mr2-digest Thursday, March 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 423 Re: MR2 Test to bounce Re: MR2 MK2 engine problem Re: MR2 Test to bounce Re: MR2 "what's this 'thingy'..." MK1 Re: MR2 MKII Wheels and Tires Re: Cops & Laws (used to be MR2 Symbols) re: MR2 Legality of look-alike body kits MR2 Mr2-I'm leaving...and midwest stuff. MR2 NW or Seattle meet ????????????? MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #415 MR2 MkI factory alarm Re: MR2 Haltech E6 MR2 Ken Sweet, you out there? Re: MR2 insurance during storage? MR2 Re: mr2 changing the timing belt MR2 Stereo specs - replacing door speaker sizes and tweeters in a MkII Re: MR2 Frozen parkingbrake MR2 where to get Ferodo Brakes? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:11:39 -0600 From: "Barry Hart" Subject: Re: MR2 Test to bounce O.K. We won't. 8) - -B Hey, somebody's got to be the smartass! - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew P. Tasi To: mr2-interest Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 5:43 PM Subject: MR2 Test to bounce >Testing only. Do not respond to this message. > >-Andrew > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:19:28 -0600 From: "Barry Hart" Subject: Re: MR2 MK2 engine problem It's in the '86 manual so I'd be willing to bet it's in the '85. - -----Original Message----- From: S and K Bagdon To: Dirk Sieber ; mr2-digest@mr2.com Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 6:52 PM Subject: Re: MR2 MK2 engine problem >>Y'know, I don't know if the '93 manuals are different or something, but in >>my owner's manual (the little thing titled "1993 Owner's Manual", which is >>what I assume you're referring to) I can't find any documentation on the >>error codes, or how to retrieve them. For that matter, it doesn't explain >>how to flush the coolant, either (although there are instructions on how to >>check it, and top it off). It does, however, explain how to change the >>light bulbs. :-) >> >>Do I have a different manual than what you're talking about, or am I just >>missing something? > >Dude, that garage floor is *freezing* (Detroit), I should have put some >socks on... :) > >I didn't spend much time leafing through the '91T manual, but I found the >trouble-codes (and how to get them), and how to replace all of the light >bulbs, in chapter 7 ('Do It Yourself Maintenance'). As well as oil changes, >spark plugs, distributor cap (I believe), etc. I didn't spend the much time >to look for the coolant flush section, but I'd swear it's in the '85 manual >(other car, but that's in the driveway, and I'm *not* going out there now). > >Think they dropped that stuff from the '93 manual? > >Steve B. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:16:31 -0600 From: "Andrew P. Tasi" Subject: Re: MR2 Test to bounce >O.K. We won't. 8) > >-B > >Hey, somebody's got to be the smartass! That's why we have Terry. ;) > >-----Original Message----- >Subject: MR2 Test to bounce > >>Testing only. Do not respond to this message. >> >>-Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:27:55 -0500 From: "The Ark" Subject: Re: MR2 "what's this 'thingy'..." MK1 Me as well, didnt think there was too much of a need for alarms in 1985.....Especially Factory equipped????? "Can't you trip like I do" TheArk@teleweb.net Noah Boehm--------- > From: S and K Bagdon > To: Pete Pappas III ; mr2-digest@mr2.com > Subject: Re: MR2 "what's this 'thingy'..." MK1 > Date: Thursday, March 12, 1998 7:46 PM > > >Betty wrote >''what's this 'thingy....'85 na..." > > > >It sounds like the factory alarm mercury switch, Black rubber coated, > >about 25mm long and 8mm diameter. The '85 OEM alarm brain is mounted > >under the driver > >seat next to the subwoofer. Also, there is a small switch on the lower > >left below the radio/pocket. > >If your car does not have the factory alarm, the hood was likely replaced > >by a previous > >owner/dealer. Did you buy it used? if so ,did they tell you of any > >accidents? > > This is the first *ever* I've heard anyone mention a factory alarm for the > Mk I. Have I missed something? > > Steve B. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:41:33 -0800 From: Byron Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Wheels and Tires According to my scale, bathroom type, stock 93 wheel and tire weight is: front, 33 lbs and rear, 38 lbs. When I upgraded to 17", front weight stayed the same and rear weight went up approx 2 lbs. My wheels are SSR Integral A2 (forged), 7" front and 8" rear. Tires are Dunlop SP8000. Not including magnesium, cast wheels are generally the heaviest and forged / 3 piece wheels are the lightest. Aftermarket wheels have to be designed to handle the heaviest car which uses the bolt pattern and offset for that particular wheel, whereas the stock wheels on the MR2 were designed for the weight of the MR2 so they can be much lighter. Byron Johnson 93 Turbo SF Bay Area ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:28:10 -0800 From: "Gabriel C. Lam" Subject: Re: Cops & Laws (used to be MR2 Symbols) Welcome to california, eh? =) Here's a few thoughts... >this may just be a california law. The cops Mira Mesa (San Diego) pull >over