Blacktop on the way...

[delgato]

Well guys, I did it and ordered a Blacktop. No transmission. It should mate right up to mt C51 (has starter ears on both sides?)

This means the process will start as soon as it warms a bit (10deg F today...I am thinking 40F).

I humbly ask for any and all assistance. I promise to (finish) reading every possible post made up to this point on 20v installs.

I have a mix apprehension and excitment.

Thanks in advance.
I am really looking forward to this.

edit: C52 sorry.

[mr220v]

The best time to work on your car is when it's 10 degrees outside. Well, that might be a little tough. I tolerate 20's pretty well. It's better than 90's in some ways.

This is a pretty easy swap with wiring out of the way. A few more things to do than installing a replacement 16v.

[delgato]

Originally Posted by mr220v

The best time to work on your car is when it's 10 degrees outside. Well, that might be a little tough. I tolerate 20's pretty well. It's better than 90's in some ways.

This is a pretty easy swap with wiring out of the way. A few more things to do than installing a replacement 16v.

You gave me some advice recently on mr2oc about whats involved. I hope / plan on a wire harness from you. As well I am certain the fuel line, maybe hoses. Once I start to dig into it etc. I will contact you about it.

While I have your ear... Whats involved in doing Velocity Stacks on a BT. I get the impression its easy w/ a BT?

[kazin1111]

With a bt velocity stacks are easy. you do have to move some vacuum hoses around. however if you get the side to side kit you can order one specifically for your stacks and it will come with pictures. Thats how I did it and it took about 30 min total. it also helps prevent issues with the alternator if you get the stacks. The hoses they send you are of much higher quality than the standard ones you would pick up at autozone or toyota and you can even get them in different colors. I ran a adapter for my fuel line and its not holding correctly so I would recommend the fuel line as well. also one of the things I really regret not doing is getting a better clutch and a lighter flywheel. my last 3 cars had upgraded clutches and flywheels and I can really tell the difference as far as it feels when I shift. (not to mention acceleration)

If you go through my posts, i've pretty much had every problem under the sun with my 20v swap. (including having to order a 2nd motor) I started with no real experience and managed to get it in. best of luck.

I would work in 90 degree weather any day over 10. Ever bleed when its freezing out?

[delgato]

Originally Posted by kazin1111

With a bt velocity stacks are easy. you do have to move some vacuum hoses around. however if you get the side to side kit you can order one specifically for your stacks and it will come with pictures. Thats how I did it and it took about 30 min total. it also helps prevent issues with the alternator if you get the stacks. The hoses they send you are of much higher quality than the standard ones you would pick up at autozone or toyota and you can even get them in different colors. I ran a adapter for my fuel line and its not holding correctly so I would recommend the fuel line as well. also one of the things I really regret not doing is getting a better clutch and a lighter flywheel. my last 3 cars had upgraded clutches and flywheels and I can really tell the difference as far as it feels when I shift. (not to mention acceleration)

If you go through my posts, i've pretty much had every problem under the sun with my 20v swap. (including having to order a 2nd motor) I started with no real experience and managed to get it in. best of luck.

I would work in 90 degree weather any day over 10. Ever bleed when its freezing out?

Thanks Kazin1111, What is a side to side kit? where specifically can I get one.
I will have to look up the posts of your troubles.
I am curious, did you feel you should have upgraded the BT flywheel, they are already light?

[kazin1111]

Originally Posted by delgato

Thanks Kazin1111, What is a side to side kit? where specifically can I get one.
I will have to look up the posts of your troubles.
I am curious, did you feel you should have upgraded the BT flywheel, they are already light?

side2side is a company ran by kamelion (spell check) and I think mr220v has his hands in it somehow as well. (I could totally be wrong about this) they have advertisements on the forum or you can go straight to the site Side 2 Side Racing Inc. they have complete mr2 20v kits. i have ordered 2 vaccum hose kits from them and they both came with downloadable exact instructions. each hose had its own number and each pic had the numbers to match where the hoses belong. I ordered a kit that specifically was for a st with velocity stacks. I now have a kit comming that is specific for bt with velocity stacks. (and no hanger) the hoses are much thicker and stronger than the stock ones, and come in different colors. I was very impressed with it and plan on ordering a fuel hose from them, as well as a coolant kit. (if I don't sell my car) now.

as far as the clutch and flywheel go. I very much do regret not replacing them with a lighter model. I'm new to this mr2 thing, and have never dealt with a stock clutch. I've had 5 hondas, and a miata. all with at least a stage 2 flywheel clutch kit. The stock one just doesn't grip hard enough. and it is very difficult to keep the rpms above 5k without having to rev it up way too high. I did purchase a short throw shifter kit from twosrus.com and it made a pretty big difference on shifting, but every time I rev it or step on the clutch i'm reminded of how it COULD feel.

