SHORT BLOCK

[MANDALAY]

Still building my Rotrex set up
My intentions are to install everything and run a low pressure setting.
Once its all settled i want to install a stronger short block.
Block has been ordered and awaiting . Now this is where i would love to hear opinions and any links.
The standard bore is 86mm as everyone knows. Should i leave it at that or have a machine shop go to 86.5 mm.
Rods the N/A are the same as the Turbo so i am considering CARRILLO RODS.
H beam.
Bearings trimetalic ???????????
Crankshaft ordered OEM. Have it knifed ? what the hell is that ? Balanced i get that
Pistons thats another issue ! Once my tuner has the Rotrex setup going and sees whats happening his advice is high CR ...
I dont want lower than PHEONIX 9.5 CR
Should i stick with arias .
There are local companies here but frankley their prices are nearly the same..
See im wanting the power but also the longevity.

[Celica RA45]

well ange if you are getting meridian to tune it get them to do all of the work like pistons and rods for you etc
no good asking here as no 1 has done it or doing it just you .daniel should have worked on enough motors to set it up for you and he would have worked at the race track for the v8 super cars as well

[MANDALAY]

I still havent made my mind up on who will tune it. MMS hasnt any experience with the latest MoTec knock sensor. I guess no one wants to pay $1500 for it. And really i would prefer a rolling dybo.
Yes most likely no one has done it here but maybe a friend of a friend has ? or another car.
Also to get contacts and links where to get things. I prefer to do research , get info , build a plan and then excute. Never rush as there is no dead line. As i have 3 cars.

Your comments are well worth noted. I for one acknowledge your experience and it would be great to see you making more posts

[Celica RA45]

well the guy that tunes mine uses a motec knock sensor and also has a link 1 as well
but for you i would go eagle rods or spool and a high comp piston about 12.5 to 1 from me etc or you could try other pistons from other places same with rods and on bearings go for the race series as they are for turbo and high rpm use

[MANDALAY]

Are you taking about Melbourne Performance in Bayswater ?
They are suggesting to stay higher CR even with SC
I contact Auscrank and they refered me to Argo ( same price as carrillo ) , yes saw spool and much cheaper but also saw no oil gallary on the Rod H beam. Toda is I beam with gallery........All so confusing
and piston builder in Dandenong ( same price as Arias ) Its just easier here give them a piston and remake.
Man if you could fill out all the questions in the Arias order form that would be great for everyone
Wasnt receptive to eagle rods ( china make )
Yeh saw the race series ACL. JUST AS confusing. Standard oil clearance or +0.001 ?
See you have built a High CR beams and if that was the way i wanted to got i would come to you.
The answers im seeking is for FI

[Celica RA45]

your motor has oil squirters so the top of the rod doesnt need a oil hole ,well my argos havnt any way as they have a flooting pin
the eagles are a good cheap rod and a lot of the turbo guys use them
but as i use a longer rod than std i have to get custom rods made up ,my tuner is in kensington and he worked at motec from when the company started till about 4 years ago left to start his own business
also colin at special pistons is a good bloke you just show him a sample of your 11to 1 and say you need to go 12,5 to 1 or you can try 13.5 to 1 if you like and he will make them and if you damage 1 piston he can also make you 1 up ,being as most parts can be made up here so no import duty

[MANDALAY]

Yeh Colin seams a great block to deal with. But do you think they are as good as the other popular makes ? Do they coat your pistons ?
Why you saying going that high CR with the Supercharger ? most say go down.
But apparently the new EVOhas gone up. Higher CP = less boost required
As far as your tunner is it the guys on Dynan Rd.
Auscrank say they will balance and knife edge it. There price for a billet is really dear compared to $500 for OEM

Remember im want as bullet proof as possible. But not for high PSI but longevity

[Celica RA45]

well ange i will leave this for you to decide on ,as its up to you for what you are after and if you feel that some companys over here are not good enough then you might have to get your parts from overseas

[MANDALAY]

Yeh , i only like doing things once but the best that can be and if someone had done it befor it would be great. Thats why its so cofusing with all the options that are available.
Ask me to build the BEST home or car stereo no prob, been there, lots of myths and crap.
Ive already disected the bull****.
Engines are a new territory and want someone to show me the way and not for free
HATE that clause dont give a guarantee

[puretone]

a "knifed" crank is when they cut material off the counter weights to make then lighter and spin more freely thru the oil/air/whatever they pass thru.....now they shed oil residue off as well. I know Carillo stand by this procedure and are pretty much #1 in the business about doing this to any crank.

http://www.60degreev6.com/forum/gall.../8//crank3.JPG
16vg60build :: crank.jpg picture by albriere53 - Photobucket

Go for forged everything, hey if you can get badass forged H-Beam conrods you oughta be good. Pistons? Hmmmm, Arias? With a slight dome? Would drop compression too much.

