mr2-digest Friday, July 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 3336 Help IMOC raise money for a new MR2.com server, and pick up cool IMOC mugs, stickers, and T-shirts in the process! See http://cheetah.salsgiver.com/shirts/ for T-shirts, http://www.twosrus.com/imoc.htm for mugs, stickers, and more. --- Subjects ---- mr2 Mk1 pulley question & Random thoughts. ["Yarde, Philip" ] Re: mr2 Used stock turbo wanted [MR2Turbo91@aol.com] Re: mr2 MR2 MkII (91 n/a) Fog lite install questions ["Turbo5S" ] mr2 More stereo connector possibilties - DigiKey [Dave Inskeep ] mr2 radiator replacement ["Steve Bagdon" ] Re: mr2 [mk1] larger motor and Toyota News, Wall StreetJournal ["Turbo5S"] Re: mr2 Engine Bay Cleaning... [Mikey ] Re: mr2 can turbo be added onto a stock n/a? ["Turbo5S" Subject: mr2 Mk1 pulley question & Random thoughts. My question..... Is there a "one piece" pulley to replace that two piece cast iron thing.(Mine wiggled lose and chew up the edge of the oil pan) Second Reading the post about the "larger engine" for the MK1 and the twincharger (SC & turbo) system cam up a couple of times, But has anyone ever thought of or tried a Twin Turbo system? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:02:11 -0400 From: Kevin Kling Subject: Re: mr2 Fwd: Toyota News in the Wall Street Journal (Long, no MR2 content, part 1) >I'm not even going to start about the idiocy of the current mindset of clean-air >nuts (their methods, not their goals), but there is one mistake in this article - >that about the function of the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor is used to control fuel >mixture, so a faulty O2 sensor could cause the engine to run rich, which would make >for worse emissions. The article is correct that the SECOND O2 sensor is there just to check the condition of the cat converter so it does not do anything for fuel mixture feedback. That way the ECU can complain if there is something wrong with your cat. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:43:50 -0400 From: Jose M Hernandez1 Subject: Re: mr2 air filter options This eRAM, can be used on a mk1 MR2? Anyone has try it... It looks like a nice way of getting some power on your car. Jose mark kibort wrote: > Hi Derek, > > The eRAM is an electric supercharger, albiet only 1psi, it gains about > 5-6% HP on the dyno on most all cars. > It is a unit that bolts right on to the AFM or aftermarket intake tube, and > is activated by a microswitch at full throttle. > It is an axial flow superchager, that alows it to be inline and not cause > any restriction when not on.T > Check out the web page for a full description. It was heavily debated, and > many on this list dont want to discuss it > any further. We have a dual version as well that generates double the > pressure, but only 50% more HP over one alone. > > Regards, > > Mark Kibort > eRACING > www.electricsupercharger.com > > he Message text written by "yuend" > >Sorry for my newness. What is an e-ram? > > Derek > > 91T< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:56:24 EDT From: MR2Turbo91@aol.com Subject: Re: mr2 Used stock turbo wanted In a message dated 7/23/99 11:19:31 AM US Mountain Standard Time, autoquartz@yahoo.com writes: > > Hi all. I'm looking for a used stock turbo, which has to be in good > condition. If anybody out there is parting out his/her car or just > happen to have a "healthy" stock laying around, please let me know. > Thanks. > chen, it would probably be cheaper to send yours out to the place where the Turbos have been rebuilt not sure of what the place is that does it... but it costs like $400.. what's the name of the place that recently donated a gift certificate for a rebuild? I think we should give them a bunch of our business Austin T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:01:29 -0700 From: "Turbo5S" Subject: Re: mr2 MR2 MkII (91 n/a) Fog lite install questions Heh, that's funny I had a bulb in my dash with the proper template, just wasn't wired anywhere so I had to splice the switch wire from it. Sometimes you really have to wonder what all these changes are about. It seriously is a $1000+ fog light "kit" that includes several harnesses to be plugged in various places on my '93 according to the Toy dealer. Mike > The relay socket is in the right front fuse box. The '91 NA I used to own, > as well as the '94 NA I have for sale, were both wired complete. The only > thing you won't have is the dash light showing when they're on. You can put > a bulb there, but the green template is solid instead of cut out showing an > icon of a light. > > Ron > http://www.mindspring.com/~ronrut ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:01:54 -0700 From: "David A Soares" Subject: Re: mr2 MR2 Where did this Eaton info come from? - -----Original Message----- From: Roger S. Prior To: MR2 SC ; MR2 Interest Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 8:31 PM Subject: mr2 MR2 Where did this Eaton info come