BEAMS Swapped - running rough - very rough...

[Marco69]

Hey guys,

I just finished with my swap (thank you Doug for the wiring work)...

I started the car and it runs rough, I let it idle for a while, but the temp niddle did not reach normal temperature. I run the car for a while, but the niddle drop to about a quater of the way. Meanwhile, the car would bog on partial throttle at lower RPMs, but run very good up high. I got home and removed the thermostat and noticed that it is a 71* celsuis, rather than the normal Toyota 85*. I'm buying a replacement thermostat as I'm thinking these issues are caused by the car not being up to temperature.

Is there anything else I should be looking for?

Thank you for the help!
Marco

[MANDALAY]

Looks like you possibly have a TRD thermostat which opens at a lower temp.
Make sure all your vacuum hoses are connected. IS everything connected ?
Make sure that nipple on the intake manifold has a rubber plug its about 3 mm just under the manifold.
Did you check , change water pump ?
Clean the throttle body ?.

[mr220v]

Yeah, if the temp gauge is only going 1/4 up, then this is a problem (kinda cold up there I guess). VVTI doesn't work until the engine is more or less heated up.

Aside from that, make sure you're using a correct intake for the beams maf. Don't just mount it in a random hose.

[Marco69]

Yes, everything is connected - there is only a four-pin connector by the t-body that has nothing to be connected to.
The nipple from the manifold is connected to the fuel return diaphragm if I remember correctly – I’m at work now and can’t check…

I am using an aluminum 3" tube with welded MAF sensor adapter (no rubber here)

Thank you for the help!
Marco

[mr220v]

Is your intake something you made, or something you bought?

Anyway, low operating temp is probably the issue.

[Marco69]

I bought the Camry V6 MAF adapter for the cold air intake. So, the MAF sensor fits and bolts in nicely. I changing thermostats later today and see if the car comes up to temperature and runs good!

[mr220v]

Also, if your tps looks like it took a beating, this is another common thing. But we'll wait on that.

[Marco69]

Just a quick update:

I changed the thermostat for the right 82* one. The engine came up to operating temperature and run fine for the most part. I took the car to the last track day of the season (for me) and put 200 miles on it. Not bad at all - engine performed flawlessly.

I still have an issue with the car bogging hard between 2K and 3K RPM at partial throttle. I have to back out of the gas completely and just barely press on the pedal for the engine to get going. Other than that, the engine seems to run fine; perhaps a bit rough, but fine in terms of performance. There is something not right and I will start by taking out the TB and Idle control valve and clean them. I suspect the TPS, but I don't see any signs of damage at all. Maybe I need to review all the vacuum hoses, but there's only 2, one for the charcoal canister to the TB nipple (top one) and the Fuel Pressure Regulator to the only other nipple available in the TB (bottom one).

I’ll post some pics of the event and a vid once I download all the data.

Cheers,
Marco

[MANDALAY]

Do you have the Beams charcoa; canister with the electronic device on the top of it ?
Curious . I have it . Also the clip that i bought given it was a MR2 one also had it.
Since most people buy engines only and not full clips they wouldnt have the canister.
I have no idea the reasoning for the electronic valve but as an experimeny l disconnected the loom from it and it went rough.

[Lion_HUN]

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

Do you have the Beams charcoa; canister with the electronic device on the top of it ?
Curious . I have it . Also the clip that i bought given it was a MR2 one also had it.
Since most people buy engines only and not full clips they wouldnt have the canister.
I have no idea the reasoning for the electronic valve but as an experimeny l disconnected the loom from it and it went rough.

Where is this device and what does it do exactly?? I might miss it as well if what you say is correct :S

[MANDALAY]

Its attatched to the charcoal canister.
I'm not that much help with problems other than some of the wiring issues ( beams into a non beams, fuel pump, taco,speedo , air con ) as this is a new engine with everything attached like a factory beams.
I can always help with what is standard though.
Started first go, adjusted idle and that was it.
Sorry.

[Lion_HUN]

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

Its attatched to the charcoal canister.
I'm not that much help with problems other than some of the wiring issues ( beams into a non beams, fuel pump, taco,speedo , air con ) as this is a new engine with everything attached like a factory beams.
I can always help with what is standard though.
Started first go, adjusted idle and that was it.
Sorry.

Could you post or send me a picture of your charcoal canister with the device on it so I can compare with mine? And also from the vacuum hose, where is it going?
What did you disconnect? Did you get any error code when it was disconnected?
And lastly, when you say it went rough, does it mean that that idle wasn't okay, or you drove the car and felt it less powerful?

Sorry for the bunch of questions, but I still have power loss issues and I'm triing to get as familiar with the engine as I can to sort things out.

Edit:
It came to my mind, that I got the charcoal canister with my engine, but the guy who built in the engine said that I won't need that part because it's only for emission reasons (I didn't know anything about it). So I think I don't even have a charcoal canister right now in the car :S That would explain the high CO value I get, but could it cause the engine to be less powerful?

