What does BEAMS stand for? - Page 2

Lion_HUN · 07-17-2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuMan

Beams?..must have taken a wrong turn!
Ok, so while I'm here..what's a Beams got to offer over a 3SGTE..
Maybe it was carma that got me here

It has quite the same power as the stock 2. gen 3SGTE and eats a lot less. And no turbo lag, it has 160Nm from the max 210 at 1500 RPM!

mr220v · 07-17-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuMan

Beams?..must have taken a wrong turn!
Ok, so while I'm here..what's a Beams got to offer over a 3SGTE..
Maybe it was carma that got me here

-No turbo lag
-an easier swap for an NA car
-better reliability
-better performance than a stock usdm 3sgte

MuMan · 07-18-2007, 10:49 AM

Really? better perf than a stock 3SGTE..
so that's what 200FWHP or there abouts.
What year did they emerge..trans compatible?
and what can they be moded up to without going stupid..

sorry for all the ignorant questions.

mthreat · 07-18-2007, 02:51 PM

man I wish I had a 3SGE... I love NA power.

Anyone wanna trade, my black '95 stock turbo for a non-turbo 94-95 with clean BEAMS swap? I'm only half joking

I have no plans to ever modify my 3S-GTE, so I might as well have NA with the same horserpower but none of the extra complexity of turbo. (Ok I know BEAMS has its own problems, like getting parts...)

black94t · 07-18-2007, 03:09 PM

^ you better not! yea, I'd love to have a 95 NA with a beams in it. problem with equating 3sgte to a beams is the price tag. give me a beams for $2500, I MIGHT just throw that in the celica.

mr220v · 07-18-2007, 03:31 PM

Today is your lucky day:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-3...spagenameZWDVW

The beams works well with the normal s54. Performance wise vs the 3sgte, there are some pros and cons.
Pros: no lag, less weight
Cons: the 3sgte makes more peak torque (but over a narrower powerband)

Upgrade wise, it just doesn't get much easier than adding a boost contoller. So more power will be easier with the 3sgte. There is one guy running 13.1 in the 1/4 with an NA beams, but getting that was difficult and not cheap.

black94t · 07-18-2007, 05:55 PM

wow, I thought the beams was a 3500-4000 motor. I'm confused now. oh boy, I'd love to sport that in the celica....yummy.

MuMan · 07-19-2007, 01:48 AM

^^ That's one hell of a nice looking engine..only 1000 MR2's fitted with them!
got me thinking now.
Thanks for the education guys..

Gairloch · 07-19-2007, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuMan

so that's what 200FWHP or there abouts.

It results in 0 FWHP. Just like all other engines in the MR2.

MuMan · 07-19-2007, 03:40 AM

All got FlyWheels

Gairloch · 07-19-2007, 10:57 AM

FWHP = Front Wheel Horse Power

Just like

RWHP = Rear Wheel Horse Power

At least that's how I've always understood it.

shimric · 07-19-2007, 11:35 AM

bhp = brake horsepower or flywheel hp.

whp = wheel hp

I to believe you're right gair. wiki says the same thing. I think what he meant by fwhp was flywheel hp

Brake horsepower (bhp) is the measure of an engine's horsepower without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump, and other auxiliary components. Thus the prefix "brake" refers to where the power is measured: at the engine's output shaft, as on an engine dynamometer. The actual horsepower delivered to the driving wheels is less. An engine would have to be retested to obtain a rating in another system. The term "brake" refers to the original use of a band brake to measure torque during the test (which is multiplied by the engine RPM and a scaling constant to give horsepower).

Roman · 07-19-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuMan

^^ That's one hell of a nice looking engine..only 1000 MR2's fitted with them!

This is basically a big load of bollocks, this myth is perpetuated by those who want to make out that the beams engine is more rare/exclusive than it actually is.
Either to justify selling them for way too much, or for the bragging rights etc. There were at least 4-5000 beams mr2s made, and a whole lot more celicas/caldinas/altezzas/etc which came with engines that are either identical, or hugely similar.

I made a thread about it a while ago.

I mean I've got two beams engines, and was sorely tempted to buy another for a stupidly low price (700NZD). I seriously doubt that I own 1/500th of all beams motors in existance.

