mr2-digest Tuesday, January 12 1999 Volume 02 : Number 2271 MR2 MKII low rise headlight conversion Re: MR2 '99 autocross prep (anti-sway bar prices) Uhh. Re:E-ram on an MR2 Turbo? What?!!! Re: MR2 -MKII- Turbo: APEXi AVC-R Opinions? RE: MR2 MKII low rise headlight conversion RE: MR2 How to tell if a plug is working sway bar end links (was Re: MR2 Pillow Ball Tension Rod?) Re: MR2 cusco pulley Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) Re: MR2 Gforce ECU HELP!! Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 - GTECH Re: MR2 how do you test Hp with a g tech Re: MR2 E-ram and Terry MR2 dyno calculations Re: MR2 TD05 turbo Re: MR2 MKII: Turbo Downpipe Pic + Info Re: MR2 Re: correction from Aly Abul-Kheir Re: MR2 MK1 Na cusco header? exhaust systems? MR2 MkI Won't start-please assist! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:21:32 -0500 From: rewatters@pepco.com Subject: MR2 MKII low rise headlight conversion I just found this on the web. Many people (including myself) were interested in headlight mods. I found a place that sells the kit to make your headlights pop up half way and have 2 separate lights in each headlight assembly. Check it out... http://www.flash.net/~mr2mart/page4.html - -Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:39:40 -0600 From: "Nathan Dyck" Subject: Re: MR2 '99 autocross prep (anti-sway bar prices) Anti-sway bars are fairly chear for the MKII MR2 now: Cabe Toyota in LBC, CA. Mr2 club for the 20-30% discount or talk to Jeff Barton. 800/576-2223 x272 TRD Front Sway bar for 91 MR2T $144.87 list is over $219 CAP www.cyberauto.com Suspension Techniques Anti-Sway Bar Kit Front Only, 50225 (24mm), $123.90 Modification of these bars at your local machine shop shouldn't be very much. Both bars have a bushing kit. Nathan Dyck MKII MR2 Autocross FAQ http://web.mitsi.com/autocross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:40:03 PST From: "Steven Hausherr" Subject: Uhh. Re:E-ram on an MR2 Turbo? What?!!! I really don't think the blower is worth installing for the actual Hp increase. Like a lot of people said already, why not just crank up the boost a little? But I think the turbo could maybe benefit from the fan in regards to lag and spool response. If you had positive pressure on the intake side of the turbo don't you think it spool faster? Less drag on the turbo.. Eram would also need some adjustments. It should come on at half throttle. Just my thoughts. >>>> I'd like to know how a 1/2 psi blower is going to make any difference on a mk2 turbo, that already has a pressurized intake, already pushing a minimum of 9psi of boost? >>>>> What's your idea of a performance engine? Exactly what makes a performance engine a performance engine? Hp, Redline? Throttle Response? Low torque high hp? It sounds like the only thing the 5SFE is lacking is better cams.. Have you ever owned a mkIINA? Better yet even driven one? Just curious.. >>>> This is the only normally aspirated performance oriented motor in the group, no offense at all to our mk2 NA friends. >>>> Steven 91NA of course.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:08:48 -0800 (PST) From: Avery Dinauer Subject: Re: MR2 -MKII- Turbo: APEXi AVC-R Opinions? I put one on my 91T, but it doesn't quite work properly. The injector duty cycle never gets very high, and the boost never holds too steady(no matter what duty cylce I use). From time to time I can get it steady, but I think the injector reading is throwing it off. I'm the only one I know of who's had this problem, never the less it exists. I have a LOT of confidence in the installation, I did it myself. I think a manual boost controller might have been a better choice. IMHO, EBC's are some what of a rip off for the price. Avery- 91T On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Ali S wrote: > > I have the avc-r on my 93 turbo and it works great. Holds boost well at > high rpms...With no boost control running stock boost, the stock turbo > on my car would always drop about .15 kg/cm^2 after 5500 rpms. Im > running about 16 psi now and it drops about .1 kg/com^2 after 6000 rpms, > which is better than stock at way higher boost levels.. The injector > duty cycles is a good feature that no other ebc offers. The apex unit > has only two preset boost modes, but that is usually all you need.. > > Ali > > > I'm in the market for an EBC, and I was eyeing the APEXi AVC-R, mainly > >because it has the built-in injector monitor. Can anyone give me > feedback > >on this unit? I've been told that it doesn't work very well on all > cars > >(is the MR-2 one of these?). Also, where does it take the injector > >readings from? TIA, > > > >Travis Emmel > >travis@ucsd.edu > >__________________________________________________ > >"Some's bastards, some's ain't, that's the score." > >--Jack Kerouac, On the Road > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:13:10 -0700 From: "Tracy, Austin" Subject: RE: MR2 MKII low rise headlight conversion please, someone on the list be a guinny pig for this company. >From what I see, this kit is overpriced and under-engineered. I may be wrong, but I have been working on this kit for a while, and there is far more than just "modifying stock parts" to do this. Bob, you want to be the first? If so, please let the digest know, IN DETAIL what you get, and how you personally feel about the kit. I may be wasting my time on the kit we are designing, but I sincerely doubt it. Austin T - -----Original Message----- From: rewatters@pepco.com [mailto:rewatters@pepco.