Why turbo a BEAMS?

[nailmonkey]

Hi All,

I'm sure we've all seen posts where people say "Why turbo a BEAMS?" hopefully my experience will help to change this to "Why not turbo a BEAMS?".

I was going to wait a while to post about this engine as the development work is not finished and also, it's not really my project - it's Patricks. However, he is as keen as I am to show the results as a lot of people seem to doubt it would work.

Having owned a Rev(Gen)3 MR2 turbo for nearly 4 years now and covered 55k miles in it, I wasn't looking for a new engine, but as we had two MR2's and no 'sensible' car one of the MR2's had to go, which was the N/A BEAMS. We'd already bought a nice hatchback as a replacement car so the BEAMS car had to go quickly or I would have to take out a new insurance policy, this coincided with Patrick from Rogue selling his own fully built, Red Top Turbo. A deal was reached and I became the owner of the turbo engine and some four weeks later my car went into Rogue Motorsport to have the new engine fitted. The car was with Rogue for seven long weeks, mainly due to the amount of custom work that had to be done to fit the engine and also the wiring (but also because I'm a difficult customer and had several special requests!).

I've had the car back for about 2 weeks now and covered about 1000 miles, this car is my only car and I do a lot of miles. It's not a show car or a trailer queen, it gets driven a lot and it gets driven hard. The first week, honestly, I loved it about 50% of the time and hated it the other 50%, this was mainly due to the uprated clutch. This week, I'm much better with the clutch and the split is probably 99% love!

So what is it like to drive? It's odd, but it retains mainy of the characteristics of a beams engine, the power delivery is very similar, there's just a lot more of it! It sounds almost the same, when I heard it on the dyno, I said to Patrick "Wow, it still sounds like a BEAMS!" To which Patrick replied "A BEAMS on steroids!". Whilst at the dyno, I got to see my plot overlayed on a standard (but fully rebuilt 3SGTE with a GT3070 turbo), we both make the same peak power but mine comes in 1000rpm earlier all the way up to 6000RPM.

I guess the other strange thing about how it drives is, as there is minimal lag, the car doesn't feel that fast, it's not like other 350RWHP MR2's with lag-lag-lag-POWER. It's quite deceptive, you have to keep an eye on the speedo, it's going up almost as quick as the rev counter, so you're in license losing territory very quickly. The engine also loves to rev high, I've found myself automatically using one gear lower than I would before to accomodate this.

Anyway, on to the specifications. You probably know most of this from the for sale ad but I've filled in additional items specific to my car.

Redtop Beams 3SGE
- 86.5mm Wossner forged pistons, custom
- Eagle con-rods
- ACL Main Bearings
- ACL Big End Bearings
- ACL Thrust Bearings
- ARP main bolts
- Toyota Oil Filter
- Toyota BEAMS Gasket Set
- Rogue Oil Cooler Bypass
- ARP Headstuds
- BEAMS Cambelt

Fuel system
- 700cc top feed injectors
- 255 / hr fuel pump
- FSE Fuel Pressure Regulator inc gauge
- Inline bullet fuel filter

Turbocharger Assembly
- GT2860RS Turbocharger (0.60 AR)
- Custom BEAMS 4 - 1 stainless steel tubular manifold
- Custom 2.5" downpipe

Engine management
- Link G3 XLEM ECU
- Link G3 XLEM extended Loom kit

Transmission
- My 100k mile E153 gearbox
- OS Giken single plate clutch and light weight flywheel
- Royal Purple gear oil (not very common on the UK MR2 scene)

The main difference from the original plan is the use of 2.5" pipe for the downpipe rather than 3". This is because I wanted to retain the air-con compressor as a) I'd just paid £500 to have a new air-con radiator fitted b) it's a bonus when you're stuck in traffic in summer! You can see how close to the downpipe the compressor is in one of the photographs, it's virtually touching. It goes to show that you don't necessarily need 3" pipes to flow 400BHP. It's also worth noting that the car is running a standard turbo exhaust, not sure what the highest BHP is that has been pushed through the standard exhaust before....

As the car is running a 2.5bar LINK map sensor, I'm currently stuck at 1.5bar of positive pressure, the turbo will still be in its efficiency island at 2bar and the manifold has been pressure tested to 2bar as well, so maybe that's something for the future. The boost is currently being controlled by my old Greddy ProfecB SpecII but when the car is remapped it will be switched so that is controlled by the ECU. Pressure is discharged via a HKS SSQV.

Charge cooling is taken care of by the ST205 chargecooler that was fitted to my car before, it has the ST205 core and pump and a Fiat rad up front. This had to be sent away to have brackets welded on to mount it in the new location; the end result is that it looks almost stock!

The air filter is a BMC carbon dynamics item, which is a cone filter surrounded by carbon fibre. This had to be relocated to the right-hand side of the car due to the charge cooler. Matt from Rogue fabricated brackets for it and a shroud over the intake. It looks great and gets nothing but cold air! We had planned to reuse my ARC induction box, but it wouldn't fit.

