SHORT BLOCK - Page 6

puretone · 07-07-2009, 07:12 PM

does that say Delicious Pizza? In Australia?? I thought all you guys had out there was Outback Steak House?
Smoking is bad for you, please leave the sparking up & burning to the BEAMS engine....
Nice piston btw, dished? Nice rods btw, specs?

MANDALAY · 07-09-2009, 12:07 PM

Outback Steak House, yeh right we dont have them here, only in the States . Gimick.
Yeh we all have wombats and kangaroos as pets too , didnt you know

Those calinda pistons are dished.

BTW we put eggs on our Aussie pizzas, freaks Americans out.

puretone · 07-09-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

Outback Steak House, yeh right we dont have them here, only in the States . Gimick.
Yeh we all have wombats and kangaroos as pets too , didnt you know

Those calinda pistons are dished.

BTW we put eggs on our Aussie pizzas, freaks Americans out.

oh heck I like egg on my pizza's too, what really makes me feel like fingernails on blackboard is what they call a pizza a 'pie' over here..... BTW nothing wrong with goatcheese, spinach & egg pizza.

I've always wanted me a Platypus for a pet....

Lately all these USA TV channels have been getting their hands on either Australian accented or just Aussie in general folks to voice all the adverts & host all these shows as to what I suspect makes them sound smarter or more fancy/sophisticated/elegant voices....starting to drive me up the damn wall....like calling your steak & fries joint "Outback Steakhouse" and having some Aussie-voiced idiot do your advert makes it somehow more "authentic" on some gimmick that never was to begin with.....honestly do you guys over there eat these humongous deep-fried onions all the time?

MANDALAY · 07-10-2009, 12:39 AM

The only place you can get onion rings is from Hungry Jacks ( your Burger King )
Must say though im not that ugly , well you wouldnt call me a stud buy any stretch of the imagination 5'6" and old but when i went to the States 1999 for the whole 6 weeks girls were buying me drinks as long as i kept talking .Gee even the Cops loved us, we drove the whole time with number plates AUSTRALIA , the car was green and gold and we even got pictures with them at truck stations and not one of them said anything about the plates

Thing is most of our TV is american and honestly on TV you sound like us but when they have a real Aussie , that doesnt exaggerate , well you can hear the difference.

MANDALAY · 07-11-2009, 01:40 AM

Ok back to the subject at hand.
Spent time with the engine builder today , man was it enlightening

Now what im about to write, might be general knowledge to some folk but not to others such as me. Aparantely this is how it should be done if you are to take your engine apart.
Firstly he checked out the SRK block. He showed me things that i didnt see at first glance and what has caused them. Again as ive always stated this was no way 10,000 mile engine.More like 50,000 , Well he showed me the unroundness of the top off the cylinder and the scrapings because of this by the rings. What amazed me was the deformation of the cylinder walls at the 4 points where the head bolts are.
This he said was due to the torquing up of the factory head bolts.
He said this would even happan again with my new block if i used the OEM bolts.
To some extent this would be reduced if i used studs however it would still happen again.
EVEN with a new block his recommendation is to have the new block TORQUE PLATED ( big block of steel mimicking a cylinder head ) and honed. The torque would be recorded so when the engine was assembled the same torque would be applied.
This step would ensure that when the engine was assenbled the cylinder would be true and round.
Next he added that thou the studs are a much better solution than bolts because of strength the reason why is that there is no pressure put on the thread to pull the head tight.
But he did go on to say the principle of the stud and how they should have the ability to stretch and commented that even the ARP studs were short. Longer studs should be made with long washers machined, so that it would yield more stretch. Well as long as the camshaft clearance allows. Ferraris are about a foot long !
Once this was done then the pistons with the correct diameter ordered.
Here i was thinking new engine and just put it together , well thats how Toyota does it , but i guess because they are mass produced cars.
Guess what im doing next

and

but i must say better to know now rather than latter.
BTW when i take the head off my new engine ill report on it and its state.
The top ring is too low also.
Last comments were this is the reason for failure of most engine rebuilds.
So for anyone contiplating a rebuild you might want to consider what ive written. For those that knew sorry for boring you

MANDALAY · 07-15-2009, 06:58 AM

Well ill be damn again !!!!!!!!!!!!
Checked out SRK store and quess what he has a 3SGTE block for sale. Now the reason why i point it out is that he has some good photos of the top of the cylinders. And well as i mentioned earlier all of the cylinder tops a deformed. If you look you will see the dents corresponding to the studs

Any one else have pictures ?

MANDALAY · 07-17-2009, 11:55 AM

Well just finished doing measurements for piston using the SRK engine. Mould area cast in urethane for shape. Squish area needs improving.
Also checked out the C/R of the caldina pistons which are 9:1 in the turbo engine but with the Beams head its sitting at 12.3:1

puretone · 07-17-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

Well ill be damn again !!!!!!!!!!!!
Checked out SRK store and quess what he has a 3SGTE block for sale. Now the reason why i point it out is that he has some good photos of the top of the cylinders. And well as i mentioned earlier all of the cylinder tops a deformed. If you look you will see the dents corresponding to the studs

Any one else have pictures ?

website link?

