Sway bars: ST vs TRD vs Addco

pothiawala786 · 07-13-2008, 08:40 PM

I've been tweaking with my car lately just to get it to feel right, and I seem to be working around this ST front bar, but it just doesnt feel right, and makes it a bit too stiff. I would rather have the car a bit looser than this.

Here are my options, and I'd rather stick to these since they're readily available. They're practically the same price new as well, usually around $170. Used ones run $100.

ST is 24mm solid.
Addco is 22mm solid.
TRD is 22mm hollow.
Stock is 17-19mm, depending on options, but I'm not sure if its solid or hollow.

Now I know this topic has been beaten to death, but what I'm looking for is feedback from people that have experience with more than one (out of four) sway bars. I'm not sure if the TRD is going to stiff enough for me, considering its hollow. But then again, I'm not sure if going from the ST to the Addco is going to feel any different.

Modded/modding sway bars doesnt count, that could be played with when I'm trying to fine tune it.

I am sticking with the stock springs for now, biggest issue is being the roads around here, so swapping springs in my case cant be an option as long as its a DD.

kbrew8991 · 07-13-2008, 08:45 PM

ST is the one to have for race tires

streets, who autocrosses on street tires?

pothiawala786 · 07-13-2008, 08:48 PM

Agreed, but who can afford race tires? That really isnt the biggest issue, my biggest issue is that I almost always have a passenger, so my only option would be a tire trailer.

What I'm really trying to do is get the car more balanced, rather than having one end super stiff and the other end stock.

I am willing to trade my front ST bar if anyone has a TRD or Addco they want to get rid of.

kbrew8991 · 07-13-2008, 09:20 PM

you'll get a season worth out of them with anything that isn't the purple brand.... fwiw

at any rate, you need the higher grip of race tires to get the ST to work, so if you're not going to do that then going to less front bar is a smart move

pothiawala786 · 07-13-2008, 09:38 PM

I dont think race tires are going to be in the picture anytime soon.

Just not sure which front bar would be the best for my situation. I know the TRD can be re-drilled, and I could get an employee discount, maybe that should be my next move.

Anyone use an Addco bar before? I've seen a few people say the TRD isnt much more different than stock.

Werent you looking into the ST front bar? Want to swap (with cash on your end)?

kbrew8991 · 07-13-2008, 09:55 PM

I've got a stock bar, and I'm going to try an out-of-left-field idea when I purchase coilovers and get the desired roll resistances through spring rates alone (coupled with the stock swaybars to take advantage of NASA's ruleset)

thanks for offering though

pothiawala786 · 07-13-2008, 09:59 PM

I know Hillman on the other board has a used Addco for sale, I might have to try that. I need to find the formula to see how much of a difference it really is.

Will 2mm of thinner bar make that much of a difference (both being solid)? and how much difference?

pothiawala786 · 07-13-2008, 10:19 PM

Just found the formula.

If the stock bar is 19mm solid:

ST bar: 154% stiffer
Addco: 79% stiffer

Cant figure out the TRD one because its hollow.

pothiawala786 · 07-16-2008, 11:19 PM

Update:

Ended up buying a brand new Addco front bar off an Ebay seller for $148 shipped(with poly bushings and brackets). I recieved it in a day and installed it earlier today.

The bar is definately a bit smaller and lighter. Its solid just like the ST as well. The steering wheel feels much lighter and there is noticeably less understeer than before. On quicker corners, the car does feel more "loose" and does feel more prone to oversteer, but still predictable.

Not sure how the TRD would feel compared to this, but I think it would be way too soft for my taste. TRD rates their bar at ~30% stiffer than stock, which is alot less than the Addco (79% stiffer than stock). The addco feels like a good choice for a "middle bar".

There is one issue I came across though. The material around the endlink bolt holes is thicker on the Addco than the ST. Because of this, using my 93+ endlinks, the stud is a bit too short and the bar doesnt thread on as much as the ST. It is torqued down nice and tight, and has no play, but I do plan on getting different endlinks soon.

I havent really pushed the car on the street, since I usually dont to begin with, but I'll find out how the bar really feels this weekend. Just driving it around town, it definately feels like its a good choice for someone looking for something in between the ST and TRD.

