 20k. They are all based on 75k miles. > A 20k car with 75,000 miles might become a money pit in 3 or 4 years > though...?? > Anyone have any thoughts on the followimg car models...? > Any previous experience good or bad...? > Im in the market for something i can drive 3000 miles in comfort > and still drop an Acura with far too many stickers... > > > 3000GT Vr-4 - $19,000 > Mazda Rx7 - $17,700 > Supra Turbo - $19,500 > Mr2 Turbo - $12,500 > 300ZX Twin Turbo - $18,700 > Corvette (not Z1) - $19,000 > Porsche 968 - $19,300 > > Thanks for any input, > Duane > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:54:31 -0600 From: "Jason Dinkins" Subject: MR2 MKII Cheapest SPAL Fans Where can I get the cheapest 10inch Spals again? Sorry for the repetitiveness if this is an old subject. Take care, Jason 91T ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:39:10 -0500 From: "Kennedy, Paul M, NPG" Subject: FW: MR2 fiero's Motor Trend, Feb. '85, did a MR2/Fiero V6 comparison. Results: 0-60 1/4 Mi Skidpad Mr2 8.73 16.63@81.1 .84 Fiero 8.54 16.22@83.8 .80 Paul Kennedy 91T > ---------- > From: sullivanc@InfoAve.Net[SMTP:sullivanc@InfoAve.Net] > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 1998 10:42 PM > To: mr2-interest@mr2.com > Subject: MR2 fiero's > > Hi everybody. I hate to waste the bandwidth here, but I have to spout off. > > Why in this world are Fiero owners sooo proud of fieros. They keep saying > that a fiero will kick an MR2's butt all over the road, but the fastest > 0-60 > time I can find on a v-6 fiero is 9.6 seconds with a 16.3 second 1/4 mile. > It is my understanding that a N/A Mk1 Mr2 has 0-60 of 7.5-8.0 and a 1/4 > mile > of about 16.0 seconds. So the question is WHY??? Then a fiero owner will > boast about handling. with a 59 mph slalom and .81 skidpad, I can't see > how > it handles better than an 85 MR2. So I still ask...WHY!!! > Looks.....don't make me laugh. > > comfort maybe...hahaahah > > check out www.fiero.org if you want to laugh. > there is a good section on engine fires...the only way to see a fiero... > > > Chris > 91 Turbo. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:28:36 -0800 From: "Pat Roberts" Subject: Re: MR2 Brake Advice In erspects to brakes the calipers you have chosen aer not a bad choice, but another choice is the 300zx '90 and up. From memory the 300 has 1 9/16" pistons and the RX7 has 1 7/16 pistons. I use the 300 calipers on a few conversions using .81 x 12 3/16 coleman or wilwwod rotors. The coleman rotors are far superior. Also the 300 brakes NISSAN emblem could easily be removed. Any other question feel free to ask Pat Roberts - ---------- > From: sbowen@cujo2.icom.ca > To: mr2-digest@mr2.com > Subject: MR2 Brake Advice > Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 12:10 PM > > Hi, > > I am about to make some decisions on what brakes to use on a tube frame > S\C. I would like to upgrade from the stock brakes but I really do not > want to pay for aftermarket racing brakes. > > I spent some time at a local parts store today and found some nice > brakes. They are off of the second generation RX-7 86 to 90 GXL, Turbo > or Convertiable. They have front and rear vented rotors with a four > piston caliper up front and a two piston in the back. The calipers are > really trick in my opinion, they are finned to reduce heat build up and > made of a light weight alloy. The disks are considerablly larger than > the disks on the S\C. I can get the complete set up with rebuilt > calipers, disks and pads with taxes for under $1000 Canadian. If I use > these brakes I will either need to modify the S\C spindles or find some > spimdles off of a RX-7, neither of which is a big problem as I am going > with a customer A-Arm suspension. > > My question, considering this is a Ttoyota project, is there any Toyota > products that mounted similar brakes to the ones I described above. > When I get the car done I do not want to constantly explain why my > Toyota has brakes that say Mazada on them. I gues I could gride the > Mazada off but it would be a shame to mess up those pretty castings. > > Cheers > Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:32:22 -0800 From: "Pat Roberts" Subject: Re: MR2 Mk I NA Power Upgrades I'm in the same boat ass you are. I removed the TVIS butterflies and rods, this