Apexi PFC Brash Boy Spec.

[lander]

Where to get that HKS MAF adapter?


Lander

[puretone]

Originally Posted by lander

Where to get that HKS MAF adapter?


Lander

yeah im there with lander, where'd you get the adapter?????

[WFX]

I got mine with my half cut but cant say Ive seen them for sale yet! i know HKS sell other MAF units but havnt seen the BEAMS ones nor do they list them in the product guide!

So eh....

[puretone]

Originally Posted by WFX

I got mine with my half cut but cant say Ive seen them for sale yet! i know HKS sell other MAF units but havnt seen the BEAMS ones nor do they list them in the product guide!

So eh....

i've seen them for Altezza, which *should* suit our needs....sometimes in a HKS Airfilter & Adapter combo....with one of those green filter things...

edit: just dont know where to buy it lol

[mr220v]

You can get something similar off of ebay. Basically you're looking for an aftermarket intake for a 98+ camry v6. It has the mounting spot for the afm+ nozzles for the idle control tubes.

Mine cost $30 shipped and came with a filter. You'll notice it once I get around to posting pics of my motor.

I still don't know know why brashboy supplied that coolant temp sensor? I looked at the blacktop stock pinout and don't see anything that looks like a second coolant temp sensor?

I doubt the different sensors read differently.

Are the newer toyota temp sensors somehow different? The newer gauge sensors might be.

[puretone]

Originally Posted by mr220v

You can get something similar off of ebay. Basically you're looking for an aftermarket intake for a 98+ camry v6. It has the mounting spot for the afm+ nozzles for the idle control tubes.

Mine cost $30 shipped and came with a filter. You'll notice it once I get around to posting pics of my motor.

I still don't know know why brashboy supplied that coolant temp sensor? I looked at the blacktop stock pinout and don't see anything that looks like a second coolant temp sensor?

I doubt the different sensors read differently.

Are the newer toyota temp sensors somehow different? The newer gauge sensors might be.

i was looking at the waveforms, and i have a feeling the OEM temp sensor sends a different (newer) signal than what the PowerFC uses, or can use...

as for the intake, something like http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-01...01517931QQrdZ1 ??

[nikk1877]

Originally Posted by puretone

yeah im there with lander, where'd you get the adapter?????

I got mine from BrashBoy - it was part of the HKS Super Power Flow Reloaded intake kit for the Celica. It only cost 87GBP.
I just checked HKS Europe and they have it listed for the Celica ST202 3SGE VVT-i (115GBP!?!) http://www.hkseurope.com/

Sound clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC_1cn2vVcE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdI1fhONAP4

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by puretone

i was looking at the waveforms, and i have a feeling the OEM temp sensor sends a different (newer) signal than what the PowerFC uses, or can use...

as for the intake, something like http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-01...01517931QQrdZ1 ??

Yup, thats the intake. Pretty cheap, not as nice looking as some of the other units on the market, but does the job.

A difference in signal has to be the reason for seperate sensor. The original beams sensor can't just be eliminated because it has the sensor for the gauge built in. I wonder if the blacktop beams has a 3pronged sensor like the redtop. I bet that even if it did, it wouldn't drive the temp gauge properly.

For what i'm planning, this wouldn't make much of a difference. The nice thing about running a gen3 3sgte water outlet housing is that you have seperate temp sensors. One for the gauge, and one for the ecu. So, if I ran the apexi BT ecu, I could just get the correct ecu temp sensor, and just plug in the gauge temp sensor that i'm not running now.

In fact, for anybody planning to swap with a beams from a celica, you'll need a different water outlet housing anyway. The beams housing is actually harder to get than the gen3 3sgte housing, at least it is in the US, so most likely you have the extra sensor anyway.

Aside from this and the pinouts, I wonder what other differences there are?

It would be great if running a plain apexi ecu was a viable alternative to the stock ecu seeing as how finding beams ecu's seems to be very difficult.

I'd just have to follow a different set of pins when I made the harness.

[Roman]

Originally Posted by mr220v

I still don't know know why brashboy supplied that coolant temp sensor? I looked at the blacktop stock pinout and don't see anything that looks like a second coolant temp sensor?

I doubt the different sensors read differently.
e.

Nope! it's just a quirk of using two ECUs, they cant share a temp sensor.

Here's a quote from a wise mind on a different forum:

Originally Posted by fivebob

From what I understand the ECU measures the voltage drop at the pin to determine the resistance of the sensor, which is just a thermistor, so you must supply the 5v to determine the resistance. The Motec and the Stock ECU have a pull up to 5v so if both of them supply 5v then the overall resistance value of the circuit would appear higher to the ECU's as the circuit has three resistors in it instead of two.

[mr220v]

^So that still leaves me looking for a reason as to why you can't use a standard blacktop apexi ecu instead of the stock redtop ecu?

