GUIDE: Cost effective beams swap!

[Roman]

Well... This seems to come up every now and then.

People complaining that the beams engine is too rare/expensive.

So here's my guide, on how to go about getting a 200+hp 3SGE, for the least amount of money!

Firstly, the gearbox: Your standard gearbox is more than fine. LSD is fun, but definitely not needed.
Standard hubs/axles/etc are fine too.


Clutch: You cant use a 5SFE clutch/flywheel.
One from a gen 2 or gen 3 3SGE is fine. (note: gen 1 3S clutch will not work!)
The PCD of the flywheel bolts/crank is slightly larger on the 3S.

You can use a 3SGTE clutch cover plate and flywheel, but you need the clutch disk from a certain type of Hilux to make it work. As the input shaft spline diameter is different between turbo and NA gearboxes.
Although of course if you're running a turbo gearbox (Which I dont reccomend) You need a clutch disc to suit an E153 gearbox.

Engine:
Alright this is a big call, but: Screw the redtop!
Basically, you're paying a premium for an engine that isnt as rare as people make it out to be, and, according to CelicaRA45, who has had one of each and pulled them apart, the ONLY DIFFERENCE to a caldina 'greytop' engine, is the fact that the rocker covers arent red.
Worth an extra $3k? I dont think so!
UPDATE: I've now learnt, that there is a difference between the redtop and greytop models... The greytops have the catalytic converter built into the headers! As opposed to near the muffler for the SW20 and Celica. Which probably accounts for the 10hp difference. So get a decent set of headers, and you'll more than likely get your 10hp back.

Caldina GTs are fairly common, definitely a lot moreso than SS2 celicas, or gen 5 SW20s! I see one at least once a day here in NZ.
Look to get one imported from a country like New Zealand, I think you'll pay less of a premium for the engine/shipping than from Japan.
Also Caldina GTs are getting to the age where they are no longer in Japan all that much, so countries like NZ are getting flooded with them.


Wiring/ECU.
Okay, now here's the biggest problem with running a Caldina engine.
Basically, they're all autos.
I dont know how expensive a wiring loom is to suit an SW20 from toyota, but I'd imagine it's prohibitively expensive.
I'm not sure how hard it is to run it with a manual transmission, as I've never tried. I believe there's a way you can fool the auto trans computer with resistors or some such thing.

UPDATE: The way to go about this, is to earth out the pin that leads to the auto trans, which makes it think that the car is in neutral. I'm not sure which pin exactly this is, but that's how you do it. There's a guy in oz running a caldina beams auto engine in his AW11, and this is what he did.

The biggest advantage of getting a beams engine from an SW20 to swap into an SW20, is that the wiring is all virtually plug and play, barring one or two small items which are easy to solve. (Well it may be more complicated, if your car started life with a 5SFE)
Using a caldina loom, may take a significant amount of time tracing wiring etc.
I wouldnt reccomend using this engine, to someone that isnt familiar with wiring etc... You'd end up spending more than the cost of a redtop, just getting the wiring redone, etc.

I dont know for sure, but it's possible that the auto ECU is tuned for 190HP instead of 200hp.
I would imagine because it's got to pull around a lardy 4WD wagon instead of a light sports car, perhaps they have to retard the ignition or some such thing.
I've also heard that compression ratio is 10.5:1 instead of 11:1, but I cant say for sure. CelicaRA45 says they are Identical, and he knows what he's talking about.

UPDATE: See above... 10hp difference is more than likely thanks to the catalytic converter being built into the headers.

Tacho signal/speedo signal.

Two ways to go about this. If you have a gen 2+ car, use the electric speedo signal from your existing gearbox.
If you have a gen 1, you can either use the cable, or convert it to electric. No problems either way! I'm using a cable, and the ECU still gets the speedo signal.. As I've still got the 180ish KPH speed cut in place.

For the tacho signal, you can either get a rev counter mechanism from a 1997+ toyota that has the same rev counter scale, or alternatively, get a tacho signal adaptor, to make your existing tacho work.

Basically, the problem is that the beams engine runs coil pack ignition, and the gen 2 or 3 3SGE or 5SFE doesnt.
So the 'old' signal runs at 20 volts or so, as it comes straight from the distributor.
The 'new' signal runs at either 5 volts or 12 volts, as it comes straight from the ECU or coils.