made a slight top end gain with a botttom end loss. I have not yet found a good efi afermarket manifold, but head port work is ally where it is at along with any of the Engine management systems out there. This made a huge difference with my car. Pat Roberts - ---------- > From: tkewley@ix.netcom.com > To: MR2 Mailing List > Subject: MR2 Mk I NA Power Upgrades > Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 1:03 PM > > There seems to be a real lack of aftermarket parts for the 4A-GE - odd, > considering that it has been used as a race motor, and was offered in > several high volume models. In any event, here's what I've found: > > TRD: header > HKS: exhaust, cams > > >From what I read, the exhaust makes a nice sound, but doesn't up the > power much, if at all. Doesn't ANYBODY make a low restriction intake > for this car? Freeing up the exhaust won't make much difference without > doing the same for intake. > > My questions here are 1) are there any other worthwhile power mods out > there for the NA Mk I that I'm unaware of, and 2) what are your > experiences with them (including the ones I noted above)? Thanks. > > -- > Todd Kewley > '89 Supra NA > '85 MR2 > > "People are stupid" - Paul Reiser > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:46:02 -0800 From: Steve N Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes > Just more data. Per the brochure, the weight that was added for the '94 > seems pretty minor. You mean the weight that was lost! ;) Compared to the 93 that is. for some reason I was under the impression that the 94 weighed more than the 93. Guess not. I wonder if indeed the 94 rotors are bigger than the 93s like Brian said. hmm... Steve N. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:08:52 -0800 From: "Ken Blake" Subject: Re: MR2 fiero's Next thing you know, racermp will rear his ugly head! Ken 91 Turbo - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Su To: mr2-interest@mr2.com Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 8:24 PM Subject: Re: MR2 fiero's >NOOOO!!!!! Not this again!!!! =D > >---Mike >(I'll ask the guy that owns the Fiero infront of my apt to race me next >time, =) > >sullivanc@InfoAve.Net wrote: >> >> Hi everybody. I hate to waste the bandwidth here, but I have to spout off. >> Why in this world are Fiero owners sooo proud of fieros. They keep saying >> that a fiero will kick an MR2's butt all over the road, but the fastest 0-60 >> time I can find on a v-6 fiero is 9.6 seconds with a 16.3 second 1/4 mile. >> It is my understanding that a N/A Mk1 Mr2 has 0-60 of 7.5-8.0 and a 1/4 mile >> of about 16.0 seconds. So the question is WHY??? Then a fiero owner will >> boast about handling. with a 59 mph slalom and .81 skidpad, I can't see how >> it handles better than an 85 MR2. So I still ask...WHY!!! >> Looks.....don't make me laugh. >> >> comfort maybe...hahaahah >> >> check out www.fiero.org if you want to laugh. >> there is a good section on engine fires...the only way to see a fiero... >> >> Chris >> 91 Turbo. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:08:03 -0600 From: Glen Glassford Subject: Houston MR2 Owners - Dyno Day Houston MR2 owners.......we are trying to organize a Dyno Day at Motorsports Technologies and want to know your interest. Vince Hummer checked out Motorsport Technologies last week-end. They have an excellent shop. Their main focus is on big v8's, Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaros, Birds etc. However they do have a couple of RX7's that they work on and a couple of Supras. They are willing to do a Dyno Day. They have hosted several 4 cylinder days and have a couple on the calendar. We would need to give 4-6 weks notice. The cost is $35 for 2 runs with a min of 10 cars. The Dyno is in the first stall and easy to see. They will allow us in the shop to take pictures etc. If you would like to check out Motorsport the address is 12500 Oxford Park, Ph #281-870-8787 talk to either Kelly or Ryan. Location is west side of town west of Beltway 8, north of Richmond and south of Westheimer. They are real close to the CompUSA on Westheimer, just west of Andro Airport. They are scheduled through the first part of December and with the holidays comming up January might be a good time to try this. Let us know if your interested. Thanks, Glen Glassford 