racers for every little thing every Saturday night from 11pm-4am. >Here are some of the things I have been ticketed for: >Car lowered (head lights must be certain number of inches from ground) Bottom of the headlight must be at least 22 inches off the ground. - California VEHICLE CODE SECTION 24400 >After market exhaust (may not be modified to be louder) MAY be modified to be louder provided it does not go over 80db at various speeds 50 feet from the center of the lane of travel given car is manufactured after 1972. California VEHICLE CODE SECTIONS 27151, 27150, 27204, 23130 >Sticker on front window Stickers can be on a 7" square on the lower passenger side corner, 5" on the driver's side California VEHICLE CODE SECTION 26708 >tinted front windows Tint may go down to 9" from the top I believe ( I'm not exactly sure). >clear corner turn signals (must have a yellow bulb) Any turn signal system used to give a signal of intention to turn right or left shall project a flashing WHITE or amber light visible to the front and a flashing red or amber light visible to the rear. California VEHICLE CODE 24953. (a) >K&N filter (150 smog ticket!) K&N has a CARB exempt, anyone want to look it up? >then one for my yellow fog lights because I thought my blues were bad >(they cannot be a certain wattage (35watts in CA) because they are too >bright to on coming traffic, I argued that Lexsus GS300's come stock >with bright yellow fog light that were the same brightness as my PIAAs, >didn't work) > Fog lights can be white to yellow California VEHICLE CODE SECTION 25950 (A2) Any lighted lamp or device upon a motor vehicle other than headlamps, spotlamps, signal lamps, or auxiliary driving lamps, warning lamps which projects a beam of light of an intensity greater than 300 candlepower shall be so directed that no part of the beam will strike the level of the roadway at a distance of more than 75 feet from the vehicle. California VEHICLE CODE SECTION 25951 - I couldn't find a max wattage section on foglamps, but I've heard of this before too. Any ideas? >Oh, also don't tell the cops that you refuse to pop your hood when they >tell you too, or else you face obstruction and/or resisting. Apparently >they have probable cause if you are watching drag races or sitting in a >parking lot with other racers (yes I know this sounds unconstitutional) >guilt by association, the parking lot even had a 24 Ralphs food store >which I said I was shopping at, did not work. Basically the cops in San >Diego are dicks to anyone with a modified car, it won't stop me from >ever putting my car to stock! > I've met good and bad cops, though more bad than good. But living here in Southern California, I completely know what you mean about guilty by association and harassment. It's a fact of life we often have to live with. You know what this reminds me of? You guys read that article on this month's Car & Driver about cops? Hehe, let the truth be known, eh? I guess I try not too judge them too harshly for their blatant acts of hypocrisy. Perhaps many of them are not educated enough to know the difference. Not everyone is lucky enough to be taught correctly. You just have to look at ANY passing lane (left lane) here in California and you'll see gobs of uneducated drivers, ones that think it's their God given right to creep along, clogging up traffic like so much freeway constipation. Anyhow, know the law. It helps sometimes. Even cops occasionally can be swayed by law, though I wouldn't bet on it. gabe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:43:02 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: re: MR2 Legality of look-alike body kits Jason wrote: >So, if this is true....how can the conversion kits for the MR2 be legal??? >The Ferrari conversion for the MR2? And what about the conversion cars for >Cobras, and the VW Bug conversions (kit cars)? Are these all illegal too? > The fact of the matter is is the kit has enough of the unique design points of another car, yes, it IS illegal! If you don't remember, the first so-called Ferrari Daytona (365GTS/4?) that was used on Miami Vice was such a kit car body (and interior) over a Chevy Corvette. The company that made the bodies (I forget their name, but I'm sure SOMEONE on this List knows!) did very well selling (and converting) cars with these kits. I believe the conversion was around $20,000. Ferrari wound up sueing the company and WON. Those kits are no longer made. - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI IMOC # 2NA000004 Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:50:53 -0500 From: CRAZYCUBAN Subject: MR2 Mr2-I'm leaving...and midwest stuff. OK...well, its time for me to unsubscribe for about a week.....I'll see some of you at the midwest meet, and others I'll talk with you when I get back from break. Yes, the time upside down WAS in the mr2, I was NOT having sex upside down in the 2....that was just a way to get you alls attention...well, it worked didnt it??? Im off!!! wave if you see me! Armando Perez ajperez@indiana.edu ICQ# 5285817 IMOC#1NA000011 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:58:10 -0800 From: Curtis Brown Subject: MR2 NW or Seattle