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 8:22 AM To: mr2-digest@mr2.com Subject: MR2 MKII low rise headlight conversion I just found this on the web. Many people (including myself) were interested in headlight mods. I found a place that sells the kit to make your headlights pop up half way and have 2 separate lights in each headlight assembly. Check it out... http://www.flash.net/~mr2mart/page4.html - -Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:17:56 -0500 From: Lyn Fatt Brian Subject: RE: MR2 How to tell if a plug is working I gotta' tell ya'...You guys have a greater tolerance for being zapped than I do. Even with insulated pliers and thick leather work gloves. I still jumped and involuntarily uttered a few words when I held the plug boot to remove it. (That was with BRAND NEW wires BTW.) The easy way to check the plugs though is to purchase a $5 spark plug checker from Harbor Freight. :) Regards, Brian brian.lynfatt@travel.eds.com > -----Original Message----- [snip] > Matt Kowske wrote: > > > Well it looks like all the water in my spark plug wells has > evaporated, but the engine is still missing for some reason. > Is it possible that the water standing in there for so long > could have damaged a spark plug or wire? How can I tell > which spark plug isn't firing? I know they have to be > grounded... so If I reomve the plug, put it in the wire and > toucch the base of it to the head, and crank the engine, > should I see sparks? I don't have a megger or voltmeter or > anything like htat... TIA [snip] Then Adam wrote... > > Well you might want to get a timing light and check the > timeing....as for telling wich plug isnt firing...just pull > off the wire and if the engine starts to sound funny then > it's not that plug.well using your bare hand wouldnt be the > smartest idea in the world so use a pair of pliars with > rubber insulation on the handle.good luck. > Adam > 86NA(New Clutch=new tires in 1000 miles;) > 88SC(still down and out:( > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:27:49 -0600 From: "Nathan Dyck" Subject: sway bar end links (was Re: MR2 Pillow Ball Tension Rod?) >Terry Wrote:> >> These are more commonly known as "heim-joints" in racing suspension circles. > >ahhhhhhhhh!!! now is all comes back to me!!! > >the fella from pann, who also worked on the SCC MR2 at alamo, >suggested these joints to me to make my own adj sway barz....anyone >done this? > >terry These joints would be used on adj. end links that would go with an adj. anti-sway bar. They can be expensive, depending on the quality and size that you get. I was working on a design like this for a while, but neither the ST or TRD bar were suitable for my setup, and I don't have the money to have Addco make some custom bent bars for me. Instead I just flattened the end of the TRD bar and added more holes. See my web page for a detailed write up: http://web.mitsi.com/autocross Nathan Dyck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:34:12 -0800 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: MR2 cusco pulley At 07:09 PM 16-10-96 +1000, Rob wrote: >Hi Tommy, Guys > >Agreed, 200hp is a bit optimistic from the Cusco pulley alone, it could >be 200 PS. > >PS is like a Horsepower but with much smaller legs, I guess the P is for >Pony. Whats the conversion from PS to HP again??? > >Thanks >Rob 200hp x .98 = 196ps Regards, Stephen Gunter. icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the toyota-mods web ring ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:05:47 -0800 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) At 03:45 PM 09-01-99 -0500, Rami Awad wrote: >Damn! >That really sux. >I was hoping the dyno's would be good...But i was shocked! Why is the stock >5SFE only developping 106.5 Hp???? that's 11-13 HP below what it should be >assuming 20% loss. If you assume a 20% loss, the wheel hp would be 108. 