from? >Hi all, I was wondering where this info came from? I think it was David with >his Eaton blown sc. > >> Eaton blower >> Run 12psi street and 18psi on the strip >> At 18psi the 4agze, with internal modifications, is rated at 360hp at the >> flywheel. >> 7psi is to keep it smog legal but the Eaton's M62 blower is capable of >> 30psi. Yep. That info came from me. >Im curious what would happen if it was taken up to 30psi, how much hp and >torque would you get.. Don't know. If I ever happen to get a couple of spare ZE blocks and trannys and drop my second gob and put all my free time and money into tuning my MK1 on the track and dyno (instead of changing diapers) then I will know. The farthest Iv gotten my Eaton blower up to was 20 psi (because of the ported/polished head it probably was closer to 22-23 psi) and driving my car got WAY to scary so I brought down the boost level. At the time my suspension and wheels weren't up to the task of 22 psi but Iv since up graded to GC adjustable springs with Illumina shocks and 17x9 in the rears. This summer Iv mostly spent getting the final details done on the car and I couldn't have picked a worse time because of the arrival of my 4 month old daughter so it will be some time before I get the car out on the track to see what its really capable of. I will add that (out of three runs @18 psi on slicks) on the 1/4 mile my fastest time was 12.7 @ 117mph. My 86 NA chassis is much lighter then Gerald's 88 SC chassis so I pretty sure my car is capable of low 12s without the need to push to the 30 psi level. >Gerald has mentioned he has taken his twincharged MR2 up to 30 so it has >been proven the engine can take it. Iv been wondering how high he had turned up his boost. If indeed the 4AGZE can handle 30 psi then I just might go ahead and turn up the boost on my Eaton blower to close to that... Naaa.. I don't want to be the one to find out that the 4AGZE cant handle 30 psi from a blower. I will stick to 18-20 psi and finish up installing the 50 shot direct port NOS system Iv have siting in my parents garage. > >The reason why I want to know is if enough hp can be delivered from the GZE >Id stick to using it over using a different engine/drivetrain etc. >Roger S. Prior >89SC That's the thing Roger. How much hp is enough hp? Its not worth the trouble of dropping in a 3SGTE or V6 or V8 if 250-300hp is the hp goal you are looking for. The 4AGZE is well capable of producing that. The thing is it requires a lot of mods to the head and block to reach 300+ hp but then you will always have the thought of "will my block reliably handle 300 hp" in the back of your mind. Most people would like to try and take the easy rout of installing a motor that requires very little mods to the block and is well known to be capable of 300hp. Hell.. I contemplated that. Not every body wants to be tarring down their motors at the end of every race season. They just want to drop in the motor and forget about it. Im telling you people. The 4AGZE will not let you down. Its been proven by not only me (Well, still yet to be proven to you guys) but by Gerald and Matt and a few others that the 4AGZE is well capable of 300+hp. If you do the necessary modifications and you don't get careless it will do it with its know reliability. David's MAD MR2 86 MK1 Eaton blown 4AGZE 16v 88 SC parts car ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:10:50 -0800 From: Mike_Eversoll@FarmersInsurance.Com Subject: mr2 can turbo be added onto a stock n/a? and if so, can it be done inexpensively? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:15:00 -0600 From: "Paul Seikel" Subject: Re: mr2 [mk1] larger motor and Toyota News, Wall Street Journal >The problem with the small block in the tail is that you've >gone from = snap >oversteer to SNAP RIGHT NOW oversteer. Just WAY to >much weight in the = rear. put the battery in the front of the car, that should help. >He has >ran his GZE up to 30psi, although Im not sure at this time >how much = power he >was pulling. I figure since the Eaton can handle up to >30psi that would = be a >great alternative to using a twincharged system. How in the world does one run 30 psi? would you even get combustion at = those pressures? And regarding the Wall Street Journal article, I know some of you guys are = in Cali, Why do californians let the government control stuff like they = do? are the majority of californians just like that? I guess i'm lucky, = my parents moved away from there when I was four. Paul Seikel 85 CS 91 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:22:20 -0600 From: "Paul Seikel" Subject: Re: mr2 Engine Bay Cleaning... When i take my car to the car wash, it is usually at oprating temperature. = with an idea of how hot the turbo gets, i am curious: is it safe to = spray water on it when it is at operating temperature? Since I live in an = apartment, i have to drive to the car wash place. As a result, i haven't = washed the engine since i bought it