VVTI and BOOST question!

[MR2enV]

I have a 91 hard top and I swapped a mkll 3sge in it because i didnt have the money for a beams (this was months ago) .......... Now I have enough money for the beams motor and tranny but my question is, can you turbo a beams without building it and how much power can be achived?

[|TwIsTeD|]

Without changing internals I really see no point. You can get a gen2/3 swap for LESS than a beams not including a turbo setup. The beams has high compression whereas with turbo it has less. One guy has done it and claimed to make 268rwhp with his turbo and did not mod the internals. His turbo setup is actually for sale if you search around.

It's like throwing on a turbo on the 5SFE....you just don't do it unless you upgrade the other areas. Hope this helps

[|TwIsTeD|]

Also, I'm pretty sure once you go turbo, you lose the VVT-i

[Roman]

Why would you want to lose the VVTI?

Late model evo engines (among other things) have the mitsi equivilent of VVTI, and supposedly makes it a lot better to drive off boost.

[pasqual]

3s-gte 4th gen VVT-i was in Caldina ST256:
......
In the late ’02 Caldina GT-T (ST256) you’ll find a fourth generation 3S-GTE boasting direct-fire ignition, a new intake manifold, revised engine internals and an integrated exhaust manifold/turbine housing. Curiously, you won’t find the VVTi system as fitted to atmo models. Power? A range-topping 191kW and 324Nm.




alltrac.net :: View topic - The truth about ST215 3sgte engine

[Roman]

Errrmmmmm.... what?

You say that it IS in the ST256, and then quote a post which says that it DOESNT have VVTI. Which it doesnt, in the ST215s at least. (which have the gen 4 3SGTE)

You could get the NA version which had an identical beams 3SGE engine to the celica/MR2s/etc, but without being painted red.

[pasqual]

..." In the late ’02 Caldina GT-T (ST256) you’ll find a fourth generation 3S-GTE boasting direct-fire ignition, a new intake manifold, revised engine internals and an integrated exhaust manifold/turbine housing. Curiously, you won’t find the VVTi system as fitted to atmo models. Power? A range-topping 191kW and 324Nm......

This is the source of this sentence ... Im not sure if there is VVT-i ...

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[Roman]

"Curiously, you won’t find the VVTi system as fitted to atmo models"

Which means.... The turbo versions *dont* have VVTI like the beams 3SGE engines do!

[MR2enV]

Down here where I live there is a rumor of a guy with a red top beams motor in a 86 corolla making 400+ hp..... they say its not built, I was just askin to see if it was possible

[puretone]

Originally Posted by |TwIsTeD|

It's like throwing on a turbo on the 5SFE....you just don't do it unless you upgrade the other areas. Hope this helps

what about a gen 4 turbo??

i think less than 8psi should be safe for RedTop BEAMS, as long as you do the fueling right.

My 5SFE (at 13 years of age mind you) has happy with a daily 12-14psi on STOCK internals....it never blew up no matter how hard i tried, no busted rings, no busted ring landings, no head lift, or bypass of any sort. It has toque-y as hell and wheelspin was my most common problem....lol

[MANDALAY]

Interesting PASQUAL yes there is a forth gen turbo in my EPC . Surely it will be soon that a turbo lover will do a swap in a MR2. Very similar lay out to the BEAMS that is injection ,throttle body,direct fire but no VVTi and 198 KW . Impressive from a stock 2 liter given its already 8 year technology

[PHOENIX]

Originally Posted by MR2enV

Down here where I live there is a rumor of a guy with a red top beams motor in a 86 corolla making 400+ hp..... they say its not built, I was just askin to see if it was possible

non turboed - Not possible

Turboed - even with internals and a well tuned engine, i don't think 400 is realistic without the bank roll of a small country.

[puretone]

Originally Posted by PHOENIX

non turboed - Not possible

Turboed - even with internals and a well tuned engine, i don't think 400 is realistic without the bank roll of a small country.

at the crank perhaps, with a thick headgasket, some mystery connecting rods that for some reason came out of the factory with much more strength that usual and the same for the pistons....good spark timing & some very cold dense air

[PHOENIX]

^are you talking about turbo or non turbo?