20% is high though. Regards, Stephen Gunter. icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the toyota-mods web ring ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:03:34 -0800 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 (salt and pepper anyone?) At 12:17 PM 09-01-99 -0800, Matt Gawlowski wrote: >It didn't give huge gains and did fall a little short of expectations, but it DID add horsepower to my car. TRD had trouble extracting dramatic hp gains >from this engine as well (I spoke on the phone with one of their engineers about this), I think the eram's performance was very good given the inherent >design flaws this 5SFE powerplant seems to have. 1hp is very good????? Regards, Stephen Gunter. icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the toyota-mods web ring ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:44:31 -0800 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: MR2 Gforce ECU HELP!! At 12:50 PM 09-01-99 -0600, Chris King wrote: >>> Hey everyone...I just got my ECU back from Luke at Prototype Racing. I >>> plugged the wire harnesses back into the ECU, and reconnected the >>> battery. But I can't freakin start the car!!! > >It's disappointing that such a large percent of the ECU's have been shipped >back incorrectly installed. From the number of people who have spoken up, >sounds like maybe 50% are goofed. Looks like Monday I will find out if mine >was done correctly as the UPS man left his little note on my door Friday. > >Chris K. For the record, the GT-4 ECU I sent in as part of the original GP was perfect when it came back. It started a re-built engine on the second crank of the key. Regards, Stephen Gunter. icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the toyota-mods web ring ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:33:19 -0800 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: dyno test for the eRAM on MR2 - GTECH At 03:42 PM 10-01-99 -0500, Rami Awad wrote: >Wait a minute r u saying the MKII mr2 NA is losing 27% through the >drivetrain??? >is this what i will multiply my dyno runs to get crank power in the near >futur...(sound fair to me...) Just a quick note here. After running your car on thedyno, you do not multiply the dynojet figure to get the flywheel hp. Rather, you divide the dynojet figure. For exapmle: lets say you got 125.4hp on the dynojet. Assuming a 15% loss through the drivetrain, you should then divide 125.4 by .85 That would result in 147.52hp at the flywheel. Most people multiply teh figure; 125.4 x 1.15 = 144.21 The difference is very real, and the correct wayis to divide. For whatit's worth, I usually use 10-15% for tranaxle's and 15-20% for gearbox/differentials. 20% sounds too high for a MR2 transaxle. Regards, Stephen Gunter. icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the toyota-mods web ring ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:33:34 -0500 From: mark kibort Subject: Re: MR2 how do you test Hp with a g tech Message text written by Ross Stewart >I did some testing of a custom stainless steal to K&N filter intake modification against the stock air box. There is a significant difference, the stock box with a K&N filter installed creates 4 times as much vacuum between the filter and throttle body / intake as the modified setup. At first I thought the noise was too much, but I've decided I can live with it. I will test it with the G-Tech next weekend. Ross 95NA< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ross, how did you measure your "4 times vacuum". did you do this under full load and test the vacuum? This a real problem with stock air boxes as I have found also. but I dont think that just putting on a tube with a cone filter cures it. Let me know how you tested . good stuff. Mark Kibort ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 99 16:48:12 +0000 From: kblake@mail.teleport.com Subject: Re: MR2 E-ram and Terry Geoff Wrote: > > I was thinking of this as a way to pay for the bandwidth that mr2.com uses. > Sometimes people just need a little incentive to "donate" and a value added > service provides that. > I was doing some research last night for the car audio page I'm putting up on my site, and figured hey, let's see if there's an NSX page out there, the car has a similar layout to an MR2, maybe they have some good ideas about speaker location etc. I successfully found the American NSX club only to find that you can't even access the site unless you submit a valid NSX VIN# and pay an annual membership fee of $40. Now I don't know what they get for their $40, but I think we should all be grateful for MR2.com and our "Free" mailing list. Thanks to Geoff, Andrew and Salsgiver Engineering. Ken 91T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:59:52 -0500 From: mark kibort Subject: MR2 dyno calculations Message text written by Stephen Gunter >If you assume a 20% loss, the wheel hp would be 108. 20% is high though. < not really, the 20 % loss is twenty percent of 130 right. thats more than 16 to17% loss which would be rear wheel X 1.2. or 16% loss that would be rear wheel X 1.19. Its kind of like the profit margin problem. ROI vs profit margin. its easy to think 1.2 X is the same is a 20% profit. its not, that is ROI. anyway, just fun with the numbers. So, at a 17 % loss 108 would be 130 hp 108X 1.20=130 or 108 divided by .83 (17% loss) = 130 see how that works mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:10:25 -0800 From: Mister2 Subject: Re: MR2 TD05 turbo At 10:22 PM 1/11/99 PST, Ali S wrote: >Im considering buying a used hks sport turbo. The turbo has been rebuilt >and is a td05/06 18c. Anyone have any experience with this turbo? How >much power will it gain compared to the greddy td06 kit? >sport compact car got a 40 horsepower gain with the hks unit, td05 16g. A pure TD05-16g HKS Sport Turbo has gotten ~238 whp from Brian Sakata's car on a stock intercooler. Running 17psi I believe. He may be able to get a bit more w/ an upgraded intercooler. Comparing the CT26 to a TD05-16g I think they should be pretty similar in terms of performance so it would be hard justifying $3000 for a turbo upgrade kit that results in very minimal return. I've heard of folks who have spent more money to have their HKS TD05-16g upgraded. The DSM guys have good results with hybrid TD05 TD06 turbos... Chris Long had some upgrade done a while ago and liked it. I don't think he posts that much anymore. Anyhow, the HKS system gives you a similar turbo to a CT26 and no provisions for additional fuel delivery. Why do you think that is? If people have run out of fuel on a bone stock CT26 killing a good motor, why would you want to upgrade to a turbo that doesn't need to have additional fuel requirements? OTOH, Greddy's IC'er allow AIC bungs and gives you a laggy TD06 20g 8cm turbo. They know their turbo will lean out the 430cc's... hence the AIC bungs. Just ask Jeff Fazio if the TD06 Greddy was too much air for the 430cc's. But you have a point, if you have a 2nd hand HKS kit that has been upgraded already ... then it's definitely worth owning for a the right price. Since the turbo has been upgraded for more flow, I would definitely look into a pump and 550cc's. - - Jeffrey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:08:41 -0500 From: dkchal@datasync.com (Donald K. Chalfant) Subject: Re: MR2 MKII: Turbo Downpipe Pic + Info Prolly 'cause Wayne can't weld SS. 8-} >That price is about right for a SS muffler. It's less for mild steel. I'm >not sure why Terry is suggesting against SS aside from cost. All out race >systems are made from stainless or Inconel for a reason... However, the cost >of bends would probably be close to your total budget The Strawberry Kid .. 89SC and 86na 2sweet2s ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:20:11 -0500 From: "Aucott, G.D. (David)" Subject: Re: MR2 Re: correction from Aly Abul-Kheir Mark, I don't know what leaf blowers you're talking about, but mine is a gas powered backpack (pro) model that blows a sh*tload of air. I never use the diffuser and the outlet is the same size as the MK1 intake pipe. Believe me, I checked. As I said, I wish I'd have tested it. > but look at the opening usually 1" x3.5" . when you look at the output > of the fan when you pull off the attachment, (making the hole about 2.5 " , > it barely can mess your hair up. low flow high pressure is the > charateristics of these types of blowers. > Now , axial flow blowers like the eRAM can generate 700 cfm at .5 psi and > thats a 120 to 150 mph speed of air out of a 3.3" hole. > this is substantial. Ask Matt G what he thought of it when it was in his > hands. - -- Dave A. '93T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:23:52 -0500 From: "Aucott, G.D. (David)" Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 Na cusco header? exhaust systems? TerrySaltzman@home.com wrote: > > additonally folks, TRD now has a hedder available for the mki. i > think it was a year ago i spammed the list for TRD offering that they > had a hedder they wanted to fit and dyno on a test car. but nobody > replied (who was able to do it)...........guess they have to give you > one "free" eh?.......heh...guess im not the only one?......heh.....;) > > if anyone wants pics of the TRD hedder ill scan it for you....... > > terry (will do anything for free parts!....;) Terry, et al, TRD has always had a header available for the MK1. Is this a different one? The one they've had for years we've tested with minimal to no results on stock motors. - -- Dave A. '93T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:24:18 -0500 From: dkchal@datasync.com (Donald K. Chalfant) Subject: MR2 MkI Won't start-please assist! I'd take the terminals off the battry, clean, check battery voltage from clean posts and specific gravity of electrolyte. Also acid levels will be telling. Cold weather ... hard on batteries Brooks. Might be new batt time. >Hello all, > >I know this is a stupid, general automotive question, but, well, I'm >still learning. > >My 85 won't start. The buzzer sounds "healthy" when I open the door, >the clock and light that illuminates the ignition are on full, then >when I turn the key, everything goes out, and I don't even here the >click of the starter or anything. I tried jumping the car, and it >still did the same thing. A little history...the car was sitting >outside for about two weeks, one of which was with temps in the low >10's and snow. Possible contributing factors. > >Could I have blown a fuse somwhere, or is the battery just totally >dead? I'm not sure. Thanks for helping me with my inane questions. >I want to get my 85 running so I can keep the 91 in the garage. > >Thanks again! > >Brooks K. > >91 black n/a >85 white/rust > The Strawberry Kid .. 89SC and 86na 2sweet2s ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #2271