mr2-digest Saturday, January 9 1999 Volume 02 : Number 2246 Re: MR2 How to tell if a plug is working Re: MR2 How to tell if a plug is working MR2 rubber seal replacements MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #2243 MR2 eRAM Dyno run Re: MR2 eram??? Re: MR2 tires on 14" Re: MR2 bicycle on MkI? MR2 Another movie sighting Re: MR2 tires on 14" Re: MR2 3 or 5 series engines Re: MR2 this guy needs a rack...mr2 Re: MR2 MKII: Turbo Downpipe Details Re: Re: MR2 this guy needs a rack...mr2 dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) Re: MR2 tires on 14" Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run Re: MR2 tires on 14" Re: MR2 Another movie sighting MR2 MK1 bike rack Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:20:12 -0600 From: Matt Kowske Subject: Re: MR2 How to tell if a plug is working On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 08:42:44AM -0400, Steve Bagdon wrote: > I've found that if you run the car too long with water in the cam-valley, the cap/rotor go to crap. I did a test a while back when I first bought a daily-drive, after cleaning it with steam/water, and found that even when it was dry, the cap/rotor still needed to be replaced. I'm sure there's a tech term for it, but the cap contacts looked like the '91T contacts - white, crusty, etc. Tried scrapping it off, but gave up and just sprang for a new cap/rotor set. > Hmmm... just wondering, why would the rotor and cap go bad if the water is no where near it? (down in the spark plug wells) ? I'll check it out. - -- Matt Kowske 86 NA 88 NA (for sale) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 99 21:17:56 EDT From: "Steve Bagdon" Subject: Re: MR2 How to tell if a plug is working Same question I asked myself, after this happened enough times to me (over the last 10 years). One theory is that the water in the well grounds the plugs/wires to the head (sort of iffy, as the head is aluminum), and that spark energy from the coil/ignitor has to go *somewhere*, and a major spark is created in the cap/rotor, instead of at the spark in the chamber. This theory would create a big spark in the cap, burning the heck out of the contacts. Steve B. - ---------- On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 08:42:44AM -0400, Steve Bagdon wrote: > I've found that if you run the car too long with water in the cam-valley, the cap/rotor go to crap. I did a test a while back when I first bought a daily-drive, after cleaning it with steam/water, and found that even when it was dry, the cap/rotor still needed to be replaced. I'm sure there's a tech term for it, but the cap contacts looked like the '91T contacts - white, crusty, etc. Tried scrapping it off, but gave up and just sprang for a new cap/rotor set. > Hmmm... just wondering, why would the rotor and cap go bad if the water is no where near it? (down in the spark plug wells) ? I'll check it out. - -- Matt Kowske 86 NA 88 NA (for sale) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 18:34:38 -0800 From: Nick Yee Subject: MR2 rubber seal replacements hey all, i got new t-top seals for my 91T, does anyone have instructions on how to take the olds ones off? thanks in advance! nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:43 MST From: marcus@illusion.magicno.com Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #2243 >Just wait. It will be sooooo cool. Instant Dyno with real world results >and instant feedback, interface to a laptop or your palmtop. Track, >autocross, rally results..braking points, shift points, elapsed times, >g-forces, horsepower, 1/4 miles..will map out track/course/rally maps >AFTER you drove them... Oh, the pain of waiting!!! >And it's way better than that wussy G-Tech... Subject: MR2 eRAM Dyno run Just got back from the dyno shop and thought I would post the results on a 1984 911. This car has a AFM like the E30 and others and here are the results. We went to Frey racing and ran the car stock from the street , only having a cat bypass tube as modifications. 201 hp to the ground to runs, both within 1 HP. Then we added the eRAM to the Inlet of the airbox, keeping the filter intact, just mounting right up to the inlet with a silicon tube. Resuts were 9 hp up to 209HP, gained at 6000 rpm and an average of 5-6 ft lbs of torque from 3000 to 6200 rpm. The fan was run off the alternator /battery, so their is no question that the power gained is the power gained. Remember all the talk about the fan costing 5 hp for a messly 30 amps. well , Yesterday's dyno run of the MR2 showed that was not true as the separate battery vs the cars electrical system yielded no measurable differences. (some areas of the curves were actually more with the cars battery vs the separate battery. The M3 88 E30 is slated to be tested next week and we hope to see the same gains. We think this potential is significant as it is a gain from start to finish. Area under the curve from 4000 to 6200 is like a 20 hp cam that only kicks in at 5000rpm. Porsche 928 up 9hp Honda civic up 4 hp Porsche 911 up 9hp BMW e30 next week Mark Kibort. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 19:45:46 -0800 From: Matt Gawlowski Subject: Re: MR2 eram??? Wow, a little impatient, huh? He's gotta scan the graphs, and add video taken, plus do a complete writeup, we did close to 10 dyno runs total. My car was the test mule, so I can say with absolute certainty that the dyno testing was done last nigjht and you'll be hearing about the results very soon (I don't have a copy of the data in front of me so don't want to quote any numbers). :-) - -Matt G., '91 White NA Bsp81@aol.com wrote: > wasn't today the day that Mark was supposed to show us the dyno graphs of his > remarkable vacuum intake? I'm assuming Dave has been fasting in anticipation > of eating the eram so what gives? > Brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:39:14 -0400 From: bluemr2@juno.com Subject: Re: MR2 tires on 14" Huh? Are we talking MKI or MKII? I thought MKII were 6" front, 225 max and 7" rear 245 max. My steel wheels are 6" & 7" on my '91, I really don't think that the alloys would be smaller. Brian '91 MR2 4em _____________________________________________________________ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:12:00 -0800 (PST) From: Dane M Subject: Re: MR2 tires on 14" Im sure larger will fit but I wouldnt personally feel safe mounting much if any larger than 215s on the factory wheels since they are only 5.5" wide.BTW,are you of any relation to Montanah Awad,I bought my 91 mr2 from him. - - ---Rami Awad wrote: > > Hi > Just curious...What is the max tire width on the OEM 14" mags? > i heard somewhere 215 can fin on the back...does anyone know if 225 fits? > how about the front? > Thanks in advance > Rami 92 NA > awaiting tires, fogs, front bumper, alignment, left fender, head porting > job, dyno tests... > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 21:53:55 -0600 From: Dan Subject: Re: MR2 bicycle on MkI? Michael D. James wrote: > > Has anyone on this list had much luck carrying bicycle(s) on a MkI > MR2? The FAQ hints it's possible. I have an '88 NA with T-tops. I have a flat-bar receiver hitch made by Hidden Hitch. I am going to use my trailer hitch mounted rack to transport my bicycle. The draw bar is removable when not in use. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:50:46 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 Another movie sighting Howdy folks. Just went to see Civil Action and there's a MKI hiding in the background. It's an overhead shot of a later silver car when they are going onto the Tannery property. David Hawkins 93T 85 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:43:26 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 tires on 14" >Just curious...What is the max tire width on the OEM 14" mags? >i heard somewhere 215 can fin on the back...does anyone know if 225 fits? >how about the front? You can cram a 225 onto the 6" front, but it's a squeeze and you'll need a spacer to clear the strut. On the 7" rear you could probably run a 245 if you can find one. The 93s came with a 225 on the back from the factory. Same width, different diameter. David Hawkins 93T 85 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:58:57 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 3 or 5 series engines >can anyone tell me what the difference between the 3 and 5 engines are? 3 series in the MR2 were the turbos. 5 series were the NAs. Don't know the specifics besides the 3 series is 2.0L and the 5 is 2.2L. >What year was the cut off. don't know what you mean....they were fitted in all MR2s between 90 and 95. The 5S-FE was also a Celica and Camry engine. >What engines were fitted with the stock turbo? 3S-GTE >What engines were fitted with the AFM ? All MKI cars (4A-GE and 4A-GZE) sold in the states and all turbo cars (3S-GTE) sold in the states. US NA cars (5S-FE) had a probe in the intake tract that was used for fuel metering (not what I consider a MAF...what do you call it?) David Hawkins 93T 85 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:01:55 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 this guy needs a rack...mr2 >I'm told the Yakima will fit, contrary to their own fitment guide. David Hawkins >can get one from Japan that looks pretty cool, although he says it's over-priced >compared to the Yak. It's overpriced and doesn't work very well with a bike (I almost lost a $2000 Cannondale several times on my trip from