mr2-digest Tuesday, November 24 1998 Volume 02 : Number 1993 Re: MR2 SC: Air water intercooler again Re: MR2 Ram air interest (Lots of info) Re: MR2 SC: Air water intercooler again Re: MR2 Left Front Speaker Questions... MR2 MkII NA vs MKII Turbo quandry MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #1980 MR2 MKII Speedometer cable and workshop manual MR2 Discovered problem..intake manifold MR2 Re: HID vs. Blue lights MR2 Tyres MR2 mk1 na vs. crx RE: MR2 MkII NA vs MKII Turbo quandry Re: MR2 Left Front Speaker Questions... MR2 Age survey MR2 Re: HID vs. Blue lights / Headlight drama Re: MR2 reversed polarity, ignition wires??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:48:53 -0800 (PST) From: Teddy Chen Subject: Re: MR2 SC: Air water intercooler again > I'm using an oil-cooler.... John Myers told me that Perma-Cool is the > best brand to use, but there are a lot of options if you want to save a > few bucks. isn't that a tube-and-fin oil cooler? those things are cheap (and i'm not talking about price). too much pressure drop, and they don't cool oil as well as a proper stacked-plate oil cooler. oil has pretty poor thermal conductivity. with a tube-and-fin cooler, you wind up with a cool boundary layer of oil while the hot oil flows right on through without getting cooled much. you need a lot more surface area to cool the oil effectively. - -teddy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:22:48 EST From: JDeRyke@aol.com Subject: Re: MR2 Ram air interest (Lots of info) I tend to agree there probably is no significant ram-air into the side vents. "Sugar-scoop' decklids always generate a huge low-pressure area right behind the rear window, which sucks air from below the car up past the motor & out the decklid vents. And a good portion of the underbody air has already been thru the radiator so is hotter than ambient= un-good for power. The lo- pressure area up there might help the stock intercooler airflow since its sort of sealed to the rt intake, but with removal of the stock airbox there may not be any flow at all into the drivers side intake area. Those are supposed to be NACA ducts, but a NACA duct must be built to precise dimensions with sharp sides & edges. The body stamping process keeps that from happening. Anyone ever see any airflow studies on the series 2 body? Even a photo of one running at Muroc/Edwards dry lake would be informative. Cheers- J DeRyke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:41:50 -0700 From: goodmatt@juno.com (Matt S Ledbetter) Subject: Re: MR2 SC: Air water intercooler again On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:48:53 -0800 (PST) Teddy Chen writes: >> I'm using an oil-cooler.... John Myers told me that Perma-Cool is >the >> best brand to use, but there are a lot of options if you want to >save a >> few bucks. > >isn't that a tube-and-fin oil cooler? those things are cheap (and >i'm not talking about price). > >too much pressure drop, and they don't cool oil as well as a >proper stacked-plate oil cooler. > >oil has pretty poor thermal conductivity. with a tube-and-fin >cooler, >you wind up with a cool boundary layer of oil while the hot oil flows >right on through without getting cooled much. you need a lot more >surface area to cool the oil effectively. > >-teddy > I'm not using it to cool oil, I'm using it for my Spearco liquid/Air IC. Between the Spearco core and the Perma-Cool unit, my intake temps drop well over 125 degree's.... - -Matt '88 Twincharged ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:59:33 -0600 From: Jason Dinkins Subject: Re: MR2 Left Front Speaker Questions... Whoah. Wait a minute Steve, when you say you "looked" at your wires, what did you do? I looked at my wires multiple times and was convinced it was the channel. I had the exact same problem you do (BOTH speakers) and it wound up being both the + and - wires leading to the left speakers (they splice to two other + and - wires) were broken. This involved removing the door panel and removing the speaker and searching from the speaker to the wire harness in the door. You may have to remove the "pull" handle in the car for your front hood to get to the appropriate wire clip. I had to, to be able to test whether it was the channel or not. Pull the clip and run two wires from the INSIDE of the clip (the male side I believe.. the one running from the stereo to the clip) and see if you get tunes. If so, then your channel is ok. If not, then your wires are most likely broken. Also you may want to slice the black factory wrap bundeling your wires in the door, as mine was loaded with water. Check out my dir at http://home.HiWAAY.net/~jdinkins/ Look at the algae jpeg for the water prob. These are also the two stereo wires you will be concerned