meet ????????????? > Is there such a thing happening this weekend ??? > > Curtis > 92 Red MKII ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:00:41 -0800 From: Meg Crocker Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #415 >Betty wrote >''what's this 'thingy....'85 na..." > >It sounds like the factory alarm mercury switch, Black rubber coated, No. It looks kinda champagne colored. Everything does... (I think it's bare metal, actually.) I think I may go back to calling the color "gold." >about 25mm long and 8mm diameter. That's it. >The '85 OEM alarm brain is mounted under the driver seat Not even. >next to the subwoofer. What subwoofer? > Also, there is a small switch on the lower left below the radio/pocket. Nope, I've got a blank there. >If your car does not have the factory alarm, the hood was likely replaced >by a previous owner/dealer. Yep. :( RF fender too, then (no pinstripes). >Did you buy it used? if so, did they tell you of any >accidents? Yes. No. But to the guy's credit, I don't think he had it for long. After having to replace engine, clutch, starter, relays, windshield, muffler, ... :) I think he got tired of sinking money into the poor thing real quick. (Dunno why he had so many problems - it's done fine by me.) Meg '85 glittery tan mr2 PS: But the valance doesn't look replaced - it's in kinda crummy shape. And there's evidence (bent bumper, crunched fender) of a minor crunch on the other front corner... How much does it cost to replace a fender? 'Cause I'm not sure this piece can be fixed. PPS: And what rear speakers? Where do they go? (Rear pillars?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:21:01 From: Keith Jarett Subject: MR2 MkI factory alarm >This is the first *ever* I've heard anyone mention a factory alarm for the >Mk I. Have I missed something? Yup. The "factory" alarm was actually a dealer-installed unit made by Zemco, which went defunct a few years later. I installed it myself some months after buying my '87. Like all such units, a real PITA to install. It was triggered by the ignition switch, and lacked a remote control. Hood opening sensing was by mercury switches, which were found to be unreliable and replaced by pin switches for '87 and later. Given the primitive features and high price, it's a wonder anyone bought the unit. The only customers were folks like me who did not research it. Keith Jarett keith@nsx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:31:28 -0500 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: MR2 Haltech E6 Daucott wrote: > Does anyone know if $1100 for a used Haltech E6 is a good price? Does > anyone > know if the E6a is much better for $1650? Thanks. > > Dave A. > daucott@aol.com Hello Dave, Does the E6 have all the sensors etc? I know it will come with the wire loom, but if the sensors are not attatched then you will spend a bunch on them. The E6-A is easier to program and has more features. I assume the E6-A price includes all sensors. My advice: if the price for the E6 includes all sensors, buy it, if not go for the E6-A. You will never meed another engine management system. - -- Regards, Stephen Gunter, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing and the Honda Performance WebRing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:44:17 -0500 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: MR2 Ken Sweet, you out there? Sorry for the group post. E-mail me please, you left no e-mail address on the note you sent me. Thanks! Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:48:26 -0500 From: "David E. Conrad" Subject: Re: MR2 insurance during storage? At 3/12/98 05:30 PM -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone on the list keep their MR2 insured when they store it for the >winter?  I'm just wondering.  I have stored my car during the past 3 winter >with the insurance activated for theft and fire only.  Nothing has ever >happened to it (partially b/c its in a family members garage), so I'm >considering taking the insurance off for next season. > >What do you folks think? > > >Jason >89SC >Jason > Jason, Please leave the insurance on your car. I have stored my car during the past 13 years and, like you I canceled most coverages. But I was always careful to maintain comprehensive insurance for just in case. My car was stored in my father's garage during the winter of 1995. Sometime just before Christmas some kids broke into the garage and attempted to steal the radios from the cars. Very minor damage to the Fiero, about $30 for a new dash face plate. The doors on the Fiero were unlocked. Unfortunately the doors on the MR2 were locked. Well, these infinitely intelligent individuals ( III for short ) decided that they would simply break through the sun roof. Most of you, I'm sure, are aware that a sunroof is made to take the unlikely event of a roll over or other severe damage to the roof without being compromised. To make what could be a long story short, these III used screwdrivers, pieces of rebar and a post hole digger to beat the roof in trying to get the sunroof open. The damage amounted to about $3,400. Needless to say, I was extremely happy that insurance covered