WA to FL). Don't know how it would do with a board, but you have to get your accessories for it from Toyota as they aren't standard types. The Yakima and Thule short roof racks should fit the car fine, I just haven't had time to go play with the different mounts to find the right ones. David Hawkins 93T 85NA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:47:21 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 MKII: Turbo Downpipe Details >if you dotn have a flex joint i question the longevity of the >setup.....along with it being stainless steel.....these have a >tendency to crack under the stresses of the high temps associated >with the turbo.....has anyone addressed this? I wouldn't doubt the longevity at all. I'm pretty sure that The Beast is running a downpipe with a solid B pipe, and at 24psi and enough torque to whack the wastegate against the TRD strut tower bar it's a true test. I'm salivating just thinking of seeing that car again next weekend. Come on out to Bham folks! David Hawkins 93T 85 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:10:03 EST From: PmPofSurf@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: MR2 this guy needs a rack...mr2 i didnt know that yakima or thule made a surfboard attachment for their racks. on the porsche that i had i used a aloha universal hard surfbaord rack, i ordered it from a place in cali. they also make a gutterless version,,about 80$ for each, they work great, fit up to 8 boards too. these are also available at almost any reputable surf shop. Zak ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:15:30 -0500 From: mark kibort Subject: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) RE: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) We tested a MR2 1991 last night. results were confusing and disappointing but interesting. We ran 7 dyno runs, all doing something different . 1. First we started out with the car from the street fitted with a 2.6" pipe and a 8" k/n cone filter . looked fairly clean and low restrictive.. 103 hp to the ground , baseline. 2. Then hooked up eRAM to the electrical system and ran with the k/n filter 104hp 3. then took the filter off and hooked the eram right to the main elbow thinking that the elbow must be killing efficiency of the fan. 104hp, NOPE, a blue print of above 4. now , confused, we just started changing other things. We hooked the eRAM to a separate battery for no drain on the alternator, as this was discussed by many ,and wanted to make sure. 104.5 hp and 1 less foot lb of torque, basically, no change and now we know that alternator producing 30 amps is negligable. 5. put stock air box on with stock filter. This is a much more restrictive set up 106.5 hp Hmmm what is going on here?? more restriction and more power. Soundsl like a lean situation 6. put eRAM on to stock air box to blow into filter box 107.5 box was a little leaky, but that would really be the only problem here. Still no gains as expected 7. pulled the filter out of the air box and ran eram into it to gain a even more unrestrictive set up. 107hp hP actually went down. So, for some reason , the stock fuel system of the '91 mr2 does not like more or denser air. I think it either is very sensitve to flow, or we succeeded to lean the mixture out as the fuel was not matched. (anyone here??) I really am torn between thinking the fuel is not matched and the possibility of the air flow thru a shorter tube , creating turbulence in the intake plenum and loosing power regardless of its density due to the eRAM.( although it was a positive gain , albiet small, when ever it was turned on) What do you think? Remember this same test was on a V8 porsche with 8 hp gained, we just tested tonight a 911 porsche 6 cylinder 3.2L , and a 4 banger honda with 4 hp gained , doing the same test The porsche and BMWs have either AFMs or Massflow. the Honda uses ???? It however responded very well. Ive seen the AFMs on MR2, which models have them? Anyone know if the MR2 turbo has a different fuel metering system. what versions or years , have an AFM ? What air fuel systems do the newer MR2s have, I dont think the 91 years fuel metering system is very good. (this explains why the bolt on mag found no increase in HP in changing the exhaust and intake systems. as the Factory maps to their air flow need, and changes dont do anything, or very little!!!!!!!!!!! I want to test on a turbo next week that has a different fuel management syste. Can I do that before I have to eat plastic? Im willing to bet another $100 bucks on another dyno run to not eat the fan. David , have any kepchup? Mark PS if you want to look at the dyno runs for the porsche or the MR2, let me know, and Ill email them to