Knock:(!!!!

espguitarist33 · 09-30-2009, 06:14 PM

so i plugged the vac lines and it idles like a dream. but i have a knocking/tapping sound at idle..and as i gently rev the motor it increases with speed until it stops knocking all together and the engine runs smoothly

valve tap?
I have 10w 30 oil in it right now

hopefully not a rod knock!

espguitarist33 · 10-01-2009, 12:10 AM

YouTube - 20V 4AGE Silver Top

theres a video of someone elses car...but its VERY similar to that...a little bit quieter at idle...and it disapears at a lower rpm and dissapears fully...all the sudden it sounds like a god given miracle (probably 1500 to 1700 rpm is the stop point)

espguitarist33 · 10-02-2009, 02:55 AM

possibly valve tap? not really sure how to do valve adjustments...i'm guessing i couldnt just order a set of factory shims? :/

mr220v · 10-02-2009, 12:41 PM

Some of the 20v's, like the 16v's, have a fair bit of valve tick. Generally that's the sign of a higher mileage motor I guess.

On the other hand, I once had this 16v that would tick once it warmed up. I didn't figure it out, but the whole time I was thinking valves. Sold it to a guy for a 20v swap. He tore the thing down, and it turned out that it was bearings.

How clean is your motor internally?

espguitarist33 · 10-02-2009, 12:49 PM

i lifted the valve cover and it pretty much spotless...there was oil already in the car and that was blacker then i've ever seen no idea what weight it was..but i ran 10-30 like the bt manual says. theres a thread on club4ag that says their running 20w50 above 20 degrees F and its not gunna be that for long round here. They also suspect vvt pulley..but i cannot seem to find any information on what it sounds like or how to diagnose it...i'm almost posative its number 1 (idk anymore its the one next to the timing belt) and it goes away with rpm so i doubt its bearings (if it is i'm going to flip the %%%% out) i kinda feel like its either vvt or one of the valves in that cylinder...they are hydraulic correct?

mr220v · 10-02-2009, 01:07 PM

Nope, solid. The adjustments are made with shims that fit under the buckets. It's a pain to adjust, but rarely needs adjustment.

If it's a clean motor, that's a good sign that it's not something internal. It's not a lock, but most of the issues I see come out of these sludge boxes that only got 3 oil changes while they were in Japan.

You can also check your accessories, and check for a loose timing belt.

Oh, also check your crank pulley.....especially if you're throwing belts.

For the vvt, you would just have to replace the gear to see if it's the issue.

espguitarist33 · 10-02-2009, 01:31 PM

i figured out why it ate the belt...the little gear cover was on backwards and it hat a nick in it that cut up the belt ....
it sounds so top end i wanna move the little spark plug wire cover to grab whatever is tapping...and when i say it clears at high rpm the exhaust note changes the engine gets quite alive and alot louder and the tap/knock goes completly away
its not the vvt point though it happens more like 2k rpms or so and starts again when it drops below this

espguitarist33 · 10-02-2009, 07:41 PM

hm i started the engine today and I didnt even notice it....could I be listening to carbon buildup? it had smoke when I revved it that resembled seafoam smoke but was pretty thin and not lasting as long...but didnt at idle and didnt smoke at all today...hmm.. o.0

espguitarist33 · 10-03-2009, 02:20 PM

and today I started it and it was very mild sounding...i'm really confused with this one....seafoam time?

espguitarist33 · 10-06-2009, 07:36 PM

this now only happens when the engine is warm....when i cold start it it doesn't do it, but when I got home from my maiden voyage today It was tapping like hell

espguitarist33 · 10-08-2009, 10:46 PM

no thoughts as to the cause? could it be spark knock?

ToyotaTechGeek · 10-08-2009, 10:54 PM

MOST Toyotas are 'ticky'. if you are unsure, try a little ATF in the crankcase a few miles before your next oil change. by a little, i mean maybe top-off with it, not like a full quart.

espguitarist33 · 10-09-2009, 12:05 AM

ok ok...so I checked vlave clearaances...perfect....checked the too big gap end nad they are all in spec...so i'm thikning what could it be...and i'm wierded out by the VVT movment...but i noticed the exhaust cam is a few teeth off...i am having trouble figuring out how tight to make the belt...i can get it all on time but i get alot of slack in the top of the gears...its hard to do on the car

could a 4 tooth exhaust difference cause a knock-like sound at low rpms specifically wen warm?

espguitarist33 · 10-09-2009, 12:08 AM

this sounds like...knocky though (TTG i didnt see your post when i posted that) like not bearing...it is mixed in with the engine sound. I'm wondering if i could be hearing the oil coming out of the vvt gear, there is a little hole there that when I turn the cam it makes a squish/suck sound...at high pressure that could sound similar i suppose

espguitarist33 · 10-10-2009, 06:55 PM

with a screwdriver scope i found it to be behind the VVT gear and in the distributer...no low end noise though so i'm letting it fly

clean_corolla_4FZE · 10-10-2009, 08:28 PM

i work on cars everyday... well do oil changes on them and that does sound like a rod knock... but i know that if u use thicker oil... it should make it less noisier ... i have a friebd who has a mr2 and he puts 20w50... and it helps his noise settle down...

clean_corolla_4FZE · 10-10-2009, 08:30 PM

or lucas oil stabalizer good stuff

espguitarist33 · 10-10-2009, 11:48 PM

dude theres no way its a rod...i've been under the car and it is silent with a screwdriver to the vc it makes the sound behind the vvt (that little outlet hole i assume) and in the distributer. It is alot quieter then that video...alot now that the timing isnt off and the fuel isnt cheapo 80 something octane.

it goes away as it revs when my origional motor knocked that thing knocked nomatter what idle and reving and its alot warmer of a tone then the rod was (audio producing term

)
i wanna get 10w - 40 or 50 but i dont have money for the change yet and ten because its getting colder out and sometimes it goes waaay cold in november..i think it snowed mid november last year

09-30-2009, 06:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Knock:(!!!! so i plugged the vac lines and it idles like a dream. but i have a knocking/tapping sound at idle..and as i gently rev the motor it increases with speed until it stops knocking all together and the engine runs smoothly valve tap? I have 10w 30 oil in it right now hopefully not a rod knock!