Celica RA45 · 07-17-2009, 07:27 PM

you dummy the caldina motor is still based on the gen 3 3sge
if you got std rods from argo as in length 138mm center to center then get some TODA turbo pistons there about 9 to 1 from memory or you can try sps at dandenong if you show them the stock 11to 1 and tell them the head cc chamber they will make you up a set of what everyou wont with rings and pins

Celica RA45 · 07-17-2009, 07:31 PM

and on the torque plate issue even boring with this on and using either factory bolts or arp studs it still make the same marks .crank shaft rebuilders do all of my machining,, by going to a longer rod ratio has help this a lot /
i have been playing with these motors now since 99

MANDALAY · 07-18-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celica RA45

you dummy the caldina motor is still based on the gen 3 3sge
if you got std rods from argo as in length 138mm center to center then get some TODA turbo pistons there about 9 to 1 from memory or you can try sps at dandenong if you show them the stock 11to 1 and tell them the head cc chamber they will make you up a set of what everyou wont with rings and pins

No i wasnt looking at the caldina piston for my build, i just bought one because i was curious to see any advancement in TOYOTA'S piston design given this was there last turbo design.

MANDALAY · 07-18-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puretone

website link?

JDM MR2 3SGTE Turbo Gen Rev 3 Short Block Engine Motor:eBay Motors (item 250454655754 end time Jul-28-09 20:21:13 PDT)

MANDALAY · 07-18-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celica RA45

you dummy the caldina motor is still based on the gen 3 3sge
if you got std rods from argo as in length 138mm center to center then get some TODA turbo pistons there about 9 to 1 from memory or you can try sps at dandenong if you show them the stock 11to 1 and tell them the head cc chamber they will make you up a set of what everyou wont with rings and pins

Yeh they are doing my pistons

MANDALAY · 07-18-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celica RA45

and on the torque plate issue even boring with this on and using either factory bolts or arp studs it still make the same marks .crank shaft rebuilders do all of my machining,, by going to a longer rod ratio has help this a lot /
i have been playing with these motors now since 99

So is this deformation at the top of the cylinder general knowledge ?
I didnt know until ,y engineer pointed it out to me
How and why would lomger rods help this ? It doesnt make sence to me. The ability of a stud to stretch instead of being hard which will pull the block makes sense. To achieve a better stretch = longer studs, Ferrari has 12 inch studs

puretone · 07-26-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

JDM MR2 3SGTE Turbo Gen Rev 3 Short Block Engine Motor:eBay Motors (item 250454655754 end time Jul-28-09 20:21:13 PDT)

What happened to you all of a sudden?? Promoting SRK???
Its a short block, used, sold with a head gasket, used, so it's added so they don't have to throw it out? SUPER RARE!!

??

MANDALAY · 07-26-2009, 11:58 PM

He has a good picture showing the top of the cylinder and the dents relative to the head bolts

Roman · 07-27-2009, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

So is this deformation at the top of the cylinder general knowledge ?
I didnt know until ,y engineer pointed it out to me
How and why would lomger rods help this ? It doesnt make sence to me. The ability of a stud to stretch instead of being hard which will pull the block makes sense. To achieve a better stretch = longer studs, Ferrari has 12 inch studs

Longer rods mean that when the piston is pushing down, the rod is more vertical through the stroke, less forces pushing against the side of the block I guess?

MANDALAY · 07-27-2009, 05:04 AM

Its a weird one. Ive seen a few blocks now and they all have that deformation. My engineer is positive that torque plate , honing and longer studs will stop this happening. Also quote " torquing down all the studs with the same number is not done in the track scene. The outer 4 studs are always lower than the inner as there is less metal.
Great learning

MANDALAY · 08-29-2009, 12:58 AM

Pistons are here

Ceramic coat on top with teflon ? on the skirts
9.5 compression 86.5 mm

MANDALAY · 09-03-2009, 08:24 AM

New Forged pistons on the left . Stock brand bew piston on the right

Ceramic coated top with treatment on the skirts.Scalloped out to lower the compression to 9.5 : 1 with a diameter 86.5
Notice the little groove under the 1st ring land. There to aid less knocking.
Also the modified squish area can be seen to the trained eye.There is a little more meat all around and under the 3rd ringland.

07-15-2009, 06:58 AM	#106 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Well ill be damn again !!!!!!!!!!!! Checked out SRK store and quess what he has a 3SGTE block for sale. Now the reason why i point it out is that he has some good photos of the top of the cylinders. And well as i mentioned earlier all of the cylinder tops a deformed. If you look you will see the dents corresponding to the studs Any one else have pictures ? Last edited by MANDALAY; 07-15-2009 at 04:32 PM.

08-29-2009, 12:58 AM	#119 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Pistons are here Ceramic coat on top with teflon ? on the skirts 9.5 compression 86.5 mm Last edited by MANDALAY; 08-29-2009 at 07:09 AM.