91 MKII T 86 MKI ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:17:16 -0500 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes > You mean the weight that was lost! ;) Compared to the 93 that is. What? 93 Brochure - T bar turbo 2822lbs. 95 press kit - T bar turbo 2888lbs. 93 NA hard top - 2590lbs 95 NA hard top - 2657lbs Come on college boy, do the math ;P David Hawkins ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:27:52 -0800 From: Steve N Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes > Come on college boy, do the math ;P I did. I was comparing the 94 data vs the 93 data that Randy provided. I didn't say anything about the 95. Your 93 data is contradictory with what Randy gave. Randy sed: > Per the '93 Brochure: > Weights: 2707 NA 2703 NA/ttops 2912 T/hardtop 2908 T/ttops > Per the '94 brochure: > Weights: 2657 NA 2690 NA/ttops 2888 T/ttops Dave sed: > 93 Brochure - T bar turbo 2822lbs. > 95 press kit - T bar turbo 2888lbs. > 93 NA hard top - 2590lbs > 95 NA hard top - 2657lbs Randys data sez that the car lost weight from 93 to 94. Your data sez that the 95 is heavier than the 93. Steve N. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:40:24 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes Steve N wrote: > > > Come on college boy, do the math ;P > > I did. I was comparing the 94 data vs the 93 data that Randy provided. > I didn't say anything about the 95. Your 93 data is contradictory with > what Randy gave. Good thing I skipped all that schooling. 8) I remember when I first got the 93 and 94 brochures, that I wondered if a mistake was made. But they do show (if they can be believed) that the 94 is lighter. Go figure... I really wanted to point out I am only quoting marketing brochures and that I think they need to be looked at with some suspicion. So, it looks like the ultimate car would be the lighter 94...before it became the obese 95 car. 8-) Randy Chase '91 MR2 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:36:53 -0500 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes > > Per the '93 Brochure: > > Weights: 2707 NA 2703 NA/ttops 2912 T/hardtop 2908 T/ttops Hrm...first printing for 93, as the later print doesn't discuss hard top turbos :( Wonder where the 86 extra pounds came from...and a hard top that's lighter than a t top car? I think the guys who made the brochure were on crack that day.... Late 93 brochure: 2590NA 2623NA/Ttop 2822T/ttop 95 numbers are the same as 94 (duh), so one of our brochures is wrong....I say Randy is wrong (heh heh) since the numbers in his brochure are so far out of whack :) David Hawkins ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:52:51 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes David Hawkins wrote: > > > > Per the '93 Brochure: > > > Weights: 2707 NA 2703 NA/ttops 2912 T/hardtop 2908 T/ttops > > Late 93 brochure: > 2590NA 2623NA/Ttop 2822T/ttop Well..I would try to buy a car made to the late 93 brochure specs...8) That is a huge discrepency..but it makes me wonder if any of the numbers regarding weight can be believed. Curious to hear what the 91,92 brochures called out. Anyone? Randy Chase '91 MR2 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:20:25 -0800 From: Avery Dinauer Subject: RE: MR2 94 Changes (What does YOUR MR2 weight?) Why don't we all post our car weights from the door jam, and see how they compare? I have a 91T (3/90) T-top all options except: Leather, Power Steering, Foggies, CD, Premium Sound. The door jam says..."GVWR 3370LB GAWR FR 1480LB RR 1950LB" well, lets see em' numbers! ave- - ---------- From: Randy Chase[SMTP:randyc2@home.com] Sent: Sunday, November 15, 1998 7:52 PM To: David Hawkins Cc: sgn1@ra.msstate.edu; MR2 Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes David Hawkins wrote: > > > > Per the '93 Brochure: > > > Weights: 2707 NA 2703 NA/ttops 2912 T/hardtop 2908 T/ttops > > Late 93 brochure: > 2590NA 2623NA/Ttop 2822T/ttop Well..I would try to buy a car made to the late 93 brochure specs...8) That is a huge discrepency..but it makes me wonder if any of the numbers regarding weight can be believed. Curious to hear what the 91,92 brochures called out. Anyone? Randy Chase '91 MR2 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:32:34 PST From: "Jeff G" Subject: Re: FW: MR2 fiero's I read