[eggroller]

Originally Posted by Marco69

I’ll post some pics of the event and a vid once I download all the data.

Cheers,
Marco

Or I will post pictures!!!


(Left to Right) 91 Sunroof 5SFE. 94 T-Top 5SFE. 91 Hardtop 5SFE. 95 Hardtop BEAMS. 91 5SFE (green one in background). 91 Turbo T-Top (not pictured)


Blue tape is for securing realtime GPS data acquisition antenna.




91 Hardtop 5SFE. 95 Hardtop BEAMS. Ferrari 355

I have the 94 T-Top. There is a Gen3 3S-GE in the garage thanks to Marco's advice w/94 MR2 3S-GE ECU!

[Marco69]

Thank you, Ray for the pictures... We had a blast and tons of miles on the cars as well.

Ok, in terms of the valve for he charcoal canister, I have the valve, but the harness I got back from Doug didn't have a connector for it so I just connected the canister to the TB directly. I do have a plug that is not connected, but it is a four-ping whereas the valve-selenoid is a two-ping connector - I'll ping Doug to see if I need to splice that connector and use it for the valve-selenoid Maybe the ECU is missing a signal there and not running properly.

It would be great if someone can post a picture of the connection to better see routing of the vacuum and the charcoal canister.

Cheers and thanks for all the help!
Marco

[MANDALAY]

EPC and my car has 2 hoses from the Throttle body . The one on top goes to the canister. The one on the side bottom goes to the pressure regulator, I guess this one just vents any fumes back to the throttle body and then any fumes in the throttle body back to the canister, The bottom of the canister then vents back down to a plastic cylinder down the bottom of the car near the fuel filter.. In line with the 2 hoses there is an electronic valve. i dont know what it does but its connected to the harness. When i forgot to connect it after checking something the engine was erratic on idle. Turned of the engine had a look, noticed that l forgot to reconnect it so l did and restarted abd everything was ok.
I have been told numerous times its only for EPA reasons so as to capture all related fumes.I think this is so also. Maybe the solenoid opens the venting when the engine is off.
Lion Hun , its on the manual
Im also wondering with all the low power Beam installs are they missing little things like this that cause the ECU to behave differently.
After i was told that the canister was only EPA i thought about not buying it as it is very expenise but i still bought it as my tuner said that there was a possibility something could go wrong as its connected to the ECU. If it wasn't l wouldnt have got it.

[MANDALAY]

One thing for sure the manual shows the map for the VVTi operation and the position for the mechanism and readings but still need to translate those pages

[MANDALAY]

Ok . I HATE JAPANESE .........................
That gismo on the charcoal is a VALVE , DUTY VACUUM SWITCHING. Its also on the celica engines BUT IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION. Not on the charcoal canister like the MR2 ( when you buy the MR2 canister it is already connected to it )but the EPC shows for the CELICA that one hose from the Fuel regulator goes to the bottom side nipple on the throttle body and the nipple from the top of the throttle body goes to this valve
part number 25860-16200. Now if you dont have this follow that tube above the throttle body where does it lead to ?
What have you connected it to ?
The last 3SGE non beams is the car that i have . When taking the engine out MAN it had a lotttttt of vacuum hoses all over the place and a valve assy,air control ( for idle speed control ) with the vacuum switching device next to it. With all the these hoses >15 this unit was tucked away under the intake manifold.
There you go the beams has only one hose with that valve next to the charcoal canister
Your rough idles poor power with all the cars really has to be that somewhere along the line people are leaving out little bits.
But then again it would be wise if someone with a celica clip put into a MR2 and see what they did with the canister and this valve .Hum . dont know BUT one thing for sure i copied exacately the BEAMS and what it should have for a MR2 - No problems but very expensive

[Lion_HUN]

Big thanks to you for the infos and for your time you spent with it!

I took a look in my engine bay and I saw that the upper vacuum hose on the TB goes to a device close on the firewall, probably the FPR (will check on, I don't know how it should look like). The other hose goes to the back of the engine and disappears in the wiring jungle :S Will check on this as well, where the hell does it go. I will also change them to see what happens (according to your writing they are connected oppositely...)

I also saw two plugs behind the engine coming from the wiring and hanging free. One is a 2 pin plug, probably for the valve on the canister you mentioned, and the other is a three pin plug (oh boy, what else is missing from my engine... :S)

Will take photos but I have to wait for weekend again to get to the car.

[MANDALAY]

? you not running the stock fuel pressure regulator ? Why ?
Not connected vacuum hoses are not a good thing
Not running a canister ( some people cork them ) but not having it at all in the engine bay is a big no no here , its like not having a cat, very big fines !
Surely not connected wires is also not good.
Take your time do it right and make sure everything is connected.
As i said any other members should intervene and comment with those connection aka canister and what they have done and if they have full power with a stable idle.
To get all those parts that i have will be very expensive l