[puretone]

Originally Posted by PHOENIX

^are you talking about turbo or non turbo?

turbo, has to be...

[RST]

Considering turboing at the moment with stock internals depending on costs as there are extras like charge coolers probably needed -and a new ECU. But only a low boost pressure, say 6psi using a relatively small turbo. I know someone very much in the know who's half way doing it with std. internals and I've made contact with someone who has a mk 3 with the VVT-i (can't remember the engine code -ZZ or summit) who fitted one on the std. engine (no internal mods) and now gets 220Bhp up from 138'odd. The BEAMS might just push 250'odd without internal mods we thinks.

You can, as far as I'm aware keep the VVT-i (never been suggested otherwise to me) but Like I say not sure about costs and even if I did like the money, whether to stay N/A with itb's etc rather than turboing -after all, that was the point of me doing a BEAMS swap rather than 3SGTE.

If I go for it, everything'll be put up on the forum.

[Edophus]

to get an idea of turbo charging a beams engine take a look at the lexus forums, its very popular to turbo the altezza rs200, no problems with vvti, as i understand it vvti is an advantage in helping the turbo spool quicker if used correctly.

The altezza blacktop is even more agressivly na tuned than the redtop beams but they turbo quite well, how long they last though is another matter. Its expensive though and from an economical standpoint doesnt make any sense, as you can simply sell the beams engine, and have a nice chunk of money to buy a 3s-gte which will put out more power, more reliably, better off in both money and power.

I thought about turbo charging my beams redtop before but given i bought a 3sgte engine for a third of the price i could sell the beams for it seemed like madness, that engine is now due to go in another car of mine. And i'll be NA tuning the beams as i want to take part in some sprint competitions next year and stay in na class as i wont stand a chance against other big budget forced induction cars, hopefully it will also break less.

[RST]

I'm sure I saw 2 or 3 IS200's or 300's with 3L VVT-i's fitted with turbo's the other weekend at Barkstead Heath. Stupidly, I didn't ask as all I had in my mind was RS200 black tops (duuh). I assume they were transplants but maybe not -not too hot on the Altezza's.

I was looking at parts the other night and possible costs (complete guesses), not really a fan of 2n'd hand stuff so there's no doubt some savings that can be made:

LINK ECU with MAP sensor kit: £700'odd
Charge cooler set-up: £500-1k
Turbo manifold: £500
Rogue fan kit: £250
Fueling (pressure regulator): £150
Boost gauge: £50
Heat wrap: £50
New induction filter: £100

...so somewhere in the region of £2k+ excluding workshop and mapping rates. Suppose at the end of it you have a reliable VVT-i turbo set-up but with rev 3 3SGTE prices in mind it's a bit of an enthusiasts choice -but it'd be interesting to see how it drove as I think that's the reason why folk are doing it rather than the big turbo set-ups.

I haven't looked into staying N/A yet -anyone help with a shopping list?

[Toysrme]

The cams having vvt-i or not is itself irrelevant to the question of can it be used for forced induction.

Next question...

[Edophus]

Originally Posted by RST

I'm sure I saw 2 or 3 IS200's or 300's with 3L VVT-i's fitted with turbo's the other weekend at Barkstead Heath. Stupidly, I didn't ask as all I had in my mind was RS200 black tops (duuh). I assume they were transplants but maybe not -not too hot on the Altezza's.

I was looking at parts the other night and possible costs (complete guesses), not really a fan of 2n'd hand stuff so there's no doubt some savings that can be made:

LINK ECU with MAP sensor kit: £700'odd
Charge cooler set-up: £500-1k
Turbo manifold: £500
Rogue fan kit: £250
Fueling (pressure regulator): £150
Boost gauge: £50
Heat wrap: £50
New induction filter: £100

...so somewhere in the region of £2k+ excluding workshop and mapping rates. Suppose at the end of it you have a reliable VVT-i turbo set-up but with rev 3 3SGTE prices in mind it's a bit of an enthusiasts choice -but it'd be interesting to see how it drove as I think that's the reason why folk are doing it rather than the big turbo set-ups.

I haven't looked into staying N/A yet -anyone help with a shopping list?

I think if you work out what you pay to get close to turbo conversion power figures by staying NA, you'll be going turbo