Difference between 3SGEs

Protok · 05-15-2009, 10:32 AM

This is a question I do not think I have ever seen answered but what is the actual difference between the generations of 3SGE. A lot of people say that if you remove the vvti from the beams then it will just revert to a normal 3SGE.
What are the differences between them? Valves, Injectors, VVTi, CR, Camshafts - they all seem to be different but what else is there?

mr2nv · 05-15-2009, 11:20 AM

The biggest difference between the beams and the earlier 3sge's is probably the head(vvti, flow) and COP ignition. The block is probably better as well.

Edophus · 05-15-2009, 12:53 PM

The head is the biggest difference, if you have both together you'd be forgiven for thinking there from different engines, cams are different, valves are larger, it has a different valve angle ( the whole head is much narrower), which means the combustion chamber is different, so different pistons aswell. None of these parts are interchangable i beleive.

The block is similar but its reckoned the beams blocks are the last revision of the 3s-ge's and are the same block you get if you order a motorsport 3s block from toyota ( i think there thicker walled but cant find the info to confirm this). You have piston oil squirters which the non turbo 3s engines dont have i believe. no dizzy, so cop, and the vvti itself, i think its fair to say the differences are enough that it could have been given a different designation but its still an S block engine at its core, if folk think just removing vvti makes it the same i'd say they just dont really know the differences. Even without vvti, i think you could set the cam timing to get the same peak hp, just you'd lose power throughout the rest of the range.

I||ICIT · 05-16-2009, 10:41 PM

is the compression different through diff head or diff pistons?

Servin · 05-18-2009, 09:29 PM

One is pronounced BEAMS and the other 3SGE....

Protok · 05-19-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servin

One is pronounced BEAMS and the other 3SGE....

Actually if you are going to say that, one is BEAMS and the other is LASRE..............

puretone · 05-20-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protok

Actually if you are going to say that, one is BEAMS and the other is LASRE..............

LASRE? This one? LASRE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm an aerospace geek, but never thought to see it on this board....

SW21T · 05-20-2009, 02:32 AM

Don't mean to thread jack.
Would the beams head fit on the 5s??

MANDALAY · 05-20-2009, 02:34 AM

In a word NA

puretone · 05-20-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YELLOW_MR2

Don't mean to thread jack.
Would the beams head fit on the 5s??

NEVAR!!1!

SW21T · 05-20-2009, 02:42 AM

Ok thank you, Just curious

Protok · 05-20-2009, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puretone

LASRE? This one? LASRE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm an aerospace geek, but never thought to see it on this board....

No, LASRE = Lightweight Advanced Super Respone Engine.
Like BEAMS = Breakthrough Engine with Advanced Mechanism System

LASRE was just the codename before VVT-i was applied.

pasqual · 05-20-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protok

No, LASRE = Lightweight Advanced Super Respone Engine.
Like BEAMS = Breakthrough Engine with Advanced Mechanism System

LASRE was just the codename before VVT-i was applied.

according Toyota: 3S-GE is not LASRE

Environmental Report abbreviation

####

LASRE(Light-weight Advanced Super Response Engine)
A series of small, light-weight engines Toyota developed in the 1980s which achieved improved running and reduced fuel consumption.

######

Protok · 05-20-2009, 07:57 AM

The gen 1 & 2 3SGE were created in the 1980s so I do not see how its not LASRE.
It is a high revving engine, the same as the 4AGE.

pasqual · 05-20-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protok

The gen 1 & 2 3SGE were created in the 1980s so I do not see how its not LASRE.
It is a high revving engine, the same as the 4AGE.

"A series" of small, light-weight engines

3S is S series ??

am I wrong ??

Protok · 05-20-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pasqual

"A series" of small, light-weight engines

3S is S series ??

am I wrong ??

It isn't saying it is the A series but a series, as in a group of engines.

puretone · 05-20-2009, 03:51 PM

I don't know guys, but I prefer my LASRE, much more boost

Roman · 05-20-2009, 05:45 PM

Toyota started with their stupid bacronyms long before the 3S...

Comes from the time when they were struggling to plaster enough TWIN CAM or TURBO or whatever else stickers all over the cars.

Even the 1C diesel, lol.

Not sure if the early 3S counts, I'm pretty sure they grew out of this by that stage

(until they went all silly with the ZOMG BEAMS MOTOR)

Either way, having a stupid acronym (or not) does not physically change a motor from good to bad, or vice versa.

puretone · 05-20-2009, 11:08 PM

3T-GTE is a helluva motor guys, still is able to build huge boost....