Bak@EMSPowered · 07-17-2008, 01:51 AM

I'm pretty partial to the ST swaybars.

pothiawala786 · 07-17-2008, 08:41 AM

I liked the ST as well, but the difference between both our setups is that you have the rear bar as well, not to mention you probably have other suspension work. You have/had a much more balanced setup than me with just the front bar. The reason I didnt just pick up a rear ST bar is because of the wide adjustment range. I've read that its either too soft or too tight.

All I have suspension wise is the front sway bar. Previous owner replaced all 4 struts with brand new OEM ones, so I figured I'd use them a bit before swapping anything. Car is also a DD so stiffer springs are kind of hard to commit to. I had a car before this with custom spring rates (~400/400 and solid motor mounts) and driveability went down quite a bit. Of course it hooks up better, but I rather keep this car a bit more comfortable.

Another thing thats been bugging me with the ST is tear out/rip out. I've done everything on my end (reinforcement plates, stronger endlinks, etc) but I guess its just peace of mind.

atc8989 · 07-17-2008, 10:22 AM

why don't you buy the rear bar?

kbrew8991 · 07-20-2008, 07:19 PM

for SCCA's autocrossing stuff for the stock classes you can't touch your rear swaybar... I would venture thats why...

pothiawala786 · 07-20-2008, 08:40 PM

I'm in ASP (damn DP and MBC, but yet so much fun), so everything goes(as long as I keep the stock turbo). I just want to play/tweak with one component thorougly at a time.

Went to a local autox today with the Addco bar. Didnt know 2mm of difference would be that big, but man the car is MUCH EASIER to oversteer with and is very predictable/easy to catch. Doesnt understeer as much as the ST, but there is still a bit of initial understeer on turn-in, which is kind of a good thing though, since getting onto the throttle a bit heavy will get you into a controllable drift mid-corner/exit.

Loving the bar though. The TRD seems like it would have definately been too soft (considering what 2mm of less bar did in this situation), and I'm glad I went with the Addco.

nate277 · 07-21-2008, 12:38 AM

I have had my turbo for just over a year now, the car came with Eibach sportline springs, stock sway bars and strut tower braces. I thought the car handled quite well, but still thought there was room for improvement. So I slowly added a few things here and there. Started with a Greddy rear strut tower brace, was going to combine it with the stock x brace but the studs wern't long enough. 2 weeks ago i installed a TRD rear strut tower brace, and wow what an improvement. One week later i installed a TRD front sway bar. Once again, wow what an improvement. Finally, yesterday I installed a TRD rear sway bar. I could feel a remarkable improvement every time I added the new part. Regretfully, I have not put the car to the test on the track before and after each upgrade. Overall I am very pleased with the TRD bars. On hard corners the car is allot flatter, especially since the Rear sway bar was installed and I don't feel any extra under steer.

nate277 · 07-21-2008, 12:49 AM

Has anyone used/considered two's r us end links?

Bak@EMSPowered · 07-21-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate277

Has anyone used/considered two's r us end links?

We carry adjustable endlinks if you need a set:
Swaybars, Endlinks, and Misc : EMSPowered, High Quality, Great Service, Low Prices

Redstar · 07-21-2008, 01:18 AM

I recently purchased the TRD bars, been following this thread, good info!

baktasht, are there different endlinks for front and rear? I noticed the OE ones are differenet lengths. I'm looking to replace mine when I finally install my new sway bars.

Bak@EMSPowered · 07-21-2008, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redstar

I recently purchased the TRD bars, been following this thread, good info!

baktasht, are there different endlinks for front and rear? I noticed the OE ones are differenet lengths. I'm looking to replace mine when I finally install my new sway bars.

Both front and rear will use the same ones. They're adjustable length.

Luni · 07-21-2008, 04:01 AM

I have front and rear TRD bars and its ALOT different than stock.

I have to say with the TRD front and rears, the car has more of a tendancy to understeer and oversteer, if that makes any sense.

What that really means to me, is if I had a set of ultra sticky tires, the car would go the direction its supposed to. Right now sometimes it plows, and sometimes it just comes right out in the back.

I guess thats no different than stock after all upon further analysis.