MANDALAY · 07-19-2007, 08:06 PM

IMO i have to disagree Toyota wouldn't have even been able to make that volume of MR2'S in the short time 1.5 years of production.
Bragging rights , well who are we to judge , maybe because yes it is /was exclusive ,only sold in Japan.
Yes i agree there are other versions of this engine in other cars .
But then again were talking MR2's.
Yes certain sellers take advantage of the rarity and command inflated prices.
Can a turbo engine be more powerfull you bet BUT for the people who like a N/A engine it was the most powerful for the MR2.
Each to their own l say .
When you look at other figures , l have a 1999 MR2 and here in Australia Toyota only managed to sell 21 cars for the whole year. Sure beats the 10 's of thousands of other models .

Roman · 07-19-2007, 11:29 PM

hahaha! That is nonsense. Toyota couldnt make 1500 cars in 1.5 years, are you nuts?! How do you think they made the 10s or 100s of thousands of other MR2s! not to mention the millions of other cars they crank out! 1500 is piss in a bucket. Given the scale of production from toyota, it doesnt make sense to produce a *small* amount of cars, not the other way around.
And only the Japanese model SW20 came with the beams engine anyway, so it's hardly 'authentic' to have a beams engine in one, even if it is fairly rare.

Here's the thread.

http://www.mr2board.com/forums/beams...oud-think.html

I've heard the likes of "1000 made and 500 in mr2s" "1000 in mr2s" "1000 mr2s with some of them beams powered" etc etc... all of which is just internet rumours.

There's easily in excess of 10,000 single VVTI 200hp engines out there, whether they're grey top or redtop is irrelevant, as they're the same thing!

MANDALAY · 07-20-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman

hahaha! That is nonsense. Toyota couldnt make 1500 cars in 1.5 years, are you nuts?! How do you think they made the 10s or 100s of thousands of other MR2s! not to mention the millions of other cars they crank out! 1500 is piss in a bucket. Given the scale of production from toyota, it doesnt make sense to produce a *small* amount of cars, not the other way around.
And only the Japanese model SW20 came with the beams engine anyway, so it's hardly 'authentic' to have a beams engine in one, even if it is fairly rare.

Here's the thread.

http://www.mr2board.com/forums/beams...oud-think.html

I've heard the likes of "1000 made and 500 in mr2s" "1000 in mr2s" "1000 mr2s with some of them beams powered" etc etc... all of which is just internet rumours.

There's easily in excess of 10,000 single VVTI 200hp engines out there, whether they're grey top or redtop is irrelevant, as they're the same thing!

MANDALAY · 07-20-2007, 01:33 AM

Sorry l didn't mean they couldn't produce the cars , l meant they wouln't have the sales . Their largest market was already gone, the States.
Yes the grey and red top are nearly the same but it was the red top in the MR2.
True if you get a commodore and convert it to a HSV its not a HSV, and likewise putting a red top in a MR2 , but its still done .Why maybe because their locality didn't have the option . Each to their own .
As far as the numbers are concerned it will take me time but l have all the vin numbers of red top MR2's made . They are skewed in amongst all the other versions made but l can number them.
I chose the red top b/c i just wanted it, not bragging rights or anything like that. l love the MR2 and the N/A , and l wanted the most powerful STANDARD engine they made.
Im totally restoring an immaculate 1999 , total strip and installing it with a totally brand new beams , all 972 pieces . Nuts may be, unique maybe BUT REALLY its because l love it and want a stock reliable MR2.

mr220v · 07-20-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman

hahaha! That is nonsense. Toyota couldnt make 1500 cars in 1.5 years, are you nuts?! How do you think they made the 10s or 100s of thousands of other MR2s! not to mention the millions of other cars they crank out! 1500 is piss in a bucket. Given the scale of production from toyota, it doesnt make sense to produce a *small* amount of cars, not the other way around.
And only the Japanese model SW20 came with the beams engine anyway, so it's hardly 'authentic' to have a beams engine in one, even if it is fairly rare.

Here's the thread.

http://www.mr2board.com/forums/beams...oud-think.html

I've heard the likes of "1000 made and 500 in mr2s" "1000 in mr2s" "1000 mr2s with some of them beams powered" etc etc... all of which is just internet rumours.

