Toyota MR2 Message Board - View Single Post - HID lighting FAQ *sticky?* Maybe create new lighting forum?

Kurdain · 07-20-2007, 05:43 AM

I borrowed content, links and sources from all over the web.
I can post references if necessary, a lot borrowed from Subaru forum.

HID FAQ and answers:

1. Does higher K (color) mean it’s brighter?

No!
The Kelvin scale is a measure of color temperature i.e. color of the light, not intensity or amount of light. HID setups that produce maximum light output are around 4100-4300K color temperature , and the higher you go, the less light output. A 10000-12000K HID kit will most likely be dimmer than your stock halogen lights. OEM HID's are 4100-4300K kits and will have the color of all the HID lights you see on cars that come equipped with them (like most BMWs, Mercedes-Benz', and other high end/luxury vehicles). The color is very white, while light output becomes progressively bluer as color temperature rises; 6000K is white/blue, 8000K is very blue, and above that you go towards purple. Also the higher the color range of the light the more it bleeds or glares. Amplify this effect by installing high color bulbs into NON-HID housings and the glare can become very bad.

Good read with pictures on color, glare and beam patterns: http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html
What is color temperature: http://www.hid-online.com/hidonline/...colourtemp.htm
More on that: http://www.hidkits.com/tab_faqs_color.htm
General HID info (scroll to bottom for stuff on brightness): http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-general.htm

2. What HID kit should I buy, what is the difference in quality?

Aftermarket HID’s are sold by a large number of companies, although less so recently because of changing DOT/NHTSA regulations. However, to ensure the highest quality, make sure you buy HID that is made by an OEM HID manufacturer. OEM HID kits are the same products fitted to many vehicles (usually luxury) by manufacturers before they are sold as new vehicles. See this link: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/car-oem-hid.htm. Notice that almost all ballasts and bulbs used by car manufacturers are Bosch, Osram, Philips, or Hella. Bosch and Osram are not as readily available for retail, but Philips and Hella are. Kits that are not made by these companies are most likely not of the highest quality, although some aftermarket manufacturers such as Brightstar and McCullogh have been recognized as high quality products as well. Philips/Hella kits are generally considered the best.

3. Can I put HID into my stock halogen reflector lighting assembly?

Yes. But it is strongly recommended that you do not. Although it may not seem so, directing the light produced by a headlight bulb to the right places requires a good deal of precision. When you place a HID bulb into an NON-HID housing; the reflector assembly can not properly focus the beam pattern. Replacing those bulbs with HID bulbs that produce 2.5 to 3 times the light yields a terrible and glaring beam pattern. You will have light going all over the place, most importantly into the eyes of drivers of oncoming vehicles. Even if you can tolerate such a beam pattern, your lights would be a safety hazard on the road. Many people try to solve this problem by lowering their lights. However, to reduce glare to acceptable levels, you would have to lower HID lights in halogen reflectors so much that you would not have much of a useable light increase over your stock setup, thus defeating the purpose of upgrading to HID's in the first place. The effect is even worse the higher up the color range you go.

The thread is closed but if the moderators could quote or reference post #13 of:http://www./showthread.php?t=2853&highlight=NHTSA (needs updating)
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-kits.htm
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-reflectors.htm

4.
The next best approach to getting HID's into our cars is by using an existing OEM quality manufacturer. However since our cars never came with HID's as OEM we must rely on the few manufacturers out there producing DOT approved kits and lamp suppliers. (I only know of Revision 6 and Hella please add others)
In the end it doesn't really matter what route you take as long as the HID’s you are using are indeed a designed and DOT approved system.

Manufacturers:
http://www.revision6.com/forms/Product.aspx?ID=298
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/90mm_modules.asp

There are other DIY kits on the board as well.

5. Cost vs. Performance
Your quality OEM grade HID's are going to run you a pretty penny, it is not uncommon to pay $1000 for a pair of lights, more if you need to custom mount them or want more than 1 set. However few can argue the resulting performance benefit in a quality set of HID's. For roughly 10x the cost of a halogen bulb you will get 2.5x the light output, less power draw (35w vs. 55w) and superior longevity, roughly 7x-8x longer life over a halogen bulb and 5x+ longer life over most cheap HID units. If you take cost of ownership over the life of the unit, then quality HID's end up being only slightly more, however the large upfront costs can seem intimidating.

6. Conclusion
As you can probably see that combining an improperly designed system with a high color temperature is a recipe for glare, poor performance and unsafe conditions. What color do most 'conversion' kits push or advertise? 6000K+ usually, hopefully you can draw your own conclusions from here.