I do like the TRDs better than stock tho. Theyre a helluva lot lighter anyway. Thats weight reduction if anything.

07-13-2008, 08:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	Sway bars: ST vs TRD vs Addco I've been tweaking with my car lately just to get it to feel right, and I seem to be working around this ST front bar, but it just doesnt feel right, and makes it a bit too stiff. I would rather have the car a bit looser than this. Here are my options, and I'd rather stick to these since they're readily available. They're practically the same price new as well, usually around $170. Used ones run $100. ST is 24mm solid. Addco is 22mm solid. TRD is 22mm hollow. Stock is 17-19mm, depending on options, but I'm not sure if its solid or hollow. Now I know this topic has been beaten to death, but what I'm looking for is feedback from people that have experience with more than one (out of four) sway bars. I'm not sure if the TRD is going to stiff enough for me, considering its hollow. But then again, I'm not sure if going from the ST to the Addco is going to feel any different. Modded/modding sway bars doesnt count, that could be played with when I'm trying to fine tune it. I am sticking with the stock springs for now, biggest issue is being the roads around here, so swapping springs in my case cant be an option as long as its a DD. Last edited by pothiawala786; 07-13-2008 at 08:46 PM..

07-13-2008, 09:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	I dont think race tires are going to be in the picture anytime soon. Just not sure which front bar would be the best for my situation. I know the TRD can be re-drilled, and I could get an employee discount, maybe that should be my next move. Anyone use an Addco bar before? I've seen a few people say the TRD isnt much more different than stock. Werent you looking into the ST front bar? Want to swap (with cash on your end)? Last edited by pothiawala786; 07-13-2008 at 09:49 PM..

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07-13-2008, 08:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 76 Thanked 82 Times in 70 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	ST is the one to have for race tires streets, who autocrosses on street tires?

07-13-2008, 08:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	Agreed, but who can afford race tires? That really isnt the biggest issue, my biggest issue is that I almost always have a passenger, so my only option would be a tire trailer. What I'm really trying to do is get the car more balanced, rather than having one end super stiff and the other end stock. I am willing to trade my front ST bar if anyone has a TRD or Addco they want to get rid of.

07-13-2008, 09:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 76 Thanked 82 Times in 70 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	you'll get a season worth out of them with anything that isn't the purple brand.... fwiw at any rate, you need the higher grip of race tires to get the ST to work, so if you're not going to do that then going to less front bar is a smart move

07-13-2008, 09:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 76 Thanked 82 Times in 70 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	I've got a stock bar, and I'm going to try an out-of-left-field idea when I purchase coilovers and get the desired roll resistances through spring rates alone (coupled with the stock swaybars to take advantage of NASA's ruleset) thanks for offering though

07-13-2008, 09:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	I know Hillman on the other board has a used Addco for sale, I might have to try that. I need to find the formula to see how much of a difference it really is. Will 2mm of thinner bar make that much of a difference (both being solid)? and how much difference?

07-13-2008, 10:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	Just found the formula. If the stock bar is 19mm solid: ST bar: 154% stiffer Addco: 79% stiffer Cant figure out the TRD one because its hollow.

07-16-2008, 11:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	Update: Ended up buying a brand new Addco front bar off an Ebay seller for $148 shipped(with poly bushings and brackets). I recieved it in a day and installed it earlier today. The bar is definately a bit smaller and lighter. Its solid just like the ST as well. The steering wheel feels much lighter and there is noticeably less understeer than before. On quicker corners, the car does feel more "loose" and does feel more prone to oversteer, but still predictable. Not sure how the TRD would feel compared to this, but I think it would be way too soft for my taste. TRD rates their bar at ~30% stiffer than stock, which is alot less than the Addco (79% stiffer than stock). The addco feels like a good choice for a "middle bar". There is one issue I came across though. The material around the endlink bolt holes is thicker on the Addco than the ST. Because of this, using my 93+ endlinks, the stud is a bit too short and the bar doesnt thread on as much as the ST. It is torqued down nice and tight, and has no play, but I do plan on getting different endlinks soon. I havent really pushed the car on the street, since I usually dont to begin with, but I'll find out how the bar really feels this weekend. Just driving it around town, it definately feels like its a good choice for someone looking for something in between the ST and TRD.