Save yourself the trouble of having to play with the vacuum hoses. save yourself the time of having to lengthen your fuel line. ( I just figured out mine leaks when driving which is why my gas mileage is crappy) save yourself the trouble of having to fab a hose kit. Mine works, but it rubs against the exhaust manifold when I turn. I also went with a stainless steel braided cable for my tranny. made a big difference on the pressure I feel when I step on the clutch. get the polyurethane mount inserts if you can. the real ones on twosrus or on ebay ( i went with ebay) motor doesn't slip so much when I exit a turn. if there is anything else I can think of I'll let you know.

[delgato]

Your the man. Thanks again. I see you have run through all this stuff before. I am just about to start. Today I received my 20v Blacktop. Everything looks great so far.
Oil is clean the motor looks cared for. The starter was missing. So I need a starter now as well as a down pipe (I had asked the guy at JEI to send along a DP if he had one, I would mod it. But - no luck. It did come with an ecu and ignition.

I realized today, I need to budget for things I cant predict, like a starter motor.
why do you recommend the hoses? I was thinking of doing my own wires, but have pretty much decided to let mr220v do it. So I am thinking I can handle the hose routing. $150 is pretty steep, but I would like to see pics of these hoses before I buy.

Originally Posted by kazin1111

side2side is a company ran by kamelion (spell check) and I think mr220v has his hands in it somehow as well. (I could totally be wrong about this) they have advertisements on the forum or you can go straight to the site Side 2 Side Racing Inc. they have complete mr2 20v kits. i have ordered 2 vaccum hose kits from them and they both came with downloadable exact instructions. each hose had its own number and each pic had the numbers to match where the hoses belong. I ordered a kit that specifically was for a st with velocity stacks. I now have a kit comming that is specific for bt with velocity stacks. (and no hanger) the hoses are much thicker and stronger than the stock ones, and come in different colors. I was very impressed with it and plan on ordering a fuel hose from them, as well as a coolant kit. (if I don't sell my car) now.

as far as the clutch and flywheel go. I very much do regret not replacing them with a lighter model. I'm new to this mr2 thing, and have never dealt with a stock clutch. I've had 5 hondas, and a miata. all with at least a stage 2 flywheel clutch kit. The stock one just doesn't grip hard enough. and it is very difficult to keep the rpms above 5k without having to rev it up way too high. I did purchase a short throw shifter kit from twosrus.com and it made a pretty big difference on shifting, but every time I rev it or step on the clutch i'm reminded of how it COULD feel.

Save yourself the trouble of having to play with the vacuum hoses. save yourself the time of having to lengthen your fuel line. ( I just figured out mine leaks when driving which is why my gas mileage is crappy) save yourself the trouble of having to fab a hose kit. Mine works, but it rubs against the exhaust manifold when I turn. I also went with a stainless steel braided cable for my tranny. made a big difference on the pressure I feel when I step on the clutch. get the polyurethane mount inserts if you can. the real ones on twosrus or on ebay ( i went with ebay) motor doesn't slip so much when I exit a turn. if there is anything else I can think of I'll let you know.

[kazin1111]

Originally Posted by delgato

Your the man. Thanks again. I see you have run through all this stuff before. I am just about to start. Today I received my 20v Blacktop. Everything looks great so far.
Oil is clean the motor looks cared for. The starter was missing. So I need a starter now as well as a down pipe (I had asked the guy at JEI to send along a DP if he had one, I would mod it. But - no luck. It did come with an ecu and ignition.

I realized today, I need to budget for things I cant predict, like a starter motor.
why do you recommend the hoses? I was thinking of doing my own wires, but have pretty much decided to let mr220v do it. So I am thinking I can handle the hose routing. $150 is pretty steep, but I would like to see pics of these hoses before I buy.

the air hoses
Because when you attach velocity stacks or remove the hanger you have to reroute all of the hoses. The only reason Why I honestly bought it was because I could not for the life of me figure out how to route them. I posted several pictures, and wasted almost 2 weeks. when my air hose kit came In I had it done that night.

The fuel hose would be if you are not able to extend your hose so that it will reach the motor. Like I said, mine leaks when I drive. Im gonna order one because apparently I suck so much I can't fab a fuel line.

coolant kit. I did not get this but whenever I have to fill the coolant I have to use a funnel because of how awkward the valve sits. also my hose rubs against my exhaust manifold.

