mr2-digest Thursday, December 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 2130 MR2 k of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd MR2 l of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd Re: MR2 A few Q's MR2 re: mkII bazzokas MR2 Re: remote starters MR2 Mulholland!!!! MR2 MKI or MKII - CAMS OR CAM GEARS? MR2 Forged pistons Re: MR2 re: political shit (MR2 content at bottm) MR2 j of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd Re: MR2 MKII, fixing stock CD player Re: MR2 MKI or MKII - CAMS OR CAM GEARS? Re: MR2 j of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd Re: MR2 shocks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 10:09:25 -0000 From: Subject: MR2 k of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd At the waning of the 19th Century automobiles were an "oddity," so much so that Barnum and Bailey used one as a principle circus attraction (Olyslager, 7 & 23)! Implementation of conveyor belts on production lines attempted to solve this problem From US$ 950.00 in 1908, the price of the Model-T Ford fell to US$290.00 in 1926, scattering 15,456,868 "Tin Lizzies" throughout the United States (Bailey, 753). Only thirty-odd years before, legislation and popular opinion generated market signals that perhaps this consumer product would be dealt its death blow during the infancy of its product life cycle by conservative, livestock loving legislators . But, that never happened. Why? What transformed public opinion so radically? The problem was no longer production efficiency; finding markets for this product was (Bailey, 753). In response, a new "arm of American commerce" developed that would, "by ploy, allure, and sexual suggestion," induce status quo consumer discontent insofar as their level of material wealth, and instill the virtue of realizing consumerist goals into the newly transplanted rural to urban work force (Bailey, 753). Circa 1925, in his best selling novel entitled The Man that Nobody Knows , arguably the most influential advertising executive of all-time, Madison Avenue's Bruce Barton, set forth a "seductive thesis" that Jesus Christ was the greatest advertising executive that ever lived; that every aspiring executive should intensively study the Bible (Bailey, 753). He wrote of the parables that "Šthey are marvelously condensed, as all good advertising should beŠ" and of Jesus that "Šhe picked up 12 men from the bottom ranks of business and forged them into an organization that conquered the world" (Bailey, 753). Five years later (1930), in tandem with active advertising partners, automobile sales crossed the 30 million unit threshold in the United States (Bailey, 753), an awesome display of the speed to which a new technology can transform life-styles when producers mate their manufacturing efforts with strategic, persuasive, well-conceived advertising arguments. In scant more than 30! years public opinion was wholly transformed, and the automobile became an integrated part of human life in the United States of America. Today, automobile ownership constitutes passage to adulthood, and social acceptance in this country. They have evolved to become remarkable pieces of electromechanical engineering that spectacularly glitter before our eyes. The distinct aroma of a new automobile is a sensory experience unlike any other. Aerodynamic in shape, from rugged terrain vehicles to hyper-fast Italian mid-engined pieces of modern day art, and all types in-between, they constitute century long refinements and trickle-down technology developed from aerospace and motor sport competition. These machines sport dual-overhead camshafts that actuate variable multi-valve governed combustion fed by electronic fuel injection systems that rival a Swiss watch in tolerance and precision. Suspension systems capable of holding close to 1g in a steady state battle against inertia are bolstered by stiff chassis and computer controlled electronic anti-lock braking systems that panic stop its 1.5 to 2 ton mass from 80 miles per hour, safely, in just over the length of half a football field. Manual transmissions offered ! in six-speed configurations, or automatic transmissions with five forward gears enable the user to cruise at posted speed limits at amazingly low engine speeds or surpass them effortlessly. Wide speed rated tyres mounted on lightweight alloy wheels allow the user to venture out to any speed comfortably and safely for hours of sustained high velocity touring across the blacktop with cup-holders, climate control and high fidelity systems that, in themselves would be the envy of any average third world family. Average urbanites inhabiting niches in developed industrialized economies mature to adulthood to cherish these marvelous creations. Once an individual experiences the freedom, and the power and control over motion this consumer product delivers, nothing else will doŠ The automobile is here to stay... Copyright 1998 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 10:09:41 -0000 From: Subject: MR2 l of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd E x t e r n a l i t i e s "He did nothing in particular, but he did it very well." W.S. Gilbert, Iolanthe