with. I have door dismantling on that page as well. Take care, Jason 91T Steve Walls wrote: > > All: > > I have a 91 with a "Premium" audio system and two front left speakers > out. I looked at my wires the other day, and my speaker outage problem > was not found there. That leaves me with a blown channel. So is the > channel out in the Stereo or the amp? And if it is out in the amp, > where is the amp located. I have a friend who can fix it, either or, > but I have to find it first. Guess I'm down to a 50/50 chance if you > guys can't help me out. Thanks, > > Steve > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:05:48 -0500 From: David Beatty Subject: MR2 MkII NA vs MKII Turbo quandry You say the turbo had the original timing belt at 106,000 miles (46000 overdue) but supposedly had oil changed every 3000 with synth? Doesn't add up. I test drove a NA and then a turbo and I never could have gone back to an NA. The motorcycles spoiled me. for me the speed is most appreciated in passing on 2 lanes. A local toyota mechanic says the NA's around here are a dime a dozen, but the turbos are in demand. OTOH, I assume the NA is lighter, always a good thing. BTW, I have a 91T for sale, but probably too far away for you and, while mechanically and structurally in excellent condition, may not have enough goodies for you. essentially bone stock except for maintenance replacements and alpine remote alarm. David D. Beatty Myers Bigel Sibley & Sajovec, P.A. Patent Attorneys Suite 250, 111 Corning Road, Cary, NC 27511 PO Box 37428, Raleigh, NC 27627 Telephone: 919-854-1400 Fax: 919-854-1401 dbeatty@carolinapatents.com web site: www.carolinapatents.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:02:43 EST From: MR2DC@aol.com Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #1980 << > Anyway,, my question is... How do I open up the calipers to fit in the new > pads and rotor? Got me stumped. I've got the lid of the brake reservoir and > I tried pushing them etc... What gives? >> The C-clamp idea works for the fronts, but the rears need to be turned with a cheap little tool you can buy at most auto parts stores. Go in and ask for it and they should know what you are looking for. It fits on the end of a socket wrench and makes the job easy. hope this helps. Tyler ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:11:47 -0600 From: Jason Dinkins Subject: MR2 MKII Speedometer cable and workshop manual First, How easy is this to replace? Mine is too big and bounces the needle badly. Previous owner said this was the case. Can someone explain in detail the job to me? Second, where can I get a GOOD 91 MKIIT workshop manual? Take care, Jason 91T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:18:24 -0800 From: wongsun@WellsFargo.COM Subject: MR2 Discovered problem..intake manifold Well I didn't get any replies on my leak problem yesterday..but I found out the problem today. I am missing two bolts/nuts on my intake manifold. I started my car and could feel air shooting out pretty strongly out of at least one of them. I'm going to pick up the pair at a dealer hopefully after work. I'm very angry because the place that fixed my exhaust gasket manifold, told me I had a leak in my manifold. I suspect they took off the nuts and was hoping I was going to fix the leak at their place. Does anybody know how much can those two nuts affect power or running ability? Thanks in advance. Sunny 86 white na ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:20:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Scott L. Burson" Subject: MR2 Re: HID vs. Blue lights Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:55:12 EST From: AkTiF8@aol.com In a message dated 98-11-24 01:20:32 EST, you write: << Actually, yes I can tell the difference between them. However, I was asking the cops about the ones that come in the Mercedes, BMWs, Lexus, Porsches, etc. And they told me those are illegal as well, right off the new dealers' car lots. That was the discrepencies I was referring to. >> First off: the cops are wrong. I'm not basing this on concrete knowledge, just logic: If the car manufacturers are putting the HID lights on new vehicles, they must first have been DOT approved, or they never would have made it to production. Right. Second Off: your average cop is *not* going to know the difference between HID lights and regular headlights tinted blue If not, they'd better learn! Lastly: the blue lights you see on hondas etc are just tinted bulbs HID systems are utterly different from that: they're computer controlled and use something akin to a welding arc to light up contained Xenon. However, if you've ever seen those cheesy bulbs tinted bluish/aqua, the light isn't increased, but rather hindered. Which is one reason the tints