Downpipe
as far as the downpipe goes sidetoside sells an adapter plate to match it up with your stock exhaust. My silvertop came with the DP so I have no experience on how this works. if you feel you need the special downpipe talk to chrisclose he knows someone on the board that makes it.

Starter
My blacktop did not come with a starter but my silvertop did. I believe chrisclose ran into the same situation you have and contacted the company he got his motor from. they shipped him a starter for his. the 20v motor is really picky about what starter you can use. the 16v is out of the question but there may be another that works. talk to mr220v

things you are probably forgetting.
external coil for the distributor.- dont forget you need that 5th coil.
map sensor- my bt was missing the map. good thing I grabbed one for my st.
irridium spark plugs
spark plug wire clips- make sure you have all your clips, I had to use double sidded tape to hold my wires in.
speedometer parts. if you are using the bt transmission you need to go to the dealer and order the internal speedometer parts from the original transmission for the mr2. then you pull out the one in the newer transmission and you replace it with the ones from toyota.


as far as odd things I needed to do the swap. If you have a garage that has a engine hoist in it. chances are the only thing you might be missing is a tool to take off the axel nuts.

[delgato]

Good info thanks for the heads up.
Whats chapin' me right now is the lack of the starter. The ad said complete motor minus tranny. Well I called and he is sticking with the idea a starter goes with a tranny. (I am thinking if I bought a tranny alone, there would no starter and the story would be that it goes with the motor) either way he said he'd look around.
I may have to hold up on the velocity stack setup until I get all the basic done (starter, DP) I am hoping the DP is no problem. I plan on buying from te51levin(?)
You had to buy a second motor? You are selling your car right? Why?

Originally Posted by kazin1111

the air hoses
Because when you attach velocity stacks or remove the hanger you have to reroute all of the hoses. The only reason Why I honestly bought it was because I could not for the life of me figure out how to route them. I posted several pictures, and wasted almost 2 weeks. when my air hose kit came In I had it done that night.

The fuel hose would be if you are not able to extend your hose so that it will reach the motor. Like I said, mine leaks when I drive. Im gonna order one because apparently I suck so much I can't fab a fuel line.

coolant kit. I did not get this but whenever I have to fill the coolant I have to use a funnel because of how awkward the valve sits. also my hose rubs against my exhaust manifold.

Downpipe
as far as the downpipe goes sidetoside sells an adapter plate to match it up with your stock exhaust. My silvertop came with the DP so I have no experience on how this works. if you feel you need the special downpipe talk to chrisclose he knows someone on the board that makes it.

Starter
My blacktop did not come with a starter but my silvertop did. I believe chrisclose ran into the same situation you have and contacted the company he got his motor from. they shipped him a starter for his. the 20v motor is really picky about what starter you can use. the 16v is out of the question but there may be another that works. talk to mr220v

things you are probably forgetting.
external coil for the distributor.- dont forget you need that 5th coil.
map sensor- my bt was missing the map. good thing I grabbed one for my st.
irridium spark plugs
spark plug wire clips- make sure you have all your clips, I had to use double sidded tape to hold my wires in.
speedometer parts. if you are using the bt transmission you need to go to the dealer and order the internal speedometer parts from the original transmission for the mr2. then you pull out the one in the newer transmission and you replace it with the ones from toyota.


as far as odd things I needed to do the swap. If you have a garage that has a engine hoist in it. chances are the only thing you might be missing is a tool to take off the axel nuts.

[kazin1111]

Originally Posted by delgato

Good info thanks for the heads up.
Whats chapin' me right now is the lack of the starter. The ad said complete motor minus tranny. Well I called and he is sticking with the idea a starter goes with a tranny. (I am thinking if I bought a tranny alone, there would no starter and the story would be that it goes with the motor) either way he said he'd look around.
I may have to hold up on the velocity stack setup until I get all the basic done (starter, DP) I am hoping the DP is no problem. I plan on buying from te51levin(?)
You had to buy a second motor? You are selling your car right? Why?

The second motor story can be read here

HELP Head stud broke off inside block.

great example of just how helpful people on this forum are.



I'm selling my car because I cannot afford to make this car wrecklessly fast.
the 20v motor just won't put down the power I need at a price I can afford. I'm either gonna sell the entire swap for 2000$ and go 1.5. Or i'll sell the entire mr2 and purchase a 240sx.....