All has not been rosy insofar as society's romance with their personal transportation units. The automobile industry has flourished despite ominous externalities created with widespread usage of this consumer good. Car culture was implicated as the chief culprit that induced urban sprawl. Sizable land use allocation and large governmental budgets are prerequisites to facilitating perpetuation of this intensely beloved life-style. Furthermore, the automobile has been implicated as a predominate contributor to global warming. For a good part of its life cycle, automobile mechanics innocently liberated chemical refrigerant from automobile compressors without an inkling that the chlorofluorocarbons were a stratospherically photo-reactive catalyst that preys upon that which shields us from high frequency electromagnetic bombardment. For the better part of its life cycle, the automobile combusted leaded fuel. These metallics, spewed ex post of combustion, were implicated as a predo! minant contributor of lead poisoning, an anthropogenic malady responsible for inducing learning disabilities discovered in urban school children. The internal combustion engine is in the waning phase of its evolution. Engineers have demonstrated their ability to extract horsepower from ever smaller engines through efficient design while simultaneously reducing tail pipe emissions. By its very nature, though, the internal combustion power plant is filthy. It relies upon controlled explosions that create energy that is mechanically transferred through a series of helicles to wheels that translate torque and maintain motion. An air-fossil fuel mixture is introduced into a combustion chamber when the camshaft lobe actuates open an intake valve. Almost simultaneously, the camshaft advances to strike an exhaust valve, facilitating the moving piston's return motion that forces out the expelled gasses. These expelled gases are then channeled out the back of the automobile so that the motorist does not crash his vehicle as a result of becoming asphyxiated by these highly toxic emissions. These expelled gasses that were implicat! ed in their contribution to air pollution consisted of carbon monoxide, ethylene, hydrogen sulfide, hydrocarbons, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, and aerosols (Patterson, 2). Toxicological externalities inflicted upon living beings exposed to concentrated levels of "polycyclic" (Haroz, 77-86) emissions are awesome. These toxins are effective in inducing learning disabilities in children (aforementioned), reducing immune levels, and are contributors to the increasing the frequency of melanoma. "Polynuclear" emissions possess ominous "co-carcinogenic, co-mutagenic" axioms (Haroz, 77-86). These toxins can alter DNA. Despite what effects internal combustion has upon its surroundings, the automobile is cherished, perhaps now more than ever. Despite the automobile's substantial contribution to global warming, acid precipitation, and atmospheric turbidity as a result of the combustion of fossil fuels, society cannot sever itself from the awesome marginal benefits this product del! ivers. Rather, society chose another path. A rather difficult one, Copyright 1998 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:42:58 -0600 From: Jason Dinkins Subject: Re: MR2 A few Q's Will Erickson wrote: > > 1. Was a limited slip available in 91 or 92- I know it was in later > years. LSD is not avail on 91/92 MR2s. However it's been said that a few 92s have it. > 2. Was there any type of performance or racing package as a factory > option? Unlike the RX which is avail as Base, Touring, or R1 (Racing package) for 93 (then R2s 94+), the MR2 comes in 2 sizes: N/A and Turbo. > 3. Anything in particular I should look out for when examining a > prospect? EGR, Manifold Warp > 4. What kind of gas mileage do they get? just kidding I dunno.. I don't watch mileage too closely... > Also, if anyone knows of any for sale within, say 300 miles of > Cheyenne,WY (please-no sheep jokes- I was transferred here against my > will) I am looking to pay less than $9,000, no higher than 70k miles, > any color is okay, but yellow is what I want. Any help would be greatly > appreciated.-Will If you are trying to get a yellow turbo and leaning toward a FACTORY lsd, you're looking at 93+ Signal Yellow turbos (list correct me if I'm wrong). You will be HARD PRESSED to find a 93+MR2T with under 70k miles for under 9k. Especially in yellow. Just curious if you intend to keep the Talon and Rx7. You'll have quite a choice when determining what to drive to work eh? Um.. keep the mr2 in the garage..heh.... Take care, Jason 91T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:43:23 EST From: AkTiF8@aol.com Subject: MR2 re: mkII bazzokas This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_913920203_boundary Content-ID: <0_913920203@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_913920203_boundary Content-ID: <0_913920203@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: AkTiF8@aol.com Return-path: To: kblake@mail.teleport.com Subject: Re: MR2 re: mkII bazzokas Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:32:01 