Phoenix Power Exhaust Manifold

[JDMsw20]

Originally Posted by WFX

On a side note Ive compared the manifold with my old 5SFE one and they dont match either so maybe its a 3SGE/3SGTE one? What you cant see on the pictures is that there is 2 bolt holes on the bottom middle compared to one for the BEAMS.

Since it does'nt share the same bolt design as the 5sfe head that would mean that your current manifold is meant for the gen3 3sge (170hp) that shares the same head design as the Gen3 3sgte (245hp). My old Gen3 3sgte had 8 stud bolts on the head.

91-92 3sgte has 7bolts
93-95 3sgte has the same head design but has 9 bolts
95+ 3sgte has 8 bolts

[MR2-Mike]

Anyone know the wait time for the Departure II 85 Pro Muffler? Can't find a number to call them.

[|TwIsTeD|]

Ask lander if he has any pics/info. I think he has the same manifold

Then again they could have sent you the wrong one. It happens...

[WFX]

Ive sent them a email but still no reply guess being the weekend and all as for phone number I dont think I could understand them anyway.

The original BEAMS manifold has only 5 bolts and the one they sent me has 6 bolts?? So any other ideas!

[msumr282]

Originally Posted by WFX

What you cant see on the pictures is that there is 2 bolt holes on the bottom middle compared to one for the BEAMS.

As said by JDMsw20, you most likely have the gen3 manifold. this is what a gen3 exhaust-side head looks like:

[mr220v]

On a side note, its good news that this gen3 manifold fits up to your Beams bpipe. I'm thinking that means that we can use a stock gen3 bpipe with the beams stock manifold.

[msumr282]

WFX (or anyone) -

Do you have pictures of the BEAMS head sans headers? Also possibly a comparison picture of the headers turned around so that you can see the inside tubing at the head end?

I'm trying to figure out how well the TRD Altezza header can be modified to fit the Gen3 head I have pictured. It would be configured as a side exhaust.

Thanks,
Joe

[msumr282]

We need to clear some misinformation up as I have seen in in a couple of threads as of late:

Originally Posted by puretone

just remember, our engines flow gas like a bat outta hell, so yeah bigger runners would help, just so long as you put some sort of back pressure on the exhaust.

There is an optimum pipe size, bigger is not always better. A smaller diameter will increase velocity. Velocity is a consideration in scavenging in a tuned exhaust. You may be confusing scavenging with backpressure.

Back pressure is resistance to exhaust flow.

It is an increase in the load that the piston must overcome on the upstroke. It is a force resisting the movement of the piston. It means energy is being wasted pushing the exhaust gasses out, which could have been used to turn the wheels.

It is also an interference with smooth flow of the fresh charge on the intake stroke. The more back pressure, the less fresh A/F charge that can be ingested. Back pressure reduces the engine's VE.

Back pressure is bad! The optimum level of back pressure is zero. Remember that an engine is a pump. Any thing that restricts the flow through the pump lowers its perfromance.

- Joe

[puretone]

Originally Posted by msumr282

We need to clear some misinformation up as I have seen in in a couple of threads as of late:



There is an optimum pipe size, bigger is not always better. A smaller diameter will increase velocity. Velocity is a consideration in scavenging in a tuned exhaust. You may be confusing scavenging with backpressure.

Back pressure is resistance to exhaust flow.

It is an increase in the load that the piston must overcome on the upstroke. It is a force resisting the movement of the piston. It means energy is being wasted pushing the exhaust gasses out, which could have been used to turn the wheels.

It is also an interference with smooth flow of the fresh charge on the intake stroke. The more back pressure, the less fresh A/F charge that can be ingested. Back pressure reduces the engine's VE.

Back pressure is bad! The optimum level of back pressure is zero. Remember that an engine is a pump. Any thing that restricts the flow through the pump lowers its perfromance.

- Joe

okay good, correct my 'backpressure' with scavenging....i did note that when i ran 2.5" free flowing exhaust piping that my power went way down, then added a straight-thru (but swirled) resonator about 3 feet from the exhaust ports that i got a huge increase in power.....then off to the muffler, again a 2.5" inlet which again aided the whole mess of power. Point being that running NA you need this scavenging to a certain degree....going 2.5" and then along the way reducing to 2.25" might happen to help as well....just that my flexpipe had 2.5" coming off of it so i decided to continue with the 2.5" all the way to the back...
resonator & muffler from Vibrant Performance btw, i recommend that!