Some of my additional requests were to have the aftermarket oil temp and oil pressure sensors connected to the ECU, so that I don't have to have hundreds of gauges in the car, just the Link Displaylink (if it ever arrives from New Zealand!). This did mean taking the sump off again as I wasn't happy using a sandwich plate, so the sump was tapped and a boss welded on. The pressure feed is T'ed off the same location as the stock sensor in the head. Even my Revision 6 engine lids fans are controlled via the ECU (based on coolant temps)!

Time for some pics!



















So what's next? I've just received a Berk Technology exhaust so that will be going on, the car will need to be remapped and the boost controlled by the ECU. The cam cover and inlet manifold need to be repainted as they seem to have had a bad reaction to the heat (you may remember they were white at one point). I've got the stickers to put on once this is done. Any questions let me know.

Thanks for reading,

Nik

[Roman]

Awesome!

[MANDALAY]

Very nice.
Can you get more info on the injectors . What brand and are they using the stock rail.
And the CR of the new pistons

[mr220v]

I'd be interested to compare these numbers to Gen4 3sgte. We should have those in a few days. The lag on the gen4 is much improved over the gen3.

[Servin]

Wow very impressive! May I link this to other boards?

[puretone]

OH YES OH YES OOOOOOOOOOOOH YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!

okay 'nuff with the dirty....

I had suspected this would happen if a BEAMS met up with the mighty Disco Potato....I had no way of confirming my suspicions on this tho....now you did it all for me

I would like to know the CR, compression ratio, that MANDALAY is asking for as well....altho it sounds like it pretty close to OEM. As well as the fuel rail you are using, altho I heard from all over that our (BEAMS, 3SGE, 3SGTE, 5SFE) fuel rail is good for flowing enough fuel to provide 500hp....
What pressure is the FPR set at?
Brand injectors? Wild guess RC Injectors?
As a side note, it would be HUGELY handy if we had the part numbers to the ACL/ARP/Eagle parts...the pistons of course are the magic number but they are custom anyways....perhaps the manufacturer was nice enough to keep the specs. My guess is if we know the compression ratio we will know what the pistons look like....

Observation: if you want a kick-ass OEM-looking exhaust, have a look at Vibrant Performance, they are really kick-butt, I have one, looks totally OEM, no-one can figure it out, and its a super clean fit & seriously deep rumble

Looks like I'm gonna build up my BEAMS after all now, oh gawd!!!!!!!!!!1111!`

[PHOENIX]

well I'm ****ing jealous

[puretone]

Originally Posted by PHOENIX

well I'm ****ing jealous

quit gawking and get your ducks in order, you've been slacking for much longer than MANDALAY has on his supercharger build, which btw I suspect will make power figures of around what this guy is getting.....should MANDALAY man-up and turn up the boost!! (Hey MANDALAY: is it done yet?)

BTW did you ever get your missing shipment figured out??

[MANDALAY]

Hey Be fair Rogue started on this a longggggggggggg time ago.
I know the compression is down last time i talked to Patric but forgot to write it down. Ithink its around 8.5

[puretone]

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

Hey Be fair Rogue started on this a longggggggggggg time ago.
I know the compression is down last time i talked to Patric but forgot to write it down. Ithink its around 8.5

soooo, just to clarify it's not done yet?

[Edophus]

thanks for sharing this with us, cant wait to see it progress from here!.

[nailmonkey]

Hi,

Thank you for all for the positive comments.

I'll try to answer the questions where I can but I don't know any part numbers...

I don't know what brand the injectors are but I do know it's a stock fuel rail, in fact I seem to remember that Rogue use NA fuel rails for all of their big-power 3SGTE builds.

MANDALAY was close with the compression ratio, it's 8.6 so actually lower than a Gen3 3SGTE (8.8)!

Not sure how it would compare to a Gen4 3SGTE (assuming this is the one from the Caldina?) we never got those over here and no one seems to bother importing them. After looking on google it seems that there aren't any major differences over a Gen3 apart from a few things like coil packs?

puretone: Thanks for the tip about the exhaust, I'd never heard of Vibrant before. TBH, I'd be happy leaving the stock exhaust on, it's plenty loud enough and helps with the sleeper look. However, my Berk exhaust has arrived now and this is supposed to be one of the most free-flowing exhausts but still nice and quiet.

Servin: You can link the post if you like, it's out in the open now.

Thanks,

Nik

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by nailmonkey

Not sure how it would compare to a Gen4 3SGTE (assuming this is the one from the Caldina?) we never got those over here and no one seems to bother importing them. After looking on google it seems that there aren't any major differences over a Gen3 apart from a few things like coil packs?

The gen4 uses all the same pickups and sensors that the beams does with the exception of the gen4 using a map sensor instead of the maf.

The one we have running (on stock electronics) seems to enjoy a significant lag reduction over the gen3. I would imagine part of this comes from improved electronics, and the rest from 9:1 comp. It would have been nice if the 3sgte had received vvti like the 1/2jzgte did though.

I've looked at running this ecu with the beams potentially. Of course there's no control for the vvti. The purists don't like it, but it could be controlled by rpm activated switch giving you simple vvt. That, or you could potentially use a powerfc.

[puretone]

Originally Posted by nailmonkey

Hi,

I'll try to answer the questions where I can but I don't know any part numbers...

MANDALAY was close with the compression ratio, it's 8.6 so actually lower than a Gen3 3SGTE (8.8)!

puretone: Thanks for the tip about the exhaust, I'd never heard of Vibrant before. TBH, I'd be happy leaving the stock exhaust on, it's plenty loud enough and helps with the sleeper look. However, my Berk exhaust has arrived now and this is supposed to be one of the most free-flowing exhausts but still nice and quiet.

Any chance you can spam whoever did the build & beg them for the part #'s? They must have something lying around related to this build....just in case they ever do it again...

8 point freaking 8?! HOLY HELL that's LOW! Fact that there is not very noticeable lag must mean that that Disco Potato is spooling up way early, I wonder....

The exhausts from Vibrant, the Street Power ones in flat black, give you that totally OEM look, yet they are straight through with perforated core, so pretty quiet but you wouldn't guess that it's aftermarket exhaust Though my exhaust from the exhaust headers on back is custom.

Who built your manifold by the way? It looks really well done & TIG welded, pretty impressive. It's seriously enticing, besides that I have all the materials & the same amount of 316SS pipes & elbows (48.5mm ID) sitting at home waiting to be welded into a manifold similar to yours. I wonder if this same/size manifold will work on the Celica engine bay

[DCKilla]

Since the CR was changed to 8.6, would that mean it became non-interference? I imagine the shape of the piston would have something to do with that also.

[nailmonkey]

Originally Posted by mr220v

The gen4 uses all the same pickups and sensors that the beams does with the exception of the gen4 using a map sensor instead of the maf.

The one we have running (on stock electronics) seems to enjoy a significant lag reduction over the gen3. I would imagine part of this comes from improved electronics, and the rest from 9:1 comp. It would have been nice if the 3sgte had received vvti like the 1/2jzgte did though.

I've looked at running this ecu with the beams potentially. Of course there's no control for the vvti. The purists don't like it, but it could be controlled by rpm activated switch giving you simple vvt. That, or you could potentially use a powerfc.

Cool, I'd love to see a dyno from a Gen4 3SGTE!!

[nailmonkey]

Originally Posted by puretone

Any chance you can spam whoever did the build & beg them for the part #'s? They must have something lying around related to this build....just in case they ever do it again...

8 point freaking 8?! HOLY HELL that's LOW! Fact that there is not very noticeable lag must mean that that Disco Potato is spooling up way early, I wonder....

The exhausts from Vibrant, the Street Power ones in flat black, give you that totally OEM look, yet they are straight through with perforated core, so pretty quiet but you wouldn't guess that it's aftermarket exhaust Though my exhaust from the exhaust headers on back is custom.

Who built your manifold by the way? It looks really well done & TIG welded, pretty impressive. It's seriously enticing, besides that I have all the materials & the same amount of 316SS pipes & elbows (48.5mm ID) sitting at home waiting to be welded into a manifold similar to yours. I wonder if this same/size manifold will work on the Celica engine bay

TBH, I think you've got as much chance as I have of getting the part numbers from Rogue i.e. little to none!

The compression ratio is actually 8.6, the 8.8 is for a stock gen3 3SGTE. The turbo is definately a good choice though, putting a GT30 series on a 3SGTE is fine but the engine just doesn't flow enough gas until higher in the rev range to get is moving hence the lag. The BEAMS does have a lot of other advantages over the Gen3 though such as the inlet manifold, velocity stacks, larger valves, etc.

The manifold is very nice but I'm not allowed to tell you who made it

Nik

[MANDALAY]

Im curious why Rogue went so low. Maybe they were setting it up for mega boost ?
Phoenix went with 9.5.
Since the Calinda is 9:1 and has the same rods as the Beams and Rogue put Forges on its really weird that they would go lower ????
Can you find out if there is any retardation because of knocking ? and what are your FR .
Myself and other members are really interested in these facts

[nailmonkey]

Originally Posted by DCKilla

Since the CR was changed to 8.6, would that mean it became non-interference? I imagine the shape of the piston would have something to do with that also.

Sort of, even with the lower compression ratio and custom pistons the engine would still be interference but the VVTI mechanism has been restricted slightly so that it's not posible to bend a valve during mapping. I think how it works is the engine is now non-interference when on the 'small' cam but would be interference on the 'big' cam if the VVTI wasn't restricted.

HTH,

Nik

[MANDALAY]

Originally Posted by nailmonkey

TBH, I think you've got as much chance as I have of getting the part numbers from Rogue i.e. little to none!

The compression ratio is actually 8.6, the 8.8 is for a stock gen3 3SGTE. The turbo is definately a good choice though, putting a GT30 series on a 3SGTE is fine but the engine just doesn't flow enough gas until higher in the rev range to get is moving hence the lag. The BEAMS does have a lot of other advantages over the Gen3 though such as the inlet manifold, velocity stacks, larger valves, etc.

The manifold is very nice but I'm not allowed to tell you who made it

Nik

Wit till Purtone reads this line

"The manifold is very nice but I'm not allowed to tell you who made it " LOL