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-12-16 20:22:42 EST, you write: << Hi Keith, I apologize for the somewhat dated information-I researched/bought my 6 1/2 inch Bazookas over 4 years ago when I bought my 88NA. In fact, my particular model is no longer being produced by SAS. It looks like not much had changed until this year. >> don't be silly! no apology necessary, i just wanted to clarify for the sake of someone looking to buy these tubes. Sorry for implied tone of typing, didn't mean to seem condescending or anything! <> I'd love to! Let me know if you want to organize something to start this up: maybe a session on #mr2? keith - --part0_913920203_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:42:41 EST From: AkTiF8@aol.com Subject: MR2 Re: remote starters In a message dated 98-12-16 23:20:28 EST, you write: << Good example: If your 2 was in a parking lot and thee was a car parked in front of you, and the owner of that car was putting something in the trunk, you had accidently left your car in gear (parking brake or not) and somehow your remote starter gets activated either by a short circuit or by your own effort, the car will lunge forward crushing that persons legs or worse, killing them. Sorry to get so heavy on you but, I used to be an installer so I've been confronted with your question before. Hell I want to put one in my car, but I won't until I come up with a fail safe. >> somewhat funny story...this actually happened in a parking lot by me, and I got to see it. A girl used her remote starter on her 5spd POS, and it went forward about 20ft, running right over a median, into a lamppost, and sideswiping another car. evidently, she forgot her parking brake or something, or the car moved regardless. moral: don't get a remote starter :) on a somewhat related note, i saw a car catch on fire yesterday, just sitting in a driveway. It wasn't a fiero (hehe) but some sort of old ford econobox. no, i'm not accident prone, and no, i'm not pyrokinetic. I just happen to see this stuff often hehe. keith 91na (not on fire, and not randomly rolling across the parking lot) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:53:17 -0800 (PST) From: patrick smith Subject: MR2 Mulholland!!!! DID someone say canyon?????? Sams back...... Patrick "gettingdizzytryingtofindsamstaillightsinthecanyons" Smith http://www.isi.edu/~marsh/qckmr2.html >Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 03:53:45 -0000 >From: >Subject: MR2 Mulholland Raceway, Anyone? >Dear Digest, > Since we're having some terrific weather >here in L.A., perhaps >I'll >hack up Mulholland during the wee hours this >weekend... I never seem to >encounter whussies on Mulholland. Go figure. > Well, end of a punishing semester... I >haven't driven my 4agze >since >September. Better hide the women and children, me >buckos: No >Prisoners... >time to put my good rubber down. >Best, > Sammy Joseph, '88 4AGZE >PS- I'll send along the tailings from a semester >project that should >sufficiently deflate your spirts. == Patrick Smith IMOC SO CAL www.MR2.com http://www.isi.edu/~marsh/qckmr2.html _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:07:28 -0500 From: dkchal@datasync.com (Donald K Chalfant) Subject: MR2 MKI or MKII - CAMS OR CAM GEARS? You don't have to pull the head to put on new springs. Tell 'em Dave A. But the stock springs should work just fine anyway. >Will cam gears provide much of a hp gain on stock cams? > >How critical are new valve springs with a set of cams? If I need new >valve springs then I >have to pull the head which I'd rather not at this time. - - The Strawberry Kid 8-} May the Seeds be with you. 86na89sc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:11:23 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Ginter Subject: MR2 Forged pistons Does Toyota make forged replacements for the 3S-GTE? If so, does anyone have the part numbers. I've contacted JE and it looks like they're gonna be about $100 for the piston only (dished with reliefs). Just want to compare prices (I do realize that JE is going to be a much better piston). On a related note, Spearco has given me some wonderful prices on intercoolers. I can get their biggest unit with tanks for about the same price as the Greddy. Of course I would have no where to put it but its good to want things (1500 cfm baby!). They have one that would probably fit in the stock location for under $600. Darren ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:11:32 EST From: DaddyCat1@aol.com Subject: Re: MR2 re: political shit (MR2 content at bottm) In a message dated 12/16/98 8:08:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, bsp81@webtv.net writes: << Keep it off the damn list! If you want to debate it, call a friend or one of CNN's talk shows. >> I agree. BUT, every time someone posts something on topic, there seem to be 100 more messages tellng him/her to cut it out. THAT's where the mail congestion occurs. So if everyone would just ignore the first e-mail, it would die right there and then. Make sense? Rhetorical question--no reply required. BTW, we should lift all sanctions to relieve the Iraqi people, resume inspections, then immediately bomb the crap out of