07-17-2008, 01:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bak@EMSPowered Banned Seller Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,925 Thanks: 30 Thanked 193 Times in 165 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (49/93% )	I'm pretty partial to the ST swaybars.

07-17-2008, 08:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	I liked the ST as well, but the difference between both our setups is that you have the rear bar as well, not to mention you probably have other suspension work. You have/had a much more balanced setup than me with just the front bar. The reason I didnt just pick up a rear ST bar is because of the wide adjustment range. I've read that its either too soft or too tight. All I have suspension wise is the front sway bar. Previous owner replaced all 4 struts with brand new OEM ones, so I figured I'd use them a bit before swapping anything. Car is also a DD so stiffer springs are kind of hard to commit to. I had a car before this with custom spring rates (~400/400 and solid motor mounts) and driveability went down quite a bit. Of course it hooks up better, but I rather keep this car a bit more comfortable. Another thing thats been bugging me with the ST is tear out/rip out. I've done everything on my end (reinforcement plates, stronger endlinks, etc) but I guess its just peace of mind.

07-17-2008, 10:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
atc8989 atc8989 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 76 Thanks: 14 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	why don't you buy the rear bar?

07-20-2008, 07:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 76 Thanked 82 Times in 70 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	for SCCA's autocrossing stuff for the stock classes you can't touch your rear swaybar... I would venture thats why...

07-20-2008, 08:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
pothiawala786 Some skills Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	I'm in ASP (damn DP and MBC, but yet so much fun), so everything goes(as long as I keep the stock turbo). I just want to play/tweak with one component thorougly at a time. Went to a local autox today with the Addco bar. Didnt know 2mm of difference would be that big, but man the car is MUCH EASIER to oversteer with and is very predictable/easy to catch. Doesnt understeer as much as the ST, but there is still a bit of initial understeer on turn-in, which is kind of a good thing though, since getting onto the throttle a bit heavy will get you into a controllable drift mid-corner/exit. Loving the bar though. The TRD seems like it would have definately been too soft (considering what 2mm of less bar did in this situation), and I'm glad I went with the Addco.

07-21-2008, 12:38 AM	#15 (permalink)
nate277 No Skills Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sherwood Park AB Posts: 32 Thanks: 6 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I have had my turbo for just over a year now, the car came with Eibach sportline springs, stock sway bars and strut tower braces. I thought the car handled quite well, but still thought there was room for improvement. So I slowly added a few things here and there. Started with a Greddy rear strut tower brace, was going to combine it with the stock x brace but the studs wern't long enough. 2 weeks ago i installed a TRD rear strut tower brace, and wow what an improvement. One week later i installed a TRD front sway bar. Once again, wow what an improvement. Finally, yesterday I installed a TRD rear sway bar. I could feel a remarkable improvement every time I added the new part. Regretfully, I have not put the car to the test on the track before and after each upgrade. Overall I am very pleased with the TRD bars. On hard corners the car is allot flatter, especially since the Rear sway bar was installed and I don't feel any extra under steer.

07-21-2008, 12:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
nate277 No Skills Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sherwood Park AB Posts: 32 Thanks: 6 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Has anyone used/considered two's r us end links?

07-21-2008, 01:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
Redstar My other cars are jealous Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 439 Thanks: 21 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts iTrader Rating: (12/100% )	I recently purchased the TRD bars, been following this thread, good info! baktasht, are there different endlinks for front and rear? I noticed the OE ones are differenet lengths. I'm looking to replace mine when I finally install my new sway bars.

07-21-2008, 04:01 AM	#20 (permalink)
Luni Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Salt Lake City Utah Posts: 3,213 Thanks: 10 Thanked 130 Times in 110 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	I have front and rear TRD bars and its ALOT different than stock. I have to say with the TRD front and rears, the car has more of a tendancy to understeer and oversteer, if that makes any sense. What that really means to me, is if I had a set of ultra sticky tires, the car would go the direction its supposed to. Right now sometimes it plows, and sometimes it just comes right out in the back. I guess thats no different than stock after all upon further analysis. I do like the TRDs better than stock tho. Theyre a helluva lot lighter anyway. Thats weight reduction if anything.