I hope this helps.

07-20-2007, 05:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Kurdain Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 685 Thanks: 39 Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	*HID lighting FAQ sticky?* Maybe create new lighting forum? I borrowed content, links and sources from all over the web. I can post references if necessary, a lot borrowed from Subaru forum. HID FAQ and answers: 1. Does higher K (color) mean it’s brighter? No! The Kelvin scale is a measure of color temperature i.e. color of the light, not intensity or amount of light. HID setups that produce maximum light output are around 4100-4300K color temperature , and the higher you go, the less light output. A 10000-12000K HID kit will most likely be dimmer than your stock halogen lights. OEM HID's are 4100-4300K kits and will have the color of all the HID lights you see on cars that come equipped with them (like most BMWs, Mercedes-Benz', and other high end/luxury vehicles). The color is very white, while light output becomes progressively bluer as color temperature rises; 6000K is white/blue, 8000K is very blue, and above that you go towards purple. Also the higher the color range of the light the more it bleeds or glares. Amplify this effect by installing high color bulbs into NON-HID housings and the glare can become very bad. Good read with pictures on color, glare and beam patterns: http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html What is color temperature: http://www.hid-online.com/hidonline/...colourtemp.htm More on that: http://www.hidkits.com/tab_faqs_color.htm General HID info (scroll to bottom for stuff on brightness): http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-general.htm 2. What HID kit should I buy, what is the difference in quality? Aftermarket HID’s are sold by a large number of companies, although less so recently because of changing DOT/NHTSA regulations. However, to ensure the highest quality, make sure you buy HID that is made by an OEM HID manufacturer. OEM HID kits are the same products fitted to many vehicles (usually luxury) by manufacturers before they are sold as new vehicles. See this link: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/car-oem-hid.htm. Notice that almost all ballasts and bulbs used by car manufacturers are Bosch, Osram, Philips, or Hella. Bosch and Osram are not as readily available for retail, but Philips and Hella are. Kits that are not made by these companies are most likely not of the highest quality, although some aftermarket manufacturers such as Brightstar and McCullogh have been recognized as high quality products as well. Philips/Hella kits are generally considered the best. 3. Can I put HID into my stock halogen reflector lighting assembly? Yes. But it is strongly recommended that you do not**. Although it may not seem so, directing the light produced by a headlight bulb to the right places requires a good deal of precision. When you place a HID bulb into an NON-HID housing; the reflector assembly can not properly focus the beam pattern. Replacing those bulbs with HID bulbs that produce 2.5 to 3 times the light yields a terrible and glaring beam pattern. You will have light going all over the place, most importantly into the eyes of drivers of oncoming vehicles. Even if you can tolerate such a beam pattern, your lights would be a safety hazard on the road. Many people try to solve this problem by lowering their lights. However, to reduce glare to acceptable levels, you would have to lower HID lights in halogen reflectors so much that you would not have much of a useable light increase over your stock setup, thus defeating the purpose of upgrading to HID's in the first place. The effect is even worse the higher up the color range you go. The thread is closed but if the moderators could quote or reference post #13 of:http://www./showthread.php?t=2853&highlight=NHTSA (needs updating) http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-kits.htm http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-reflectors.htm 4. The next best approach to getting HID's into our cars is by using an existing OEM quality manufacturer. However since our cars never came with HID's as OEM we must rely on the few manufacturers out there producing DOT approved kits and lamp suppliers. (I only know of Revision 6 and Hella please add others) In the end it doesn't really matter what route you take as long as the HID’s you are using are indeed a designed and DOT approved system. Manufacturers: http://www.revision6.com/forms/Product.aspx?ID=298 http://www.rallylights.com/hella/90mm_modules.asp There are other DIY kits on the board as well. 5. Cost vs. Performance Your quality OEM grade HID's are going to run you a pretty penny, it is not uncommon to pay $1000 for a pair of lights, more if you need to custom mount them or want more than 1 set. However few can argue the resulting performance benefit in a quality set of HID's. For roughly 10x the cost of a halogen bulb you will get 2.5x the light output, less power draw (35w vs. 55w) and superior longevity, roughly 7x-8x longer life over a halogen bulb and 5x+ longer life over most cheap HID units. If you take cost of ownership over the life of the unit, then quality HID's end up being only slightly more, however the large upfront costs can seem intimidating. 6. Conclusion As you can probably see that combining an improperly designed system with a high color temperature is a recipe for glare, poor performance and unsafe conditions. What color do most 'conversion' kits push or advertise? 6000K+ usually, hopefully you can draw your own conclusions from here. I hope this helps.