anything old Sodom doesn't let us look at. Either that or make Iraq the 51st state and tax the heck out of him! Again, pls do not reply. MR2 content: I think Iraq would make a great drag strip or autox course. Cliff Skajem, San Jose, CA (soon to be Las Cruces, NM) '93 NA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:20:39 -0500 From: dkchal@datasync.com (Donald K Chalfant) Subject: MR2 j of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd MR2 content? - - The Strawberry Kid 8-} May the Seeds be with you. 86na89sc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:35:52 -0500 From: parashooter@juno.com (Pete Pappas III) Subject: Re: MR2 MKII, fixing stock CD player > It turns >out that the flat cable running from the laser to the circuit board >has been catching on one of the ICs on the board, and most of the >conductors are torn If I'm not mistaken, Clarion makes them....Steve? I haven't open one of these up yet so... is the ribbon cable a "wire" type or a "film" type? (I'm guessing film...) if it's the wire type, you can take an old hard drive cable and peel off the number of conductors you need. (best part, it's free) If it's the film type (looks like a plastic film with black or gray traces for conductors) it get tricky. It "can" be repaired, but it's not easy. You need to get one of those "defroster repair" kits, some clear packing tape (not fiberglass) and a LOT of patience... If it is the film type, let me know and we'll talk...it'll take too long to explain here. I did this successfully on my laptop keyboard cable (old and not replaceable) it just takes determination and a surgeons touch.... Pete '91T (2#7) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:58:13 -0500 From: Jason Hirst Subject: Re: MR2 MKI or MKII - CAMS OR CAM GEARS? Donald K Chalfant wrote: > You don't have to pull the head to put on new springs. Tell 'em Dave A. > But the stock springs should work just fine anyway. > The reason I say this is because it doesn't appear that a spring compressor can be used with the head in place. If there is one that can be used what type is it? I'll get cams if I don't need to pull the head. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: caesar Subject: Re: MR2 j of z: The Pro-Active War on Car Culture, Cont'd I tried to look for it too, but the post were way too long for my short attention span. =-) --Caesar On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Donald K Chalfant wrote: > MR2 content? > > - > The Strawberry Kid 8-} May the Seeds be with you. > 86na89sc > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:09:54 -0800 (PST) From: Andy McKee Subject: Re: MR2 shocks Randy "I don't need no stinkin' TVR" Chase wrote: > Konis: > a little softer range > more expensive (about $145 ea) > Dampening adjustable only (?) but doesn't seem to matter > Harder to adjust (knob required, difficult to fit on the rears MKII) > Can't visually see what your settings are. Have to use the knob and > fully turn one way and count turns. > Variably adjustable...you can set it anywhere in between the end points. > Most national drivers use Konis. > > Tokicos: > Stiffer range > Cheaper ($95 ea or so) > Dampening/Rebound adjustable > Easy to adjust with a small right angle screwdriver > You can quickly tell where your set at on numbers 1-5. > Not so many choices in settings can be a good thing. > Quality may be a notch below Koni, but they do have a lifetime warranty, > which I have used. > Lifetime warranty requires you to take the strut off and send it to > Tokico and wait 6 weeks while they test it and admit it's not good. Not > many people can disable their car that long. > I would also say the Konis have a softer range, but would add I think that they are better dynamically than the Tokicos. I guess that would fall under the category of "feel". The adjustment of the rear Konis really isn't that difficult, it just may take a minute instead of 20 seconds. I'm not sure if the rebound only adjustment on the Konis is a big deal (they come with a fixed compression setting). What I don't like about Tokicos is that they do the compression/rebound change with one adjustment (at least this is how I understand it and may be wrong). This can be a real problem if you want to run a large bias between compression and rebound (i.e. soft on compression, stiff on rebound or vice versa). In my experience with various cars I've almost always run compression pretty stiff (which the single adjustable Konis come like), and make more adjustment with rebound only. This would be impossible with the Tokicos. I liked the double adjustable Konis on my old Integra GS-R (sold to my sister to transport kids and groceries, or what an Integra was really meant for), but after playing around quite a bit, I ended up with compression very stiff F/R and rebound soft F, stiff R (i.e. the compression adjustment probably wasn't necessary). So, to summarize, I'd spend the extra bucks and get the Konis if you are going to use them seriously. Otherwise, save you sheckels and get Tokicos. And to add to Randy's comment, most National drivers use Konis and WIN.:-) - -Andy McKee '91 NA _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #2130