Can we have our cylinders sleeved ? I would love to have Darton sleeves....mmm ductile iron

Don't know if there are other block-strengtheners at all, plus we have iron block, should be super strong. Some cylinder sleeve stays?


Dude get the head ported & polished!!

[Celica RA45]

ange i can do it and it wont be free and i wouldnt use darton sleeves they are only good for alloy blocks etc puretone
the parts that are manufactured here are as good if not better than the parts that come from america .ps if you are going for boost i would tend to leave crank alone just a good balance etc and use i beam rods would be ok as well
if you wont a quote on a short block let me know you still would have my no

[MANDALAY]

^ ill take you up on that as soon as my block is here.

[MANDALAY]

Puretone , was told our blocks are plenty strong So as the crankshaft.
But to balance and knife edge . I just remembered i have a Ferrari video showing them making an engine and shows it really well.
See if the bottom end is all forged , trimetallic bearings ACL why lower the compression, more boost , but thats not what im after.
Why not have 11:1 and only 13 psi
Also if we only talk about rods given all Hbeam the price can varry as much as $1,000.
Yes the eagles are at the bottom end , made in china, but why the difference , marketing or really there is a difference
Also some builders say to rebore the new block to 86.5
and get appropriate pistons , why , does it really beed to be done ?

Thats why im asking so many questions

[puretone]

Originally Posted by Celica RA45

ange i can do it and it wont be free and i wouldnt use darton sleeves they are only good for alloy blocks etc puretone
the parts that are manufactured here are as good if not better than the parts that come from america .ps if you are going for boost i would tend to leave crank alone just a good balance etc and use i beam rods would be ok as well
if you wont a quote on a short block let me know you still would have my no

Eeeeeexactly! Knifing only makes any sense on big NA engines with ITB's and such. I would see things getting weak & spun out of whack if you knifed a turbo crank. I'm sure there's tuner nuts out there that would swear by knifing a turbo crank.....For longevity I would just stick with OEM crank, possibly get it balanced if it isn't already by Toyota.

I know the alloy block sleeving.....Are our sleeves even replaceable? Or do we just get a new cylinder block?

[MANDALAY]

No sleeving on our iron blocks, I bet the 1zz and 2zz wish they had iron

[puretone]

Originally Posted by MANDALAY

Puretone , was told our blocks are plenty strong So as the crankshaft.
But to balance and knife edge . I just remembered i have a Ferrari video showing them making an engine and shows it really well.
See if the bottom end is all forged , trimetallic bearings ACL why lower the compression, more boost , but thats not what im after.
Why not have 11:1 and only 13 psi
Also if we only talk about rods given all Hbeam the price can varry as much as $1,000.
Yes the eagles are at the bottom end , made in china, but why the difference , marketing or really there is a difference
Also some builders say to rebore the new block to 86.5
and get appropriate pistons , why , does it really beed to be done ?

Thats why im asking so many questions

I don't get why they would rebore a brand new block....if anything match up pistons to the new block, especially if it's right from the factory. I suppose maybe because they don't like the finish of the factory, and would rather hone the new block for reassurance & then match the pistons...I guess it's a bunch of honing they would do to go to 86.5mm.

I would watch out with 11:1 compression ratio & 13psi. Unless you have some seriously good rods & pistons. A seriously good tune would be required to keep things safe at that pressure. I know I know I know, diesels run at 20:1 or more....gasoline's a bit more volatile. I think you wanna watch what pistons you use, especially the ring lands tend to give up at higher boost.
Now if we have those under-piston oil sprayers to keep things cool it might be a lot safer. I know the Honda engines with those under-piston sprayers tend to do alot better with big turbos.
Just make for damn sure you get a really good tune on that compression ratio, knock can kill!


A lot of the time the knifing is also done to lighten things up and get quicker spin. Quicker rev ups etc....I am not so sure you would want this. Getting off the line from traffic light might get tougher especially with light flywheel. Engine will tend to stall easier.

[MANDALAY]

All Gen 3 upwards including the beams have the sprayers.
See thats my argument on my stock beams everyone says up to 10 psi with proper tunning should be ok
I figure then with all forged maybe just a tad higher and improve longevity ?

[Celica RA45]

the reason is most std toyota pistons are select fit and most pistons are 86.005 to start off with and oil squirters were from gen 2 turbo motors

[MANDALAY]

Ok thought about it well. Glenn if you like you can pm a quote.
I will supply the block and crank. New.
i want Carrillo H forge rods with the carr bolts, ACL bearings. Pistons custom from SPS dandenong 9.0 - 9.5 CR
Engine to be rehonned then pistons made to fit. Crank to balanced and Bearings to be sized accurately .

[MANDALAY]

Block is on its way. Now how is this you cant just buy the block shell. It comes with the matched pistons , rings ,rods and bearings.
Toyota sizes them as 1,2,3,4,5
So i will sell them off. Who wants them BUT remember if theyare not the same number as on your cylinder block its on you