Adjustable cam pulleys

[MANDALAY]

Rods are the same dimensions, hence also same crankshafts but the Turbo rods are thicker. Gee even the 2ZZ rods are thicker.
Ill check the EPC tonight

[DCKilla]

Can you swap over both of the vvti cam gears from the "black top" to the "red top" then use the "black top" ecu to run it? Could be an interesting experiment.

[Roman]

You'd need the exhaust side cam angle sensor and VVTI solenoid, there are provisions for these on the redtop block but just not machined to suit. So it could be possible I guess. But you'd also need the Altezza exhaust side camshaft, as single VVTI motor doesnt have cam angle sensor fins on the end of the camshaft.

It's a lot of work for not really any gain though.

And the ECU pinout is a bit different for blacktop, not plug and play swap unfortunately.

They have extra nonsense like electric throttle plate to contend with.

[Celica RA45]

heads are different same casting but exhaust from altezza wont fit

[MANDALAY]

Well ill be damn. I AM SO CONFUSED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The 3SGE N/A FROM 93 to 98 not including the beams has the same rods as the Turbo
13201-79425 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So the N/A is just as strong as the TURBO
The Beams red top and black top are different NUMBERS
tHE RED TOP 13201-79416 THEN THE LAST 6 MONTHS 13201-79417 02/99
and beat this
WHEN the turbo continued in the CALDINA GUESS WHAT the rods are the same as the BEAMS RED TOP. 13201-79417

SO Toyota must off calculated that those rods are strong enough for the turbo
What the caldina must have >13 psi factory ?

[Servin]

Not a big surprise. I am 100% positive the rods are strong enough for some good boost. There is no way Toyota would make a High HP NA 4 with weak rods esp with the BEAMS being their technological forefront at the time.


I need to get a gen4 3SGTE and see what all is the same between it and the BEAMS.

[MANDALAY]

CELICA ST205 13201-79425
CELICA ST215 13201-79417

[MANDALAY]

Well i could be building a short block for no reason since when i bought the short block it would have been their last version thus the same internals as a Caldina !

[Servin]

Yeah I always felt like the BEAMS could handle some good amounts of boost in stock state. Though ordering another short block wasn't a bad idea nothing wrong with being too safe. I mean the blacktops run boost with even higher compression and their motors are 90% identical to ours.

[MANDALAY]

Now im pissed offffffffffffff the 3SGTE ST246 2007 CALDINA HAS THE SAME RODS AS THE RED TOP BEAMS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what we have here is the turbo and N/A having the same rods.
Then the beams comes along they change the rods. The SW20 turbo finishes
the celica continues with st215 has the beams rods
then the calinda till now continues with the same rods. SHEEEEEEEEEEEEETT

[MANDALAY]

So who's crapping along that the red top cant handle good boost. Ill bet it wont be long before a calinda makes its way into a MR2 and boosted up.

Correction its been done Ricky B 400 hp with race fuel.
The Caldina is 9:1 CR

So im really thinking now

was going to go with 9.5 : 1 with all forged maybe 10 : 1 ????????

[Servin]

I would've stuck with 11:1

[Roman]

Nah bugger that, if you're going for custom pistons make them 8:1 or 9:1.

You'll be kicking yourself later if you make it high compression.

[MANDALAY]

Roman, well the Caldina is already 9:1 and its turboed , and ill have to say its over 13psi
So realistically 9.5:1 as PHOENIX did also looks reasonable, given ill have a maximum of 13 psi since its a SC set up.

[Roman]

Those caldinas are notorious for their fragile engines, in comparison to earlier 3SGTEs.

Plenty of boat anchors here, formerly known as gen 4 3sgtes with cracked ringlands or bent rods. (Mostly broken pistons though, probably in no small part to people running them on crappy gas though)

Personally if I were to look to any 3SGTE for measurements etc I'd look at what the gen 3 does, or aftermarket gen 3 bits that make good HP and are strong/reliable.

Although given that the head design is different, who can say for sure.

Although another interesting point, the TOMS 280T Altezza still used 11.5:1 compression with a turbo setup I guess...

The beams head design is different to any other 3S, so perhaps its capable of a higher static compression ratio with similar mods than other 3S engines.

You can also raise or lower the dynamic compression ratio by adjusting intake cam angle, so I guess that helps a bit.

[MANDALAY]

^ well maybe that fragility is due to the thinner rods ?

[oldsoul45]

Thought it was a piston and valve problem with the caldinas....don't know of any bottom end problems

[d8vyr]

hi guys, i spoke to an engineer/engine builder today who has been running a beams in his non altezza racecar for years and it turns out he runs adjustable cam pulleys and has removed the vvti... so i suppose it does prove that adjustable pulleys can be run on a beams

[Roman]

Yeah there's no doubting that it's possible... The argument is whether or not it's worthwhile.

Here in NZ, they ran a series of Altezza touring cars, where race regulations said they werent allowed VVTI or similar.

So big cams, 'adjustable' pulleys.

With a class restricted 10:1 compression, they had them making 250hp.

The point is, that when you remove it, you are spending money for the sake of losing a decent chunk of your powerband.

I can understand that some people want to run a cheaper ECU without VVTI functionality, but given that in this instance you need to end up spending more than the difference on adjustable pulleys, it still doesnt make any sense to do so.

You still need time on the dyno to set up adjustable cam gears, takes less time to adjust it via ECU settings than it does adjusting pulleys by hand.