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07-07-2009, 07:12 PM	#101 (permalink)
puretone Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Aruba, #1 BEAMS Engine on the Island Posts: 1,352 Thanks: 24 Thanked 46 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	does that say Delicious Pizza? In Australia?? I thought all you guys had out there was Outback Steak House? Smoking is bad for you, please leave the sparking up & burning to the BEAMS engine.... Nice piston btw, dished? Nice rods btw, specs?

07-09-2009, 12:07 PM	#102 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Outback Steak House, yeh right we dont have them here, only in the States . Gimick. Yeh we all have wombats and kangaroos as pets too , didnt you know Those calinda pistons are dished. BTW we put eggs on our Aussie pizzas, freaks Americans out.

07-10-2009, 12:39 AM	#104 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	The only place you can get onion rings is from Hungry Jacks ( your Burger King ) Must say though im not that ugly , well you wouldnt call me a stud buy any stretch of the imagination 5'6" and old but when i went to the States 1999 for the whole 6 weeks girls were buying me drinks as long as i kept talking .Gee even the Cops loved us, we drove the whole time with number plates AUSTRALIA , the car was green and gold and we even got pictures with them at truck stations and not one of them said anything about the plates Thing is most of our TV is american and honestly on TV you sound like us but when they have a real Aussie , that doesnt exaggerate , well you can hear the difference.

07-11-2009, 01:40 AM	#105 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Ok back to the subject at hand. Spent time with the engine builder today , man was it enlightening Now what im about to write, might be general knowledge to some folk but not to others such as me. Aparantely this is how it should be done if you are to take your engine apart. Firstly he checked out the SRK block. He showed me things that i didnt see at first glance and what has caused them. Again as ive always stated this was no way 10,000 mile engine.More like 50,000 , Well he showed me the unroundness of the top off the cylinder and the scrapings because of this by the rings. What amazed me was the deformation of the cylinder walls at the 4 points where the head bolts are. This he said was due to the torquing up of the factory head bolts. He said this would even happan again with my new block if i used the OEM bolts. To some extent this would be reduced if i used studs however it would still happen again. EVEN with a new block his recommendation is to have the new block TORQUE PLATED ( big block of steel mimicking a cylinder head ) and honed. The torque would be recorded so when the engine was assembled the same torque would be applied. This step would ensure that when the engine was assenbled the cylinder would be true and round. Next he added that thou the studs are a much better solution than bolts because of strength the reason why is that there is no pressure put on the thread to pull the head tight. But he did go on to say the principle of the stud and how they should have the ability to stretch and commented that even the ARP studs were short. Longer studs should be made with long washers machined, so that it would yield more stretch. Well as long as the camshaft clearance allows. Ferraris are about a foot long ! Once this was done then the pistons with the correct diameter ordered. Here i was thinking new engine and just put it together , well thats how Toyota does it , but i guess because they are mass produced cars. Guess what im doing next and but i must say better to know now rather than latter. BTW when i take the head off my new engine ill report on it and its state. The top ring is too low also. Last comments were this is the reason for failure of most engine rebuilds. So for anyone contiplating a rebuild you might want to consider what ive written. For those that knew sorry for boring you

07-17-2009, 11:55 AM	#107 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Well just finished doing measurements for piston using the SRK engine. Mould area cast in urethane for shape. Squish area needs improving. Also checked out the C/R of the caldina pistons which are 9:1 in the turbo engine but with the Beams head its sitting at 12.3:1

07-17-2009, 07:27 PM	#109 (permalink)
Celica RA45 Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: sunny australia Posts: 337 Thanks: 0 Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	you dummy the caldina motor is still based on the gen 3 3sge if you got std rods from argo as in length 138mm center to center then get some TODA turbo pistons there about 9 to 1 from memory or you can try sps at dandenong if you show them the stock 11to 1 and tell them the head cc chamber they will make you up a set of what everyou wont with rings and pins

07-17-2009, 07:31 PM	#110 (permalink)
Celica RA45 Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: sunny australia Posts: 337 Thanks: 0 Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	and on the torque plate issue even boring with this on and using either factory bolts or arp studs it still make the same marks .crank shaft rebuilders do all of my machining,, by going to a longer rod ratio has help this a lot / i have been playing with these motors now since 99

07-26-2009, 11:58 PM	#116 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	He has a good picture showing the top of the cylinder and the dents relative to the head bolts

07-27-2009, 05:04 AM	#118 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Its a weird one. Ive seen a few blocks now and they all have that deformation. My engineer is positive that torque plate , honing and longer studs will stop this happening. Also quote " torquing down all the studs with the same number is not done in the track scene. The outer 4 studs are always lower than the inner as there is less metal. Great learning

09-03-2009, 08:24 AM	#120 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,828 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	New Forged pistons on the left . Stock brand bew piston on the right Ceramic coated top with treatment on the skirts.Scalloped out to lower the compression to 9.5 : 1 with a diameter 86.5 Notice the little groove under the 1st ring land. There to aid less knocking. Also the modified squish area can be seen to the trained eye.There is a little more meat all around and under the 3rd ringland.