There's easily in excess of 10,000 single VVTI 200hp engines out there, whether they're grey top or redtop is irrelevant, as they're the same thing!

The number of original beams mr2's is probably not real high. 1000 might be right. After 10 years, I doubt the mk2 was selling well in Japan. The last year of the mk2 here in the US, under 1000 were sold turbo and NA.

The beams went into a lot of cars. 100,000+ maybe.

Roman · 07-20-2007, 03:04 AM

Well looking at the chassis code finding site:

http://jnc.farpost.com/data/framno/sw20.html

2347 SW20s were produced in 1998. I think that the beams ones were produced from late 97 onwards, so there would be at least 2000 genuine beams mr2s floating around....

MANDALAY · 07-20-2007, 12:59 PM

What ive found is
vin numbers encompasing the RED TOP BEAMS ARE
from 0112000 to 0114559 therefore 2559 MR2's made total BUT in those numbers are a hjgh proportion of turbo motors. Then there is also a high percentage of Autos. I can spend weeks looking at every vin but surfice to say less than half are the RED TOP so 1000 units sounds correct but THEN take away the autos . So i would say approx 500 manuals ever made.
That is a very short run in my books.
Please if anyone knows any better let me know

07-18-2007, 03:31 PM	#26 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	Today is your lucky day: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-3...spagenameZWDVW The beams works well with the normal s54. Performance wise vs the 3sgte, there are some pros and cons. Pros: no lag, less weight Cons: the 3sgte makes more peak torque (but over a narrower powerband) Upgrade wise, it just doesn't get much easier than adding a boost contoller. So more power will be easier with the 3sgte. There is one guy running 13.1 in the 1/4 with an NA beams, but getting that was difficult and not cheap. Last edited by mr220v; 07-18-2007 at 03:38 PM..

07-19-2007, 11:29 PM	#35 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 946 Thanks: 23 Thanked 56 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	hahaha! That is nonsense. Toyota couldnt make 1500 cars in 1.5 years, are you nuts?! How do you think they made the 10s or 100s of thousands of other MR2s! not to mention the millions of other cars they crank out! 1500 is piss in a bucket. Given the scale of production from toyota, it doesnt make sense to produce a small amount of cars, not the other way around. And only the Japanese model SW20 came with the beams engine anyway, so it's hardly 'authentic' to have a beams engine in one, even if it is fairly rare. Here's the thread. http://www.mr2board.com/forums/beams...oud-think.html I've heard the likes of "1000 made and 500 in mr2s" "1000 in mr2s" "1000 mr2s with some of them beams powered" etc etc... all of which is just internet rumours. There's easily in excess of 10,000 single VVTI 200hp engines out there, whether they're grey top or redtop is irrelevant, as they're the same thing! Last edited by Roman; 07-19-2007 at 11:38 PM..

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07-18-2007, 10:49 AM	#23 (permalink)
MuMan Nothing is forever.. Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 348 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Really? better perf than a stock 3SGTE.. so that's what 200FWHP or there abouts. What year did they emerge..trans compatible? and what can they be moded up to without going stupid.. sorry for all the ignorant questions.

07-18-2007, 02:51 PM	#24 (permalink)
mthreat Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 269 Thanks: 28 Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	man I wish I had a 3SGE... I love NA power. Anyone wanna trade, my black '95 stock turbo for a non-turbo 94-95 with clean BEAMS swap? I'm only half joking I have no plans to ever modify my 3S-GTE, so I might as well have NA with the same horserpower but none of the extra complexity of turbo. (Ok I know BEAMS has its own problems, like getting parts...)

07-18-2007, 03:09 PM	#25 (permalink)
black94t MR2 Powder Coater Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jefferson City, MO. Posts: 271 Thanks: 6 Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	^ you better not! yea, I'd love to have a 95 NA with a beams in it. problem with equating 3sgte to a beams is the price tag. give me a beams for $2500, I MIGHT just throw that in the celica.

07-18-2007, 05:55 PM	#27 (permalink)
black94t MR2 Powder Coater Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Jefferson City, MO. Posts: 271 Thanks: 6 Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	wow, I thought the beams was a 3500-4000 motor. I'm confused now. oh boy, I'd love to sport that in the celica....yummy.

07-19-2007, 01:48 AM	#28 (permalink)
MuMan Nothing is forever.. Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 348 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	^^ That's one hell of a nice looking engine..only 1000 MR2's fitted with them! got me thinking now. Thanks for the education guys..

07-19-2007, 03:40 AM	#30 (permalink)
MuMan Nothing is forever.. Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 348 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	All got FlyWheels

07-19-2007, 10:57 AM	#31 (permalink)
Gairloch Dreaming of apexes Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,313 Thanks: 139 Thanked 296 Times in 264 Posts Blog Entries: 4 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	FWHP = Front Wheel Horse Power Just like RWHP = Rear Wheel Horse Power At least that's how I've always understood it.

07-19-2007, 11:35 AM	#32 (permalink)
shimric OT Ruler, Thread Hijacker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: tom's moms house Posts: 1,510 Thanks: 42 Thanked 49 Times in 42 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	bhp = brake horsepower or flywheel hp. whp = wheel hp I to believe you're right gair. wiki says the same thing. I think what he meant by fwhp was flywheel hp Brake horsepower (bhp) is the measure of an engine's horsepower without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump, and other auxiliary components. Thus the prefix "brake" refers to where the power is measured: at the engine's output shaft, as on an engine dynamometer. The actual horsepower delivered to the driving wheels is less. An engine would have to be retested to obtain a rating in another system. The term "brake" refers to the original use of a band brake to measure torque during the test (which is multiplied by the engine RPM and a scaling constant to give horsepower).

07-19-2007, 08:06 PM	#34 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 4,210 Thanks: 136 Thanked 112 Times in 107 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	IMO i have to disagree Toyota wouldn't have even been able to make that volume of MR2'S in the short time 1.5 years of production. Bragging rights , well who are we to judge , maybe because yes it is /was exclusive ,only sold in Japan. Yes i agree there are other versions of this engine in other cars . But then again were talking MR2's. Yes certain sellers take advantage of the rarity and command inflated prices. Can a turbo engine be more powerfull you bet BUT for the people who like a N/A engine it was the most powerful for the MR2. Each to their own l say . When you look at other figures , l have a 1999 MR2 and here in Australia Toyota only managed to sell 21 cars for the whole year. Sure beats the 10 's of thousands of other models .

07-20-2007, 01:33 AM	#37 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 4,210 Thanks: 136 Thanked 112 Times in 107 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	Sorry l didn't mean they couldn't produce the cars , l meant they wouln't have the sales . Their largest market was already gone, the States. Yes the grey and red top are nearly the same but it was the red top in the MR2. True if you get a commodore and convert it to a HSV its not a HSV, and likewise putting a red top in a MR2 , but its still done .Why maybe because their locality didn't have the option . Each to their own . As far as the numbers are concerned it will take me time but l have all the vin numbers of red top MR2's made . They are skewed in amongst all the other versions made but l can number them. I chose the red top b/c i just wanted it, not bragging rights or anything like that. l love the MR2 and the N/A , and l wanted the most powerful STANDARD engine they made. Im totally restoring an immaculate 1999 , total strip and installing it with a totally brand new beams , all 972 pieces . Nuts may be, unique maybe BUT REALLY its because l love it and want a stock reliable MR2.

07-20-2007, 03:04 AM	#39 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 946 Thanks: 23 Thanked 56 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Well looking at the chassis code finding site: http://jnc.farpost.com/data/framno/sw20.html 2347 SW20s were produced in 1998. I think that the beams ones were produced from late 97 onwards, so there would be at least 2000 genuine beams mr2s floating around....

07-20-2007, 12:59 PM	#40 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 4,210 Thanks: 136 Thanked 112 Times in 107 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	What ive found is vin numbers encompasing the RED TOP BEAMS ARE from 0112000 to 0114559 therefore 2559 MR2's made total BUT in those numbers are a hjgh proportion of turbo motors. Then there is also a high percentage of Autos. I can spend weeks looking at every vin but surfice to say less than half are the RED TOP so 1000 units sounds correct but THEN take away the autos . So i would say approx 500 manuals ever made. That is a very short run in my books. Please if anyone knows any better let me know