a similiar one that compared an 88 supercharged to an 88 V6 fiero. The fiero accelerated faster (by a little), but the mr2 handled MUCH better. Jeff G >Motor Trend, Feb. '85, did a MR2/Fiero V6 comparison. Results: > > 0-60 1/4 Mi Skidpad >Mr2 8.73 16.63@81.1 .84 >Fiero 8.54 16.22@83.8 .80 > >Paul Kennedy >91T > > >> ---------- >> From: sullivanc@InfoAve.Net[SMTP:sullivanc@InfoAve.Net] >> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 1998 10:42 PM >> To: mr2-interest@mr2.com >> Subject: MR2 fiero's >> >> Hi everybody. I hate to waste the bandwidth here, but I have to spout off. >> >> Why in this world are Fiero owners sooo proud of fieros. They keep saying >> that a fiero will kick an MR2's butt all over the road, but the fastest >> 0-60 >> time I can find on a v-6 fiero is 9.6 seconds with a 16.3 second 1/4 mile. >> It is my understanding that a N/A Mk1 Mr2 has 0-60 of 7.5-8.0 and a 1/4 >> mile >> of about 16.0 seconds. So the question is WHY??? Then a fiero owner will >> boast about handling. with a 59 mph slalom and .81 skidpad, I can't see >> how >> it handles better than an 85 MR2. So I still ask...WHY!!! >> Looks.....don't make me laugh. >> >> comfort maybe...hahaahah >> >> check out www.fiero.org if you want to laugh. >> there is a good section on engine fires...the only way to see a fiero... >> >> >> Chris >> 91 Turbo. >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:38:39 -0800 From: Mister2 Subject: Re: MR2 94 Changes At 10:46 PM 11/15/98 -0800, Steve N wrote: >You mean the weight that was lost! ;) Compared to the 93 that is. for >some reason I was under the impression that the 94 weighed more than the >93. Guess not. I wonder if indeed the 94 rotors are bigger than the >93s like Brian said. hmm... I haven't seen too many 94-95 parts only on the ROMs or in my parts catalog. - - Jeffrey http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7153/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:52:08 -0600 From: "Jeffery S. Bihn" Subject: Re: FW: MR2 fiero's Kennedy, Paul M, NPG wrote: > Motor Trend, Feb. '85, did a MR2/Fiero V6 comparison. Results: > > 0-60 1/4 Mi Skidpad > Mr2 8.73 16.63@81.1 .84 > Fiero 8.54 16.22@83.8 .80 - - hmm a V-6 versus a 4 cylinder and the numbers are still really close - -- Jeff Rebel Motorsports - www.rebelmotorsports.com mailto:jsbihn@rebelmotorsports.com phone: 228-875-6485 fax: 228-875-3164 icq uin#: 2954300 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:00:34 -0500 From: Chris Subject: Re: FW: MR2 fiero's Sorry, I was getting my info from a real mag... ha, just kidding. Actually, I was trying to remember the numbers I have seen. Besides, would it be fair to compare a V-6 to a small displacement 4 cylinder? I think it still proves my point. Also, on the fiero homepage, they quote the fiero as 9.6 seconds and 16.3. Would they lie?? Besides, it was a boring sunday on the list and I was really wanting something to talk about. Chris 91 Turbo 0-60 6.3 seconds..15.0 quarter mile At 11:39 PM 11/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Motor Trend, Feb. '85, did a MR2/Fiero V6 comparison. Results: > > 0-60 1/4 Mi Skidpad >Mr2 8.73 16.63@81.1 .84 >Fiero 8.54 16.22@83.8 .80 > >Paul Kennedy >91T > > >> ---------- >> From: sullivanc@InfoAve.Net[SMTP:sullivanc@InfoAve.Net] >> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 1998 10:42 PM >> To: mr2-interest@mr2.com >> Subject: MR2 fiero's >> >> Hi everybody. I hate to waste the bandwidth here, but I have to spout off. >> >> Why in this world are Fiero owners sooo proud of fieros. They keep saying >> that a fiero will kick an MR2's butt all over the road, but the fastest >> 0-60 >> time I can find on a v-6 fiero is 9.6 seconds with a 16.3 second 1/4 mile. >> It is my understanding that a N/A Mk1 Mr2 has 0-60 of 7.5-8.0 and a 1/4 >> mile >> of about 16.0 seconds. So the question is WHY??? Then a fiero owner will >> boast about handling. with a 59 mph slalom and .81 skidpad, I can't see >> how >> it handles better than an 85 MR2. So I still ask...WHY!!! >> Looks.....don't make me laugh. >> >> comfort maybe...hahaahah >> >> check out www.fiero.org if you want to laugh. >> there is a good section on engine fires...the only way to see a fiero... >> >> >> Chris >> 91 Turbo. >> > ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #1930