are illegal but the HID lights are not. The other reason is, blue lights are supposed to be reserved for police vehicles. Although I think the HID lights are probably a good thing, I have to admit, when I see that bluish light in my rear view mirror, it definitely gets my attention. So they are blue enough to cause some confusion. - -- Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:25:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Scott L. Burson" Subject: MR2 Tyres Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:16:22 +0000 From: Alasdair_Seton-Marsden@spring.com I am about to replace all four tyres on my MR2 SW20 (1995) for the first time after completing 27,000 miles on the original Yokohama tyres. Can anyone offer me some advise on what is the best replacement tyre for this car? I am fond of the Yokohama AVS Intermediate. Good dry grip, good wet grip, progressive at the limit, not too awfully expensive, and they come in *lots* of sizes. The only downside I know of is that they're noisy. I think lots of people on the list use them. While we're on the subject -- does anyone know anything about the new AVS S1? - -- Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:29:42 -0800 From: wongsun@WellsFargo.COM Subject: MR2 mk1 na vs. crx Well last Saturday night, driving home with a fine girl, I was at a light and a gti (I think around 88) pulled up and started reving. I was didn't know what to do. Should I race him or look bad in front of her. So I was like what the hell, I haven't even brought my car past 5500 rpm yet. Well it was green, he got up to a good start, than my na pulled up and left him. I could see a fixed up crx coming up behind us. Well he got into the last vacant lane. We all raced on green and I pulled to a big lead, but the crx came up and beat me. My friends said that I'm not bring it high enough. I have been switching around 5750 or so...not even close to 6500 or 7000. Being a rookie, I'm afraid of hurting my engine. Is it ok to bring it to red line? Could have beat the crx (even if it was si) if I switched higher? Can and how do you make the car "chirp" on 2nd? Thanks a lot. Sunny 86 white na (waiting for a rematch with crx) custom exhaust, custom k&n intake, red hat engine, low profile lights, 89 tail lights, euro side markers, clear turn signals, and no beat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:32:12 -0500 From: Phil Cutajar Subject: RE: MR2 MkII NA vs MKII Turbo quandry Mike Dodd wrote: > You can race both, fast is a relative term, you are only racing against the > other cars in your class. Also, after my last auto-x I learned that the NA > can spank the turbo around a track with a better driver (Randy Chase :) > Well, it doesn't necessarilly take a better driver. SCCA events usually have tighter and slower courses where low-end torque and lack of turbo RPM levels (and turbo lag) will benefit the NA. However, at most PCA events I've been to, the courses are wider, faster, and can often benefit the higher powered cars, such as the turbo. In other events, I've seen the MK1 make the MKII's look absolutely green with envy. Again, course makeup plays a big role in this. I wouldn't go around generalizing that the NA can wipe the turbo (all else being equal), or vise versa. In reality, most of the Auotox events I've been to usually benefit the Miatas, and if you look at the results of the Pro Nationals, the Miatas were in fact faster than any MR2. So, if Autox is your only interest, sell your MR2 and get a Miata. I mean, they're faster in Autox, so they're a better car, right? - -- Phil Cutajar mailto:solo2_mr2@geocities.com page me; http://wwp.mirabilis.com/6032611 my MR2 page; http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6213/index.htm '93 MR2-Turbo, Super White, 75k miles K&N FIPK/MR.2-PP MBC/Marc Summers Wires&CAP/'97 clear corner lenses H&R springs/Tokico Illuminas/Energy Bushings/16" SSR Integral-A2's/Toyo Proxes T1+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:36:56 EST From: "Steve Walls" Subject: Re: MR2 Left Front Speaker Questions... Jason, Nope, it's not the wiring in the door either, that was the first thing that I checked. I took off the old tape (in the door), drained out all of the acumulated fluid, cleaned off all the scum, and checked the wires with a meter. The wires were fine, so I taped it all back up and went ahead and looked at the radio. Couldn't really do anything from there, so I asked you all. I have another question. The front channel is spliced to the tweeter and the door speaker, does the amp have a built in crossover that anyone knows of, or is it just running off that channel. Well, it's back to the drawing bord. Steve >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:59:33 -0600 >From: Jason