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10-02-2009, 02:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	possibly valve tap? not really sure how to do valve adjustments...i'm guessing i couldnt just order a set of factory shims? :/

10-02-2009, 12:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Some of the 20v's, like the 16v's, have a fair bit of valve tick. Generally that's the sign of a higher mileage motor I guess. On the other hand, I once had this 16v that would tick once it warmed up. I didn't figure it out, but the whole time I was thinking valves. Sold it to a guy for a 20v swap. He tore the thing down, and it turned out that it was bearings. How clean is your motor internally?

10-02-2009, 12:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	i lifted the valve cover and it pretty much spotless...there was oil already in the car and that was blacker then i've ever seen no idea what weight it was..but i ran 10-30 like the bt manual says. theres a thread on club4ag that says their running 20w50 above 20 degrees F and its not gunna be that for long round here. They also suspect vvt pulley..but i cannot seem to find any information on what it sounds like or how to diagnose it...i'm almost posative its number 1 (idk anymore its the one next to the timing belt) and it goes away with rpm so i doubt its bearings (if it is i'm going to flip the %%%% out) i kinda feel like its either vvt or one of the valves in that cylinder...they are hydraulic correct?

10-02-2009, 01:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Nope, solid. The adjustments are made with shims that fit under the buckets. It's a pain to adjust, but rarely needs adjustment. If it's a clean motor, that's a good sign that it's not something internal. It's not a lock, but most of the issues I see come out of these sludge boxes that only got 3 oil changes while they were in Japan. You can also check your accessories, and check for a loose timing belt. Oh, also check your crank pulley.....especially if you're throwing belts. For the vvt, you would just have to replace the gear to see if it's the issue.

10-02-2009, 01:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	i figured out why it ate the belt...the little gear cover was on backwards and it hat a nick in it that cut up the belt .... it sounds so top end i wanna move the little spark plug wire cover to grab whatever is tapping...and when i say it clears at high rpm the exhaust note changes the engine gets quite alive and alot louder and the tap/knock goes completly away its not the vvt point though it happens more like 2k rpms or so and starts again when it drops below this

10-02-2009, 07:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	hm i started the engine today and I didnt even notice it....could I be listening to carbon buildup? it had smoke when I revved it that resembled seafoam smoke but was pretty thin and not lasting as long...but didnt at idle and didnt smoke at all today...hmm.. o.0

10-03-2009, 02:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	and today I started it and it was very mild sounding...i'm really confused with this one....seafoam time?

10-06-2009, 07:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	this now only happens when the engine is warm....when i cold start it it doesn't do it, but when I got home from my maiden voyage today It was tapping like hell

10-08-2009, 10:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	no thoughts as to the cause? could it be spark knock?

10-08-2009, 10:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
ToyotaTechGeek Giapetto is NOT my dad! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: ...boosting mid-corner Posts: 568 Thanks: 7 Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	MOST Toyotas are 'ticky'. if you are unsure, try a little ATF in the crankcase a few miles before your next oil change. by a little, i mean maybe top-off with it, not like a full quart.

10-09-2009, 12:05 AM	#13 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	ok ok...so I checked vlave clearaances...perfect....checked the too big gap end nad they are all in spec...so i'm thikning what could it be...and i'm wierded out by the VVT movment...but i noticed the exhaust cam is a few teeth off...i am having trouble figuring out how tight to make the belt...i can get it all on time but i get alot of slack in the top of the gears...its hard to do on the car could a 4 tooth exhaust difference cause a knock-like sound at low rpms specifically wen warm?

10-09-2009, 12:08 AM	#14 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	this sounds like...knocky though (TTG i didnt see your post when i posted that) like not bearing...it is mixed in with the engine sound. I'm wondering if i could be hearing the oil coming out of the vvt gear, there is a little hole there that when I turn the cam it makes a squish/suck sound...at high pressure that could sound similar i suppose

10-10-2009, 06:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	with a screwdriver scope i found it to be behind the VVT gear and in the distributer...no low end noise though so i'm letting it fly

10-10-2009, 08:28 PM	#16 (permalink)
clean_corolla_4FZE No Skills Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	i work on cars everyday... well do oil changes on them and that does sound like a rod knock... but i know that if u use thicker oil... it should make it less noisier ... i have a friebd who has a mr2 and he puts 20w50... and it helps his noise settle down...

10-10-2009, 08:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
clean_corolla_4FZE No Skills Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	or lucas oil stabalizer good stuff

10-10-2009, 11:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
espguitarist33 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: west chester PA Posts: 415 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	dude theres no way its a rod...i've been under the car and it is silent with a screwdriver to the vc it makes the sound behind the vvt (that little outlet hole i assume) and in the distributer. It is alot quieter then that video...alot now that the timing isnt off and the fuel isnt cheapo 80 something octane. it goes away as it revs when my origional motor knocked that thing knocked nomatter what idle and reving and its alot warmer of a tone then the rod was (audio producing term ) i wanna get 10w - 40 or 50 but i dont have money for the change yet and ten because its getting colder out and sometimes it goes waaay cold in november..i think it snowed mid november last year