gen 5 SW20 vs Type R vs NA silvia

[Roman]

Heh, I stumbled across some footage of a gen 5 SW20 vs. a type R vs. a silva.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...64262714232166

Although it gets pwned by the Integra.

However that's undoubtably due to the lardy gen 5 Shell, they weigh in the region of 1200kgs+ EDIT: The board on the movie says 1220kgs. ouch! (as opposed to mine, which is 1025kgs)

Anyway enough excuses on behalf of the MR2.
I'd heard about this clip before, but never seen it.

[ZMR2]

You know for a fact that a gen 5....?

[jerzefigga]

it says 3SGE, so if it were the turbo version all of those cars wouldve been pwned

[PHOENIX]

i think in a course like that, aside from the silvia, its the driver. The MR2 was taking those corners extremely wide as the Type R was getting close to those corners gaining time. The Mr2 could of easily taken the Type R in this situation. But again i reiterate that this is the driver, not the car.

[Sirc]

If this is what I think it is, it's the video from Legend of Type R and if I remember correctly, it was raining like crazy right before that.

[Roman]

Originally Posted by PHOENIX

i think in a course like that, aside from the silvia, its the driver. The MR2 was taking those corners extremely wide as the Type R was getting close to those corners gaining time. The Mr2 could of easily taken the Type R in this situation. But again i reiterate that this is the driver, not the car.

I'd say it's a bit of both.

Yep it was interesting to see that the SW20 was taking the corners much wider than the teg.

Personally I've got a lot of respect for the Type R DC2, it's a great vehicle. Who would have thought a front wheel drive could do so well.

I think that a DC2 type R and the gen 5 are a pretty close match.

If you've got an SW20 that weighs as much as a DC2 however, with a gen 5 engine, things change.

Weight is the biggest enemy of NA cars, and the type R had a 200kg+ advantage over both of the other cars.
I dont think the gen 5 did too badly considering.

I've driven a standard Gen 5, and it felt a whole world apart from my car. Weight loss can make all the difference.

And yes it would make a lot of sense that it was a gen 5, it was versus a 1998ish DC2, and a Silvia from the same era.
And it had gen 5 spoiler, and it said on the board that it made 200ps.

[WFX]

Not a bad video and I think the MR2 did do quite well considering his corners were wider yes and he was still keeping up with if not in front of the Type R for most of the video!

[Roman]

Alright well here's how I see it. (long rant ahead, haha)

Off the line, the SW20 got a slightly better start; as is to be expected, with the MR layout, vs. an FF.
The Type R has pretty long legs however, and quickly regained lost ground.
The advantage on initial corner entry into the first right hander went to the SW20, taking an aggressive inside line.
However as the race progressed, the Type R creeped up the inside on the straights, with superior straight line accelleration. To the extent that when the SW20 took a wider line to swing into the corner, the Type R crept up the inside under braking, and blocked the SW20 from it's optimal racing line.
The Type R then capatalised on this advantage, and pushed the SW20 further out on the track.
Mid way through the race, the SW20 and Type R were literally neck and neck, with the SW20 forced to take a further compromised line. Cornering speed seemed surprisingly similar, considering the SW was rather compromised.
It held its ground valiantly, but was inevitably forced to concede to the Type R.
Once the Type R was in the lead, it could further capitalise on its superior straight line speed, and creep ahead on the straights.
The frustration was clearly visible on the SW driver, hitting the steering wheel, wishing the car had a bit more power. (Or more to the point, a bit less weight!)
2/3s of the way through, the Type R is clearly in the lead.
However now that the SW20 was free to take an uncompromised line, it regained some time.

In my opinion, the better car won on the day.
The Type R's ability to utilise it's 200kg advantage, brake up the inside of the SW, and force it to take a wider line, is what made all the difference here.
I dont doubt that if each of the cars were allowed a 'hotlap', the lap times may have been different, perhaps in favour of the SW20.
However the interaction between the cars on the track in this scenario, favoured the integra. This wasnt down to poor driving on the behalf of the SW, so much as the Type R being able to force the SW20 into a compromised position.

Undoubtably in my mind, the outcome of this race came down to weight.
If there was an SW20 equivilent to the Type R, (Stripped down version, no AC, no sound deadening, hand built engine with higher redline, etc) I dont doubt that it would have come out on top.
However in standard trim, the gen 5 SW20 is quite generously optioned in most cases, with side intrusion bars, airbags, sound deadening, air conditioning, etc. It's indicated weight clearly agrees with this, at 1220kgs.
(Compared to the 1050kg or so Type R!)

I doubt very much that there's any factory model NA SW20 that could give a DC2 Type R a run for it's money.

Not that it matters....

Most of the people that frequent this section of the forum, are interested in getting the best of both worlds; swapping the powerful gen 5 engine, into the light gen 1-2 shell.

In this form, it's clear in my mind that the SW would have come out on top.

Either way, I found it to be an entertaining race, it was quite exciting to see how closely matched the two cars actually were.

[Roman]

Oh, I just saw what the point of this video was.....

They're trying to outrun the turbo S14!

It's meant to show how the new NA cars are fairly decent I think.

[Node]

That was no turbo S14. It was a NA SR20-DE, not all the S14's in japan were turbo.

IMO the MR2 was faster than the integra on that track. The MR2 was wide and did not appear to be understeering. His line was all @$#ed up. Ill chalk that one up to driver error. But having driven the teg I will say its no joke on a very tight course.

[Primuf]

Looks to me like the S14 _was_ a turbo.

It appear that on the chart shown at the start, the S14 is the column furthest to the right, with the mr2 in the middle, leaving the Type R as the first column.

Power: the first two columns have what appears to be 200 @ 8000rpm and 200 @ 7000rpm for the power section which falls in line with B18C and 3sge beams, while the one furthest to the right has 220 @ 6000rpm, which is right for a SR20DET

Torque: the first two columns have what appears to be 19kg/m @ 6000 rpm and 21 kg/m torque, which is again suited B18C and 3sge BEAMS respectively, while the column on the right has what looks like 28kg/m @ 4800rpm, which is again right for an SR20DET.

[jinraiden]

Originally Posted by Node

That was no turbo S14. It was a NA SR20-DE, not all the S14's in japan were turbo...

Non-turbo Silvias? Uh...

[Node]

Originally Posted by jinraiden

Non-turbo Silvias? Uh...

Indeed

So I stand corrected, that must have been a turbo

For that year I have found

165hp SR20DE (non turbo model)
250hp SR20DET

[Roman]

Yep there's turbo and non turbo silvias for every year/generation, well, from S12 onwards at least, dunno about before that.

[Roman]

Aaaaah, I've found another video clip, which looks like the section that goes before this, explaining what they did to the cars. It has some footage of some sweet sideways SW action, haha.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ot+version+mr2