Dinkins >To: Steve Walls >CC: mr2-interest@mr2.com >Subject: Re: MR2 Left Front Speaker Questions... > >Whoah. Wait a minute Steve, when you say you "looked" at your wires, >what did you do? I looked at my wires multiple times and was convinced >it was the channel. I had the exact same problem you do (BOTH speakers) >and it wound up being both the + and - wires leading to the left >speakers (they splice to two other + and - wires) were broken. This >involved removing the door panel and removing the speaker and searching >from the speaker to the wire harness in the door. You may have to >remove the "pull" handle in the car for your front hood to get to the >appropriate wire clip. I had to, to be able to test whether it was the >channel or not. Pull the clip and run two wires from the INSIDE of the >clip (the male side I believe.. the one running from the stereo to the >clip) and see if you get tunes. If so, then your channel is ok. If >not, then your wires are most likely broken. Also you may want to slice >the black factory wrap bundeling your wires in the door, as mine was >loaded with water. > >Check out my dir at http://home.HiWAAY.net/~jdinkins/ > >Look at the algae jpeg for the water prob. These are also the two >stereo wires you will be concerned with. I have door dismantling on >that page as well. > >Take care, >Jason >91T > >Steve Walls wrote: >> >> All: >> >> I have a 91 with a "Premium" audio system and two front left speakers >> out. I looked at my wires the other day, and my speaker outage problem >> was not found there. That leaves me with a blown channel. So is the >> channel out in the Stereo or the amp? And if it is out in the amp, >> where is the amp located. I have a friend who can fix it, either or, >> but I have to find it first. Guess I'm down to a 50/50 chance if you >> guys can't help me out. Thanks, >> >> Steve >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:38:14 -0700 From: wongsun@WellsFargo.COM Subject: MR2 Age survey I hope I'm too late. But I'm 19 and in college. I got the car when I was 18, 2 months after I got my license. The mk1 use to be my older brother's who moved to ny. It had been in the garage for about 2 years. The weird thing is that he traded his friend his crx for the mr2. I really liked the crx (2nd gen.) when I was little because it was really fixed, but now I really like the mr2 a lot better since I drove my friend's crx. All my friends all have new cars relative to mine, but all admire my mk1 and always want to test drive it. Sunny (can't wait to drive my 2 after work) 86 white na ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:05:44 -0500 From: "Tony Wang" Subject: MR2 Re: HID vs. Blue lights / Headlight drama I have driven on roads with not a soul in sight and not a lamppost or reflector to guide me. I found that my craporama H3 halogens bulbs were quite sufficient, even at higher speeds. I recently switched to sealed Xenon units and find them to be more than sufficient for pitch-black nighttime driving. The only thing really bright headlights do (even when properly aimed) is annoy me. As for the blue ones... they add HP, just like stickers, right? Tony 93T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:09:24 -0800 From: Kurt Krueger Subject: Re: MR2 reversed polarity, ignition wires??? Marc Summers wrote: > Now, as for reversing the polarity on the coil itself, then this could > produce some difference in the way the voltage effects the spark plugs > but I doubt seriously that even if it were done, that it would make any > perceptable difference. It can and does make a difference. A spark is actually electrons that jump from one spark plug electrode to the other. It turns out that it's easier to get electrons to leave a hot surface, the hotter the better. So proper polarity is to make the center electrode negative. Older coil and points ignition systems were prone to significant misfiring if the polarity was reversed. Newer high voltage systems should fare better, but you will lose far more spark energy by reversing polarity than you can gain by installing high performance plug wires. > > All I can say about this is, I would get as far away from these > wierdos, as possible. > What some people will do for a buck. Agreed. The replace the wires idea is a SWAG. But I'd say the most likely cause of reversed polarity is a miswired coil connector. Also in a convention ignition system you get a weak voltage output when the coil is energized of the OPPOSITE polarity of the strong spark that follows later. They could very well be seeing opposite polarity but are misinterpreting it. I'm convinced that your average mechanic is mystified by electricity, which leads to trial and error fixing. ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #1993