[Nacho]

Originally Posted by kblake

What racing division ran the 3SGTE?

JGTC Supras ran engines based off the 3SGTE, as well as the WRC AWD Celicas. The ST205 Celicas did quite well in the old Group B rally category, where you had to keep the engine work pretty close to stock.

We're not talking about those cars. Honda has a long history of building nice race cars to compete with, and giving the masses wrong-wheel drive grocery getters to drive around in. In any case, I can't for the life of me see how Hondas are germane to a thread about two different flavors of an engine in a mid engine, RWD TOYOTAsports car. There's only one Honda that fits the bill, the NSX, and it still has nothing to do with the Toyota 3SGTE. I don't have anything against Hondas in general, one of my vehicles is a 2003 MDX. My objection is when you take an economy sedan and try to turn it into a sports car. There's a reason why the first big power increase for a Civic requires an ENGINE swap. It's because Honda didn't make them to go fast, they built them to transport people to and from the grocery store. My 57 year old mother drives a 91 Civic. She recently relocated from Boston to San Jose. I had to explain why kids were pulling up to her at lights and revving their engines at her.

Physics are physics.

And your random ranting about how worthless they are is inly wasting your breath. They're still racing, and winning, and you're still here talking about racing.

Only when you try to use it in a discussion where it has no bearing. News Flash: My MR2 is one of 3 cars I presently own. I've owned and worked on a lot of other cars in the past. I just don't bring them up on the MR2 FORUMS because they are not MR2's There's a perfect forum for you to talk about Hondas though: http://www.mr2forums.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

The fact that the MR2 communiy as a whole seemingly doesn't want to accept known facts and apply them to our cars is why there's been 2+ 7 page threads discussing 2.5" pipe vs 3" pipe. 3" is better. Period. Done.

If you try to operate in a vacum of the knowlegde gained from others, you're going to be inefficent.

I've attended two hot lapping days at Portland International Raceway, one at TGPR (SE2001), and one at LVMS (SW2003). I actually prefer driving my car on a road course to taking it to the drag strip.

I'll take my 5 seasons of racing and not talk about what i know anymore.

I'll check it out right after I buy a Honda that I plan to road race/AutoX.

There's MANY other types of cars owned by people on there, and they're all discussed. Unlike some forums, the people who started there are welcome back with their new cars.

The 3SGTE AFM doesn't reach full deflection until somewhere around 300RWHP. Someone recently measured the pressure drop across the AFM at that volume of airflow, and the restriction was negligible.

Ok. The AFM is still inferior to a MAP as it becomes useless quite early in the 'huge power' department you're talking about.

MY point is that speed density systems are very intolerant of Ve improvements. Those cars may make that power short term, but in the long run, they will probably blow up if the ECU is not retuned.

IIRC, RiddleMR2 ran on his for over a year. But I'm sure it was JUST about to blow up.

ATS has a dyno, and offers tailored reflashes. We also have an extensive bank of maps for various setups, that we can ship out mail order. Those will obviously not get everything out of a particular setup that it's capable of, (because we are fairly conservative with the mail order tunes) but they are better than the generic ROM tunes that G-Force Engineering and Toyomoto were selling in GB's of the past.
I always recommend an EMS over a ROM tune, but sometimes it's just not in the budget. That's happening more and more, as the price of the car comes down to the point where just about anyone can afford to buy one. Someone who pays $20k for a car, probably has a couple of grand to put into it in mods. Someone who spends $5000 for a car, probably has a couple of hundred dollars to put into it.

I was wondering when you'd turn this 'techincal discussion' into an advertisement. I find it odd that no matter what, you always use your 'techincal knowledge' to advocate your products. It's like you're a parts salesman or something.

That's what's known in scientific testing circles as "anecdotal evidence", and is not worth the time it takes to type it. Furthermore, you are comparing to your 91. My contention is that the 93+ Gen 2 has the same close ratio gearbox with improved synchros, and available LSD as the 93+ Gen 3. Here is some REAL evidence:

If i had a 93 car with a stock transmission to compare it to, I would. But the only local 93+ car that i know of is the one I own and the transmission in it is the one that was hanging off the side of the engine in the clip. The original transmission is halfway around the country last i heard.

I'd be happy to match RPM/MPH in my car vs one in a stock 93+ USDM tranny'd car.

91 sales brochure: http://www.koracing.net/img/91OptionsPage1.jpg

"5 Speed manual overdrive transmission"

93 sales brochure: http://www.koracing.net/img/93OptionsPage1.jpg

"5 Speed manual overdrive transmission with dual cone synchros"

and 3 lines farther down:

"Viscous coupling limited slip differential"

Ken

I'm not debating the LSD in the 93+ vs the non-LSD tranny in the early cars. Im debating the gear ratios. LSDs don't affect the gear ratios.

Additionally just because the synchro count and the fact they have an LSD doesn't neccessarily make the transmissions indentical.

Often times the Japanese equvilent of a car will have a shorter final drive as the speeds and distances traveled in Japan isn't as much as in America, taking away much of the neccesity to have a long crusing gear for MPG purposes.