[WFX]

UPDATE: Ok spoke to Taka and told them my shipment did not fit, what I shouldnt have said is that my BEAMS is in my Celica as they replied with this manifold fits a MR2! I replied with sneakly (so as to not confuse them) the BEAMS from a MR2 I have dropped into my Celica which in theory should be eaxctly the same as its the same motor and therefore should fit! I then ask for them to make sure that they have sent me the VVTi version of the phenix manifold as the fitment is way off.... that was over a week ago and I yet to get a reply yet so I'm about to email them again and hopefully this week they will reply.

On a side note I have taken pics of each manifold with a few measurements so you can see the differences. The pipes are definately bigger only by 0.5cm by still bigger then the original manifold and as msumr282 said it definately looks like I have a gen 3 header!



EDIT: I've been thinking about this back pressure we are suppose to have and perhaps I dont have any. I'm running 2 1/2 inch straight through from the cat, into the muffler which is in the middle of the car and then down to rear axles where it splits into 2 inch for the sides! As there isnt any space before the muffler for a resonator can you put one in after the muffler to create back pressure?

[puretone]

cat ---> resonator-------------------------------muffler-----\



like that?

[msumr282]

The last thing you want to do is create backpressure. You want to relieve backpresure.

[Roman]

Originally Posted by WFX

UPDATE: Ok spoke to Taka and told them my shipment did not fit, what I shouldnt have said is that my BEAMS is in my Celica as they replied with this manifold fits a MR2! I replied with sneakly (so as to not confuse them) the BEAMS from a MR2 I have dropped into my Celica which in theory should be eaxctly the same as its the same motor and therefore should fit!

Well yeah, they're full of shit basically.

I've got proof that it fits... I wouldnt have an exhaust otherwise!

[WFX]

Ok Taka have finally replied to my emails and have said YES that is not the VVTi part it is infact the 96-97 (6 bolts) and I need the 97-99 (5 bolts) part which they are happy to send IF I pay for shipping!

So what I want to know is WHY does that 96-97 part number list it as VVTi only! Anyone know if MR2 was released in 96/97 with VVTi?

[|TwIsTeD|]

If they are the ones who messed up your order, it should be their responsibility to pay the shipping to return your headers and be shipping the proper headers to you free.

[JDMsw20]

Originally Posted by WFX

Ok Taka have finally replied to my emails and have said YES that is not the VVTi part it is infact the 96-97 (6 bolts) and I need the 97-99 (5 bolts) part which they are happy to send IF I pay for shipping!

So what I want to know is WHY does that 96-97 part number list it as VVTi only! Anyone know if MR2 was released in 96/97 with VVTi?

1) They should be responsible for the shipping cost since they made the mistake

2) Beams VVTi started in 1997 when the G Limited Spyders was introduced

[WFX]

Well if thats the case then I should beable to get them on a technically as the item I ordered they listed to be VVTi Enabled Only which hopefully is wrong and therefore that is what drew me to my wrong selection. They have now updated the site also with the proper BEAMS version and listed how many bolt holes each one has!

See how we go....

[xinkid]

0.5cm = 0.2 in That's a big difference in primary diameter. The power band is going to be shifted to the right a lot with that much difference.

WFX, what's that 5SFE header?

[WFX]

Originally Posted by xinkid

0.5cm = 0.2 in That's a big difference in primary diameter. The power band is going to be shifted to the right a lot with that much difference.

WFX, what's that 5SFE header?

Remembering that Phoenix one they sent me is actually for a 3SGE Gen 3 so the diamter size might be different again when the BEAMS one actually arrives, Ill let you all know when i have it. The wrong one is on its way back to Japan now!

That 5SFE header is from my last original motor I had in there, 1993 5SFE I just used that for extra comparision coz I had it sitting there at the time!

[xinkid]

I wish our USDM 5SFE's came with a header