I've done a few things the hard way along the way with mine, so I thought I'd compile a list of things that might make it easier for someone else.

[Mekkahfire]

Wow sounds interesting! Im looking to do an autocross car SW20 setup, so keep this thread updated!

[mr220v]

I'm working on a custom wiring harness that should get the beams swap under $2000 (assuming you get a reasonable deal on your motor).

I just wish the ecu's were more readily available.

[PHOENIX]

Nice write-up dave, thats definately website material.

mr220v - please document that, i will be extremely interested in it.

[mr220v]

Its been said that 2ndgen 3sge/5sfe headers will work on the 3rdgen 3sge and beams motors. So, you could potentially use that $100 ebay ssautochrome header. They also have a 4-2-1 header that is a little more expensive.

Now, all we need is a good place to get ecu's.

[PHOENIX]

^ I checked with glenn, all he had was some blacktop ECU's.

[ckboy700]

Just curious can you install a blacktop into an N/A mr2 auto? Looking to beef up my high mileage auto and I can't drive stick due to an injury.

[PHOENIX]

a blacktop, there are a few clearance issues with blacktops going into MR2's, the major thing is the intake manifold, it just wont fit. you will have to find a redtop manifold and the chances of that are slim to none.

[canadam]

could you go ITB ?

[PHOENIX]

yes, but you will have to cut the firewall out from the engine bay to the trunk to make the plenum fit.

[canadam]

Is it because the head is wider due to dual VVT-i ?

[PHOENIX]

i don't think so, i think it has to do with the angle of the intake manifold in relation to the header. The manifold doesn't go into a full 90 degree angle, its more like a 60 degree angle (best guess). There are a few things that go in between the manifold and the head which pushes out the manifold a little bit so it does get a little close to the firewall. The Itb's dont bend much, they are almost straight as you can see from this picture......



So with the ITB adapter, the throttle bodies, the velocity stacks that go on the itb's, and then the plenum, there is no room at all for it unless you cut out the firewall.

[WFX]

SO ITBs are useless on the Red-Tops especially in cars like the Celica? NUTS!

Is it possible to run them off a different mounting bracket like a 90 degree bend or something? Sticking out of the hood? That would be cool, sorry dont know much about ITBs!

[Celica RA45]

the quadset are 165mm including inlet ,ramtube and throttle from where they bolt to the head to the tip of the ramtube in length

[Roman]

Originally Posted by canadam

Is it because the head is wider due to dual VVT-i ?

The single VVTI head appears to be almost exactly the same....

It has extra cam caps at the end that arent used (but are on the altezza) And it also has the casting in the front/top of the head for the exhaust side VVTI solenoid, and at the end of the head for the cam angle sensor.

With some machining work, a few altezza bits, (Cams, cam angle sensor, etc) and an ECU to run it, I bet you could set up dual VVTI using a single VVTI head, if you were so inclined.

But more than likely cheaper/easier to just get a dual VVTI head to start with.

[Celica RA45]

all of the heads are rwd but they machine different things for fwd and rwd in the casting i have already changed a fwd head into a rwd head for the new race motor but you wont be able to change the exhaust to vvti as it has been machined to much already 27mm journals versus 29mm for the vvti

[mr220v]

I think I may have the first budget beams swap. Here is a pretty complete list of my costs.

-engine $900 (came with a tranny that I didn't use. It was originally from a celica)
-ecu $250
-afm $30
-exhaust work $100
-ecu/misc plugs $30
-msd tach adapter $50
-fluids $70 (redline mtl)

So, the total cost of the swap was $1430. My target was $1500, so I came in under this, though there are a few remaining things that I will probably buy, but the engine is in the car and running for $1430.

[Roman]

Yep that's a good effort MR220V.

Not a bad price for an 'american' beams swap!

[mr220v]

I'll be able to duplicate the wiring part of this swap, so if anybody wants to do a beams swap on the cheap, let me know.

[bouncintiga]

why isn't the e153 gearbox recommended? Is it the gearing or the parts needed to make it work or both? I'm looking into the beams swap since there's a motor around me for sale and i'd like to use a turbo trans for lsd, but mostly since my NA tranny is a little beat up (bad syncros).