Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfromnh
hmmm... though i still have my beliefs, i understand what your saying...
I do have one point though, if alot of the energy produced/used from a gas engine is lost through heat then wouldn't using HHO be an improvement? It has been proven that when burned together (obviously it just makes water again) that the container (cylinder or a welding torch) remains relatively cool/ or at least a lot less hot compared to gas... I remember doing this in my science class in high school....
So, wouldn't that make the engines energy consumption lower and make it more efficient? And im curious about the electronic frequencies and added potassium hydroxide- im wondering if these were factored into the original theory that in electrolysis it requires more energy to break the bond than the hydrogen can provide... and why does everyone forget about poor little oxygen?? Theres extra energy in him that doesn't get mentioned?... And im also curious as to why i can make my lawn mower run (granted it wasn't a complete setup) but i can't just make what i made a little larger and put it in a car? whats the difference?
Im not trying to be difficult... just trying to answer my own questions (which you are doing  ) and try to enlighten others... |
Actually, running a cooler gas would be less efficient (read: ethanol). The reason for this that our engines work from a rapid expansion of pressure in the cylinder. We get this rapid expansion from the heat of combustion. Our "heat loss" is due to heat from the combustion not being entirely used (because the gasses are only in the chamber for so long they can't absorb it all) and because of mechanical friction.
Now for HHO, it produces a TON of heat. Depending on the hydrogen to oxygen ratio, you can produce heat up to 2,800C (per wikipedia). In welding, I will admit I don't know specifically WHY the tips remain that cold given the flame temps. If I have to speculate, I'd say that because water is so fantastic at soaking up heat (take at look at the W2A intercoolers
) that the resulting molecules are carrying the resulting heat away from the nozzle as steam.
Because the cylinder is contained to a much higher degree than an open atmosphere welder, it's temperature would rise.
People aren't forgetting about the oxygen. When they say that "the hydrogen is only providing x amount of power," they're referring to the chemical combining of hydrogen and oxygen.
However, hydrogen will always provide less energy than the energy it takes to break the bond (to oxygen. Remember, I did post a link earlier about it's bonds to nitrogen). This is part of the second law of thermodynamics- getting more energy from something than is put into it is called "perpetual motion" and is a scientific impossibility.
The issue then, is mode conversion- how can we extract more USABLE energy from it than we put in? Take a look at power plants for example. Geothermal plants get their "input" energy from (ultimately) the earth's compression. We just need an efficient means to harvest it. Coal/oil plants get their input from the decomposition of dead plants/animals and pressure from the earth. Nuclear plants get their energy from natural radioactive decay. Etc.
You could definitely run a car on hydrogen gas- but my argument has always been that you will NOT be able to do it with a self-sufficient, self-sustained reactor because of the mode conversion that is involved under the hood.
Side note: running the hydrogen in a hydrogen fuel cell to produce power will yield better power output per volume considering it's roll in automotive applications.
As for your lawn mower, please explain a bit more. If you're going to tell me that you ran it off water in a self-contained unit onboard as we've been discussing... Beg your pardon but I wouldn't believe you. Reason being: these are petrol engines. Gaseous hydrogen at STP only provides ~1/3,400 the power of gasoline per volume. While that full power commitment doesn't need to be fulfilled to run the engine, you aren't going to have the power to generate enough hydrogen by using the onboard power and you won't be able to attach electrodes with large enough surface area to make it happen in a timely fashion.