it. I am also happy that my insurance man is a CAR GUY! He made sure that I was happy with the fix. One estimate that I had was from a fellow that wanted to fill all the damage with putty. His estimate was much lower, but I asked my insurance man to consider the condition that I always kept my car and he agreed willingly to completely replace the roof and damaged interior parts with brand new Toyota parts. Will I ever drop all insurance on my 2. NO WAY!!! Garage kept or not, for me, the price of comprehensive insurance is a small one to pay. David E. Conrad   IMOC# 1NA000002 conradd@clover.net '85 Super Red, 24,000 Smiling Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 21:53:22 EST From: Conti64542 Subject: MR2 Re: mr2 changing the timing belt In a message dated 98-03-12 19:59:43 EST, you write: > The mr2 is non-interference. That means that even if the belt breaks, > it won't damage the engine. Granted, you won't be able to drive the car but > there won't be any damage to the engine. > So, as many have stated before, I don't think you are taking that big of a > risk if you wait until 70k to do it. I don't plan on touching mine until > then. At worst, the thing breaks, you have to get the car towed and pay for > the price of a new timing belt. Not quite. Belts tend to break under load: when starting the car, for example, or accellerating from a standstill. You may be pulling out of a parking space in front of traffic, or crossing on- coming traffic at an intersection when it breaks. No damage to the engine, maybe, but major damage to the body (or to your body). Yes, the cost is high. Yes, you can *probably* go as many as 100K miles. But, if you keep the car for any period of time, you are going to have to do the job anyway. It is a lot easier to schedule the work around your schedule rather than schedule around the work. And if it does break at an "inconvenient" time, you might not live long enough to kick yourself for not having done it. This is the *worst* thing that can happen. - -Renni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:33:59 -0800 From: Gavin Subject: MR2 Stereo specs - replacing door speaker sizes and tweeters in a MkII Jugo, The door speakers in a '92 are 5 1/4", but some shallow 6" will fit, but you must drill holes for the screws. The tweeters in a '92 leave a lot to be desired in my opinion. To see for yourself, simply pry the *top* loose first, then lift the small plastic tweeter covering up. Prying the bottom loose first will break the tabs. I just recently found a great deal on some 20 watt mylar dome tweeters that ought to fit in their place, but haven't had time to do anything with these tweeters. The stock tweeters in my old '92 NA were 1, yes 1, watt, as printed on their backs as '1W'. Cheers, Gavin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:44:40 -0000 From: "Kevin D. McLeaster" Subject: Re: MR2 Frozen parkingbrake The parking brake on my 91 Turbo has been frozen several times since the cold snap here in Indiana on Monday. I had to grab the cable at the right rear brake caliper to get it unstuck. When I got home I pulled the wheels ( to put the snows back on) and scrubbed and cleaned the E-brake linkages with WD-40. That helped, but they still froze again on the way to work on Wednesday. The handle wouldn't even come up to set the brake. It started working again this evening. Kevin D. McLeaster WB9HMI '91 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:01:55 -0500 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: MR2 where to get Ferodo Brakes? John Shepardson wrote: > Can anyone tell me > > I'm interested either in a mail order house, or a shop > in the San Francisco Bay area. > > While we're at it, can anyone tell me if they know of > a better price for stock rotors than my local Toyota > dealer (Front $92.73 Rear $68.94). > > Thanks > John "Warped" Shepardson I'm sure some of the guys using them in the states (Mike? Bill?) can tell you where they get them. Pegasus? OTOH, you "can" get them (as well as rotors for MUCH less) from my local source, fellow MR2 enthusiast, Jack Cohen jayc@Total.net from Europarts (514-384-7710). Even though it's from here in Canada it could well end up costing less from him. Remember...if used for "track" immediately after installation, they must be bedded in properly by doing a series of maybe 10 very rapid stops from about 50mph to 10mph in rapid succession. They'll be smoking and may have even faded a bit. That's normal. Immediately park the car (DO NOT APPLY the parking brake!!!) and let them cure at least overnite (preferably 24hrs.) I actually repeat this procedure the next day (call me paranoid) just in case... Of course, if used for "street", you shouldn't need to go through this...just drive moderately for the first couple hundred miles (Hwy doesn't count...obviously). Warning...the Ferodos are a bit dustier than regular pads, but nowhere near as bad all-out carbon pads. Remember you want the "FDB" prefix, not "MDB" in front of the part number... Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada 2 x Mk1 SC (IMOC #1SC000004 & 1SC000005) ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #423