These things just get cheaper and cheaper

mr220v · 03-14-2007, 11:07 AM

It just seems like you can pick these things up for less than a comparable condition 16v at this point.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOT...91651008QQrdZ1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-4...92382737QQrdZ1

I know that the 4agze guys will say that you won't make as much power NA vs FI, which is true, but I know you can't pick up a 4agze this cheap. Hell, you can't get a 4age 16v this cheap, at least not in really good condition.

canadam · 03-14-2007, 11:14 AM

I think that will be the case. As time goes on, more 20V cars are coming off the road and being parted out, and 16V's are coming harder and harder to find.

I wouldn't mind seeing a write-up on the choices you have when looking at 20Vs, I don't really know anything about them.

mr220v · 03-14-2007, 11:25 AM

The other part of this is that the 20v is an orphan anywhere in the world but Japan. Even though the swap gets more and more popular, at least in the mr2 community, there are relatively few people willing to do a swap in the first place. General mechanics will never come looking for a 20v as a replacement motor.

There will always be a huge surplus of these motors available. The nice thing is that some dealers are carrying parts.

mr220v · 03-14-2007, 11:39 AM

You basically have two choices. Blacktop or Silvertop.

The silvertop is the earlier of the two. Aside from pistons, it basically has the same rotating assembly as the highcomp 4age. There is a slight variation in the intake runners from the early silvertops to the later silvertops accompanied by a slightly retuned ecu. All silvertop ecu's seem to be conservatively tuned and run an afm. Often times I like to use the blacktop ecu with the silvertop for its more aggressive top end tune.

The blacktop ran from 1995+. It ran 11:1 compression vs the 10.5:1 that the silvertop ran. The combustion chamber was also revised. This is the one thing that the silvertop had that is thought to be superior over the blacktop. Aside from this, the blacktop had larger itbs, intake ports, and exhaust ports. It also featured a much lightened rotating assembly. It had a lighter flywheel and rods. Even the cams seemed to be worked over to reduce weight.

The way prices are now, I'd go with a blacktop over a silvertop unless I couldn't find a blacktop, or found a killer deal on a nice silvertop (sub $300). With either one, I would run the blacktop ecu.

Of the swaps i've worked on, it is very possible to do this swap for under $1000.

canadam · 03-14-2007, 11:47 AM

Thanks ! Locally, there's an 89 NA in pretty good shape that I was considering picking up for a daily driver. It needs headwork, this would be a good option.

toyotaspeed90 · 03-14-2007, 02:54 PM

I would say the 16V is just as abundant.... but there are way more people doing swaps with them (general mechanics, ae86 guys, TE guys, mr2's that blow motors, corolla guys, etc...)... and there are also guys like me who are hording the motors (i'm working on pulling my 3rd spare 16V... should be out of the car by the weekend)....

mr220v · 03-14-2007, 03:09 PM

Thats the thing, putting a 16v back in is not a swap. There is no extra wiring difficulty or any other special stuff that needs to be done. The new one goes in the same way the old one came out. That extra stuff will keep most people from even thinking about going 20v and in turn keep demand low.

Just by shear numbers, there are going to be more 16v's out there, but the majority will have a ton of miles and/or need to be rebuilt to be useable. The 20v will be in better condition on average and can be dropped in a car with very little freshening up.

toyotaspeed90 · 03-14-2007, 09:57 PM

except that ae86 sr5's, te's, and most FWD corolla's don't come with a 4age.... so it is an actual swap..... more and more i'm seeing people doing these swaps

and i've done MS on both 16V and 20V's and find that they are both as simple/difficult (whichever way you see it).... and i personally don't think that a 20V is worth the money *unless* you get a very good deal....

mr220v · 03-14-2007, 10:06 PM

Hmmm... I find the 20v to be a very tangible increase over the 16v's. Especially on the low end, but across the board really. Strong from 1500rpms to 8000rpms, not just a 3000rpm band like the 16v.

What do you consider a good deal for a 20v swap completed? I've had silvertop swaps come out under $1000 and blacktop swaps under $1300.

I've also heard of swaps coming out over $2000. That would not be worth it.

mr220v · 03-14-2007, 10:40 PM

You're right though. I'd forgotten that taking an sr5 and bringing it to gts spec is pretty popular.

LordNikon · 12-08-2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr220v

I've had silvertop swaps come out under $1000 and blacktop swaps under $1300.

Your talking just the motor swap not the tranny too right? I saw a black top with 6sp and ecu on ebay for $1795+ shipping. Is that a good deal? Where can I get a black or silver for a swap for the prices your quoteing? If I could get one in the price range your talking about I think I could talk the wife into letteing me do the swap alot sooner.

mr220v · 12-08-2007, 12:13 PM

You'll pay a big premium for a 6speed. If you just went with a 5speed, you could get the price way down on the swap.

Here is a good deal I found on ebay:

eBay Motors: JDM Toyota Levin AE111 Corolla 4A-GE A/T Engine Set (item 120193253842 end time Dec-11-07 19:00:00 PST)

You'd still need to get a transmission since this one is automatic. They are located in the SE, so shipping would be reasonable.

You'll also want to check your local importers. Sometimes they don't even know what this motor is and just want to get rid of them. Locally, in most areas, not too many people come looking for these motors.

03-14-2007, 11:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	These things just get cheaper and cheaper It just seems like you can pick these things up for less than a comparable condition 16v at this point. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOT...91651008QQrdZ1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-4...92382737QQrdZ1 I know that the 4agze guys will say that you won't make as much power NA vs FI, which is true, but I know you can't pick up a 4agze this cheap. Hell, you can't get a 4age 16v this cheap, at least not in really good condition.

03-14-2007, 11:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
canadam MidshipExpress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Posts: 9,549 Thanks: 117 Thanked 129 Times in 112 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (29/100% )	I think that will be the case. As time goes on, more 20V cars are coming off the road and being parted out, and 16V's are coming harder and harder to find. I wouldn't mind seeing a write-up on the choices you have when looking at 20Vs, I don't really know anything about them. __________________ WTB ASAP: Black Glove Box Surround - Not the box itself, but the dash plastics it sits in 3SGTE Upper Timing Belt Cover Driver's side seatback - must have bolster and lumbar adjustments, cover condition does not matter - will trade non-adjustable. Genuine Tom's Sides and Rear - replica kits not considered Frunk Plastics - no cracks Mechanical Gauge Cluster - KP/H preferred, but not required. Engine Bay X Brace

03-14-2007, 10:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Hmmm... I find the 20v to be a very tangible increase over the 16v's. Especially on the low end, but across the board really. Strong from 1500rpms to 8000rpms, not just a 3000rpm band like the 16v. What do you consider a good deal for a 20v swap completed? I've had silvertop swaps come out under $1000 and blacktop swaps under $1300. I've also heard of swaps coming out over $2000. That would not be worth it. Last edited by mr220v; 03-14-2007 at 10:32 PM.

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03-14-2007, 11:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	The other part of this is that the 20v is an orphan anywhere in the world but Japan. Even though the swap gets more and more popular, at least in the mr2 community, there are relatively few people willing to do a swap in the first place. General mechanics will never come looking for a 20v as a replacement motor. There will always be a huge surplus of these motors available. The nice thing is that some dealers are carrying parts.

03-14-2007, 11:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	You basically have two choices. Blacktop or Silvertop. The silvertop is the earlier of the two. Aside from pistons, it basically has the same rotating assembly as the highcomp 4age. There is a slight variation in the intake runners from the early silvertops to the later silvertops accompanied by a slightly retuned ecu. All silvertop ecu's seem to be conservatively tuned and run an afm. Often times I like to use the blacktop ecu with the silvertop for its more aggressive top end tune. The blacktop ran from 1995+. It ran 11:1 compression vs the 10.5:1 that the silvertop ran. The combustion chamber was also revised. This is the one thing that the silvertop had that is thought to be superior over the blacktop. Aside from this, the blacktop had larger itbs, intake ports, and exhaust ports. It also featured a much lightened rotating assembly. It had a lighter flywheel and rods. Even the cams seemed to be worked over to reduce weight. The way prices are now, I'd go with a blacktop over a silvertop unless I couldn't find a blacktop, or found a killer deal on a nice silvertop (sub $300). With either one, I would run the blacktop ecu. Of the swaps i've worked on, it is very possible to do this swap for under $1000.

03-14-2007, 11:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
canadam MidshipExpress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Posts: 9,549 Thanks: 117 Thanked 129 Times in 112 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (29/100% )	Thanks ! Locally, there's an 89 NA in pretty good shape that I was considering picking up for a daily driver. It needs headwork, this would be a good option.

03-14-2007, 02:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
toyotaspeed90 No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 422 Thanks: 0 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I would say the 16V is just as abundant.... but there are way more people doing swaps with them (general mechanics, ae86 guys, TE guys, mr2's that blow motors, corolla guys, etc...)... and there are also guys like me who are hording the motors (i'm working on pulling my 3rd spare 16V... should be out of the car by the weekend)....

03-14-2007, 03:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Thats the thing, putting a 16v back in is not a swap. There is no extra wiring difficulty or any other special stuff that needs to be done. The new one goes in the same way the old one came out. That extra stuff will keep most people from even thinking about going 20v and in turn keep demand low. Just by shear numbers, there are going to be more 16v's out there, but the majority will have a ton of miles and/or need to be rebuilt to be useable. The 20v will be in better condition on average and can be dropped in a car with very little freshening up.

03-14-2007, 09:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
toyotaspeed90 No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 422 Thanks: 0 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	except that ae86 sr5's, te's, and most FWD corolla's don't come with a 4age.... so it is an actual swap..... more and more i'm seeing people doing these swaps and i've done MS on both 16V and 20V's and find that they are both as simple/difficult (whichever way you see it).... and i personally don't think that a 20V is worth the money unless you get a very good deal....

03-14-2007, 10:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	You're right though. I'd forgotten that taking an sr5 and bringing it to gts spec is pretty popular.

12-08-2007, 12:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	You'll pay a big premium for a 6speed. If you just went with a 5speed, you could get the price way down on the swap. Here is a good deal I found on ebay: eBay Motors: JDM Toyota Levin AE111 Corolla 4A-GE A/T Engine Set (item 120193253842 end time Dec-11-07 19:00:00 PST) You'd still need to get a transmission since this one is automatic. They are located in the SE, so shipping would be reasonable. You'll also want to check your local importers. Sometimes they don't even know what this motor is and just want to get rid of them. Locally, in most areas, not too many people come looking for these motors.