"BEAMS" never got plastered on any cars

, untill of course I came around and made mine Celica BEAMS GT

Protok · 05-21-2009, 03:04 AM

Do have to admit the lasre logo is quite a bit better than the beams logo. If only it was as easy as creating a new logo myself.

05-15-2009, 10:32 AM	#1 (permalink)
Protok Beams Owners Group Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: England, UK Posts: 457 Thanks: 15 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Difference between 3SGEs This is a question I do not think I have ever seen answered but what is the actual difference between the generations of 3SGE. A lot of people say that if you remove the vvti from the beams then it will just revert to a normal 3SGE. What are the differences between them? Valves, Injectors, VVTi, CR, Camshafts - they all seem to be different but what else is there?

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05-15-2009, 11:20 AM	#2 (permalink)
mr2nv Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 179 Thanks: 0 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	The biggest difference between the beams and the earlier 3sge's is probably the head(vvti, flow) and COP ignition. The block is probably better as well.

05-15-2009, 12:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Edophus Beams Owners Group Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 370 Thanks: 8 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The head is the biggest difference, if you have both together you'd be forgiven for thinking there from different engines, cams are different, valves are larger, it has a different valve angle ( the whole head is much narrower), which means the combustion chamber is different, so different pistons aswell. None of these parts are interchangable i beleive. The block is similar but its reckoned the beams blocks are the last revision of the 3s-ge's and are the same block you get if you order a motorsport 3s block from toyota ( i think there thicker walled but cant find the info to confirm this). You have piston oil squirters which the non turbo 3s engines dont have i believe. no dizzy, so cop, and the vvti itself, i think its fair to say the differences are enough that it could have been given a different designation but its still an S block engine at its core, if folk think just removing vvti makes it the same i'd say they just dont really know the differences. Even without vvti, i think you could set the cam timing to get the same peak hp, just you'd lose power throughout the rest of the range.

05-16-2009, 10:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
I\|\|ICIT Some Skills Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 50 Thanks: 22 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	is the compression different through diff head or diff pistons?

05-18-2009, 09:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Servin Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 1,250 Thanks: 13 Thanked 54 Times in 42 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	One is pronounced BEAMS and the other 3SGE....

05-20-2009, 02:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
SW21T 400HP 3rd gen?? Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Washington St Posts: 1,853 Thanks: 143 Thanked 32 Times in 30 Posts iTrader Rating: (18/100% )	Don't mean to thread jack. Would the beams head fit on the 5s??

05-20-2009, 02:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 4,210 Thanks: 136 Thanked 112 Times in 107 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	In a word NA

05-20-2009, 02:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
SW21T 400HP 3rd gen?? Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Washington St Posts: 1,853 Thanks: 143 Thanked 32 Times in 30 Posts iTrader Rating: (18/100% )	Ok thank you, Just curious

05-20-2009, 07:57 AM	#14 (permalink)
Protok Beams Owners Group Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: England, UK Posts: 457 Thanks: 15 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	The gen 1 & 2 3SGE were created in the 1980s so I do not see how its not LASRE. It is a high revving engine, the same as the 4AGE.

05-20-2009, 03:51 PM	#17 (permalink)
puretone Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Aruba, #1 BEAMS Engine on the Island Posts: 2,339 Thanks: 28 Thanked 57 Times in 56 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I don't know guys, but I prefer my LASRE, much more boost

05-20-2009, 05:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 946 Thanks: 23 Thanked 56 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Toyota started with their stupid bacronyms long before the 3S... Comes from the time when they were struggling to plaster enough TWIN CAM or TURBO or whatever else stickers all over the cars. Even the 1C diesel, lol. Not sure if the early 3S counts, I'm pretty sure they grew out of this by that stage (until they went all silly with the ZOMG BEAMS MOTOR) Either way, having a stupid acronym (or not) does not physically change a motor from good to bad, or vice versa.

05-20-2009, 11:08 PM	#19 (permalink)
puretone Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Aruba, #1 BEAMS Engine on the Island Posts: 2,339 Thanks: 28 Thanked 57 Times in 56 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	3T-GTE is a helluva motor guys, still is able to build huge boost.... "BEAMS" never got plastered on any cars , untill of course I came around and made mine Celica BEAMS GT

05-21-2009, 03:04 AM	#20 (permalink)
Protok Beams Owners Group Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: England, UK Posts: 457 Thanks: 15 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Do have to admit the lasre logo is quite a bit better than the beams logo. If only it was as easy as creating a new logo myself.