you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:27:51 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run >well , Yesterday's dyno run of the MR2 >Porsche 928 up 9hp >Honda civic up 4 hp >Porsche 911 up 9hp >BMW e30 next week After all the grief you have gotten over this, you do the dyno run and give us results for every car tested BUT the MR2??? I give up.... David Hawkins 93T 85 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:39:54 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) >I want to test on a turbo next week that has a different fuel management >system. Can I do that before I have to eat plastic? >Im willing to bet another $100 bucks on another dyno run to not eat the >fan. David , have any ketchup? Actually, Mark, my bet was for the turbo only. That aside, I too am flabbergasted by the results that you got. I would have sworn that it would have worked wonders with the NA, as it should adhere to the same principals as the cars you tested before. I assume that you checked that the temp probe was in the intake pipe (I've seen them hanging loose in the engine compartment)? Sorry to hear the disappointing results, but now you see why we insisted on an MR2 test. I'll be curious to see if the AFM makes any difference... if you test a MKI, that will let you see as they all had AFMs. David Hawkins 93T 85 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:22:57 -0800 (PST) From: Dane M Subject: Re: MR2 tires on 14" He said that he had a Mk1 - ---Randy Chase wrote: > > Stock rims are 7" wide on the rear and 6" wide on the front. > > Randy Chase > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:28:15 -0600 From: "David Shotwell" Subject: Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run > > > >After all the grief you have gotten over this, you >do the dyno run and give us results for every car >tested BUT the MR2??? > >I give up.... > >David Hawkins >93T 85 > > Did you read the article? He had the results in there....... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:31:46 -0600 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run >Did you read the article? He had the results in there....... The article hit the list right after I posted this. My apologies Mark. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 19:35:27 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 tires on 14" Dane M wrote: > > He said that he had a Mk1 > > ---Randy Chase wrote: > > > > Stock rims are 7" wide on the rear and 6" wide on the front. 1. I sent that to you privately, hoping to save you embarrassment. Net etiquite is that you don't quote private mail to a list/digest. 2. No..he has a 92 NA MKII. Here is the original quote: >From Rami: >Hi Just curious...What is the max tire width on the OEM 14" mags? i heard somewhere 215 can fin on the back...does anyone know if 225 fits? how about the front? Thanks in advance Rami 92 NA awaiting tires, fogs, front bumper, alignment, left fender, head porting job, dyno tests... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:12:51 -0600 From: "Steve Hoult" Subject: Re: MR2 Another movie sighting >Howdy folks. Just went to see Civil Action and >there's a MKI hiding in the background. It's an >overhead shot of a later silver car when they >are going onto the Tannery property. Just flipping through the channels after Discovery Channels "Inside Speed" ended and E! had a feature on Miami's South Beach. And there on the main drag was a Super Red MKI parked where everything was happening. Steve Hoult '89 MR2 SC ASP9 Subscribe to the MR2 SC mail list at http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc www.mr2sc.com Got Boost? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 21:47:32 PST From: "Todd klosnick" Subject: MR2 MK1 bike rack Hi, Whoever wants to know more about a bike rack for an MK1 I have this article from a Sport Compact Car magazine I have showing an installation on an 85 hardtop MR2. Pretty detailed with pictures. I can dig it up if you want. later, Todd 87na ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 00:10:05 -0600 From: Shawn Douglas Subject: Re: MR2 eRAM Dyno run David Hawkins wrote: > >Did you read the article? He had the results in there....... > > The article hit the list right after I posted this. My apologies > Mark. > > David David replied to mk's post that I recieved at 21:15 which, in part, stated the following (note: lack of MR2): Porsche 928 up 9hp Honda civic up 4 hp Porsche 911 up 9hp BMW e30 next week It was not until the post from mk, that I received at 22:15 (1 hour later), that the MR2 failure is mentioned. I think that David H is being 'an officer and a gentleman;' much more so than I would be if I were he. SCD ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #2246