Those stock beams ecu's sure are hard to find.

[puretone]

Originally Posted by Roman

Nope! it's just a quirk of using two ECUs, they cant share a temp sensor.

Here's a quote from a wise mind on a different forum:

i noticed that when i tried to run a water temp gauge on the stock temp sensor and spliced into it for the aftermarket temp gauge....

[Roman]

Originally Posted by mr220v

^So that still leaves me looking for a reason as to why you can't use a standard blacktop apexi ecu instead of the stock redtop ecu?

Those stock beams ecu's sure are hard to find.

Because the blacktop beams ECU uses an 'MMX' signal to send the information to the dash.... eg.

instead of having a wire for water temp, rpms, speedo, etc, it just uses one wire, called 'mmx' to transfer all of this information. Which is then decoded by the circuitry in the altezza dash.

So there's no reason why it couldnt run the engine, but to keep everything 'plug and play' for the brashboy, you still need the info from the stock ECU.

Obviously this wont work with a 'normal' dash, this is part of the reason why I chose to stay with the redtop engine for my Carina, instead of the Altezza one. Wiring is a lot less complicated.

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by Roman

Because the blacktop beams ECU uses an 'MMX' signal to send the information to the dash.... eg.

instead of having a wire for water temp, rpms, speedo, etc, it just uses one wire, called 'mmx' to transfer all of this information. Which is then decoded by the circuitry in the altezza dash.

So there's no reason why it couldnt run the engine, but to keep everything 'plug and play' for the brashboy, you still need the info from the stock ECU.

Obviously this wont work with a 'normal' dash, this is part of the reason why I chose to stay with the redtop engine for my Carina, instead of the Altezza one. Wiring is a lot less complicated.

I don't think gauges would be a problem. Say if I wanted to run an apexi ecu instead of my stock redtop ecu, all I would do is leave the wiring for my dash gauges intact. So, leave the circuit for my tempgauge along with oilpressure sending unit. Same with the alternator circuitry. My speedo is cable driven, so this will never be an issue. I thought that the tach might be a problem, but the blacktop ecu still has the SPD pin, so this should also not be an issue.

So from the looks of things, unless you wanted to run the altezza cluster, there shouldn't be anything additional needed for the gauges

[nikk1877]

Well guy's this has turned out to be a disaster.
Drove a 650mile round trip to get get my PFC mapped by the UK Beams experts, Rogue Systems, only to find that the damn thing won't store any of the new settings.
It was realised when they returned from the road mapping session, that when you turn off the ingnition, the setting that was previously entered had been wiped and the PFC had returned to it's Brashboy factory setting. Luckily all the dyno maps were then saved to a laptop so I do have a map which offers me a nice improvment across the whole rev range. But I need to flash it to the PFC with Datalogit every time I want to use it.
Also it appears my dyno results from Dastek in Scotland were rather optimistic. They recorded 154whp on the factory ECU while Rogue recorded 133whp. With the new map flashed onto the PFC it will rise to 140whp but the average increase across the whole RPM range is a bit more impressive. The guy at Rogue also commented on the fact that when I get rid of the factory exhaust there will be much more power available.
And Roman you were correct - the aftermarket intakes lean the crap out of them on the factory ECU. My AFR was in the 15's with the factory ECU but there was no knocking at all!?!? With the PFC map there will be no problems and will run a nice safe AFR of between 12-13 with the new intake fitted.
So now I think it's time to contact Brashboy and tell them I want a PFC that works PROPERLY!

On a higher note, the breif 10 minutes or so that I got to use the new map with the PFC, the improvements were instantly noticable. It punched alot harder in the low to mid range and pulled hard all the way to 7500rpm. But then I had to turn my ingniton off when I went to the refill the tank to get home and just switched back to the factory ECU because running the PFC with Brashboy settings is unsafe for UK fuel.
I will also return to my factory airbox unitll I can sort this out.

[Roman]

If the values are returning to default when you turn the car off, it's going to be a wiring issue, not an issue with the powerfc!

It should take all of 5 minutes for an auto sparky to fix that problem!

[nikk1877]

I wish it were only a wiring problem,

Here's how Lyndon(mapping and electronics guru) put it in a recent e-mail.

"The basic problem with your ECU is that the NVR (non volatile ram) seem to be set to read only. When changing parameters on the commander or by using the FC Data Logit software neither will write to the NVR and all changes are lost on power down".

[WFX]

Wasnt this the issue that people were having with piggyback computers for the BEAMS as well? Seems weird its happening with standalone ones, hmmmm.

[puretone]

Originally Posted by WFX

Wasnt this the issue that people were having with piggyback computers for the BEAMS as well? Seems weird its happening with standalone ones, hmmmm.

prolly a way to make sure no one messes with his maps....& charge extra for the PowerFC
we oughta figure out if we can get that map as a base point and then program our own PFC's for alot cheaper