in October. Paul Seikel 85 C stock 91Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:25:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Inskeep Subject: mr2 More stereo connector possibilties - DigiKey Yes, I'm still farting around with my left door wiring harness connector. I just went to the DigiKey site (thanks to whoever posted that address) and noticed that they have a connector that looks remarkably like the one for the left side door wiring harness. It's the Mini-Fit Jr. connector on page 53. I'll have to measure my connector when I get home and see if it will work. Anyone ever use these for their MR2 or anything else? Dave _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:27:19 -0400 From: Joseph Obernberger Subject: mr2 MR2 PT Turbo Upgrade Just got off the phone with Performance Techiniques and the guy there told me that the 54 trim wheel is the smallest wheel offered - then comes the 50, then 57, then 60. Apparently the 50 and 57 are very similar in size, and the 50 is significantly larger than the 54. Anyway - thought that was interesting. Bye. joeo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:29:26 EDT From: "Steve Bagdon" Subject: mr2 radiator replacement In preparation for restoring the a/c on the '85NA (soon to be '85SC), I replaced the radiator today. The PO replaced the original right before I bought it, but the non-oem was crap. The bolt holes for the fans were in the incorrect place and some were holes rather then nut-studs, and there was a drain (bottom) and vent (top), but neither had a tube, so when draining you just pulled it (no control), and the vent had no tube for proper venting (see 'burping your coolant'...). Also, the pipe fittings (the part that the rubber hose goes onto) was made of thin-wall mild-steel, rather then the oem thick wall steel (as thick as the hold where the temp-sensor goes - so they bent just trying to get the hoses off. After seeing this unit, there is *defintely* a difference between non-oem and Toyota. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:30:10 -0700 From: "Turbo5S" Subject: Re: mr2 [mk1] larger motor and Toyota News, Wall StreetJournal > And regarding the Wall Street Journal article, I know some of you guys are in Cali, Why do californians let the government control stuff like they do? are the majority of californians just like that? I guess i'm lucky, my parents moved away from there when I was four. > > Paul Seikel Heck I wouldn't "let" them if I had a choice! Not sure how these laws get passed really...Anyone care to inform me what one can do? (Please don't say vote) It seems to me the majority of Californians don't give a (r@p.. at least whenever I bitch and moan I get a lot of shrugs. Guess that's just the way society is out here.. Mike C ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:33:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikey Subject: Re: mr2 Engine Bay Cleaning... in a word....NO!, you'd probably detroy the turbo on the spot by doing that a single time Mike On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Paul Seikel wrote: > When i take my car to the car wash, it is usually at oprating temperature. with an idea of how hot the turbo gets, i am curious: is it safe to spray water on it when it is at operating temperature? Since I live in an apartment, i have to drive to the car wash place. As a result, i haven't washed the engine since i bought it in October. > > Paul Seikel > 85 C stock > 91Turbo > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:38:19 -0700 From: "Turbo5S" Subject: Re: mr2 can turbo be added onto a stock n/a? Can be done, has been done awhile ago. Not cheap. (Well that's relative right?) I'd guess you would need to spend in the ballpark of $3k. If you can do a lot of your own work and fabrication (welding).. a little less. And if you are willing to use used parts even less. Mike C > and if so, can it be done inexpensively? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:38:55 -0700 From: "David A Soares" Subject: Re: mr2 [mk1] larger motor? Was TRDNW 5SFE turbo update I mean heck, if Fiero guys can drop a small block V-8 in their >[bleep] cars, we should come up with a similar alternative for our >Lotus-designed gems. If Fiero guys were jumping off bridges would you? When I clown a 99 Vett or a 98 Saleen Mustang in my 86 MK1, do you know what gives me the greatest satisfaction? Its not that I humiliated them. Its the fact that I did it running a factory 4 cylinder MK1 motor that is 3 times smaller then their big ass V8. David's (big Ass V8 clouning) MAD MR2 86 MK1 Eaton blown 4AGZE 16v 88 SC parts car > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Steve Bagdon >Subject: Re: mr2 TRDNW 5SFE turbo update > > >> I was under the impression that Yamaha only designed the head, not the >entire long-block. >[Snip!] >> >> Steve B. >> >> > - - good point Andrew. in fact could this be another idea for a Project >>MR2 by >> >Steve Bagdon? >> >Steve, what do you think? >> > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:43:03 -0500 From: "Steve Hoult" Subject: Re: mr2 [mk1] larger motor and Toyota News, Wall StreetJournal >>The problem with the small block in the tail is that you've >gone from snap >>oversteer to SNAP RIGHT NOW oversteer. Just WAY to >much weight in the rear. >put the battery in the front of the car, that should help. Come on, your adding several HUNDRED pounds to the rear and moving the battery is an answer? It is one thing you can do, but it's no answer. >>He has >>ran his GZE up to 30psi, although Im not sure at this time >how much power he >>was pulling. I figure since the Eaton can handle up to >30psi that would be a >>great alternative to using a twincharged system. >How in the world does one run 30 psi? would you even get combustion at those pressures? It's all in how you plumb it. The car in question is John Welch's turbo MKI. It's custom and has lots of tweaks to ensure good running. I think he normally runs between 18-21 lbs. As far as combustion at high pressures, the CART cars have run up to 150 psi at times. Steve Hoult '89 SC ASP 9 Flat Duck Racing Visit the MR2 SC Registry at www.mr2sc.com Join the MR2 SC Mailing list at www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/mr2sc Got Boost? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:02:12 GMT From: phunk@inil.com Subject: Re: mr2 Fwd: Toyota News in the Wall Street Journal (Long, no MR2 content, part 1) I noticed that part about the o2 sensor also. Thats kinda wierd. What you say about methods not goals reminds me of the way things go around my office sometimes. Ill have copy-writers telling me what they want the web page to do, say, look like, and ill tell them they cant just tell me that and expect to have it done real soon, sometimes it takes a long time, it depends on the scenario, but they dont care what it takes, how much it costs, they just want it their way, right away. i know its not like that only in my office, im sure you all get to deal with bullshit like it everyday. i really, really... REALLY, just cannot stand even a dose of ignorant people. I can understand expectations and goals of EPA and what-not, but they appear to just act prematurly. They get an idea, jump on, and fuck everyone regardless of how rediculous it is. >I'm not even going to start about the idiocy of the current mindset of >clean-air >nuts (their methods, not their goals), but there is one mistake in this >article - >that about the function of the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor is used to control >fuel >mixture, so a faulty O2 sensor could cause the engine to run rich, which >would make >for worse emissions. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:51:16 -0700 From: "David A Soares" Subject: Re: [mr2sc] RE: mr2 [mk1] larger motor? Was TRDNW 5SFE turbo update On this note, fellow SCer Bert Stadnyk recently saw a Mk1 SC (at a local drag strip) with a 2.0l Mitsubishi Turbo shoehorned into it (facing opposite way) Mitsubishi motor in a "TOYOTA"??? That's sacrilegious. That guy should be hung by his balls! My .02c David's MAD MR2 86 MK1 Eaton blown 4AGZE 16v 88 SC parts car ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:51:16 -0700 From: "David A Soares" Subject: Re: [mr2sc] RE: mr2 [mk1] larger motor? Was TRDNW 5SFE turbo update On this note, fellow SCer Bert Stadnyk recently saw a Mk1 SC (at a local drag strip) with a 2.0l Mitsubishi Turbo shoehorned into it (facing opposite way) Mitsubishi motor in a "TOYOTA"??? That's sacrilegious. That guy should be hung by his balls! My .02c David's MAD MR2 86 MK1 Eaton blown 4AGZE 16v 88 SC parts car ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:01:14 EDT From: Turbo2Guy@aol.com Subject: Re: mr2 Engine Bay Cleaning... In a message dated 7/23/99 2:21:59 PM Central Daylight Time, Paul_Seikel@amrcorp.com writes: << When i take my car to the car wash, it is usually at oprating temperature. with an idea of how hot the turbo gets, i am curious: is it safe to spray water on it when it is at operating temperature? Since I live in an apartment, i have to drive to the car wash place. As a result, i haven't washed the engine since i bought it in October. >> I'm in the same situation...I'll go the the car wash. I've thought about the same thing...But for the last year or so I'll go there...open up the engine bay, run the cooling fan without the engine on (via turbo timer), and walk to the Stop-N-Go next door and grab a soda and a snack...then come back and wash the exterior of the car...it can be a good 45 minutes to an hour before I get to the engine bay... It's been excellent so far.... Just my .02 cents.... Tre' Ridings ('91 Turbo~Yearning for a Blitz engine lid to show off the clean engine bay!) P.S. If the engine is *really* hot I've been known to let it cool by going to the sports bar that's also next door...he he he... ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #3336