Greytop BEAMS or 3rd Gen 3SGE?

AE101Jun · 08-12-2009, 02:01 PM

I have a dealer giving me Php 60k ($1250) with installation, and all for the
3SGE 3rd Gen, he also is offering me for Php 85k ($1800) A BEAMS Greytop from a Caldina GT which he would convert to manual tranny, I guess from a compatible engine, so my question is if it's acceleration I'm after which would you suggest and why? is the extra $650 worth it? also if I opt for the BEAMS, I know ECU might be de-tuned a bit, what can I do to get back those lost HP and maybe gain some more?

By the way for comparison, I already am running a 4AGE 20V silvertop, so would I feel the difference acceleration-wise?

Thanks!

puretone · 08-12-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AE101Jun

I have a dealer giving me Php 60k ($1250) with installation, and all for the
3SGE 3rd Gen, he also is offering me for Php 85k ($1800) A BEAMS Greytop from a Caldina GT which he would convert to manual tranny, I guess from a compatible engine, so my question is if it's acceleration I'm after which would you suggest and why? is the extra $650 worth it? also if I opt for the BEAMS, I know ECU might be de-tuned a bit, what can I do to get back those lost HP and maybe gain some more?

By the way for comparison, I already am running a 4AGE 20V silvertop, so would I feel the difference acceleration-wise?

Thanks!

BEAMS Red/GreyTop > 4AGE SilverTop.
Any BEAMS engine has WAY more power & torque when compared to 4AGE. I have raced against many Starlets & Corolla's with 4AGE Silver/BlackTop and beat them all by a huge amount....Oh and I have BEAMS RedTop in a ST184 Convertible Celica, which weighs about 10.000lbs more than Starlet....

mr220v · 08-12-2009, 02:45 PM

I have a beams mk2, and a 20v mk1. The beams mk2 is a good bit faster despite being 500lbs heavier.

MANDALAY · 08-12-2009, 02:55 PM

Definitely the Grey Top,
Get rid of the cats in the exhaust manifold.
The Grey top only has 2 vacuum hoses, one for the Charcoal canister and the other for the FPR.Very simple
The 3rd gen has crap loads.

mr220v · 08-12-2009, 02:56 PM

Just make sure the installer knows what he's getting into if this is going into a corolla.

AE101Jun · 08-12-2009, 07:36 PM

Thanks guys! Greytop it is then, also how would I adapt my 4AGE's ITB's to the BEAMS without having to change ECU (BEAMS are they AFM or MAP sensor or doesn't matter?), worst case, I might just have to finish off my MS-1 ECU and run Fuel only and let the Stock ECU work the Spark and VVTi, would that work? So in order for me to run my greytop like a redtop (performance-wise) all I have to do is remove the cat? would a custom made headers work? does it matter if it was an auto before? which means I'm using the auto ECU as well and last, and hopefully this would not be the case, if it turns out that the greytop came from a RAV4 instead, would that change things? (CR, Cams, performance, etc.)

THANKS GUYS!

puretone · 08-12-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AE101Jun

Thanks guys! Greytop it is then, also how would I adapt my 4AGE's ITB's to the BEAMS without having to change ECU (BEAMS are they AFM or MAP sensor or doesn't matter?), worst case, I might just have to finish off my MS-1 ECU and run Fuel only and let the Stock ECU work the Spark and VVTi, would that work? So in order for me to run my greytop like a redtop (performance-wise) all I have to do is remove the cat? would a custom made headers work? does it matter if it was an auto before? which means I'm using the auto ECU as well and last, and hopefully this would not be the case, if it turns out that the greytop came from a RAV4 instead, would that change things? (CR, Cams, performance, etc.)

THANKS GUYS!

Have a look at Just about finished....

You will have to ask Roman about the specifics, he's helpful when he's not in rehab for OCD

Either get the RedTop headers and pay alot, or get some good quality SS316 pipe & elbows and make your own....
The GreyTop has the cat in the primary headers, right outside of the exhaust ports from the head, yuck I know, so de-catting that could give you some gains, or just do it the right way.
BEAMS = MAF
GreyTop = RedTop with grey-coloured valve-cover-cover and grey intake manifold. Doesn't matter where it came from. You can paint it white/purple/green/rainbow whatever if you are gay/lesbian LOL. I'm not 100% certain if the compression ratio was *exactly* the same but I think it is. Same cams prolly etc. AFAIK the GreyTop was just a few HP off bc of the location of the cat.

edit: as far as using the Auto-ECU on a manual, just ground the NSW & PSW pins from the ECU I think was the trick. Someone should chime in on this.

mr220v · 08-13-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puretone

edit: as far as using the Auto-ECU on a manual, just ground the NSW & PSW pins from the ECU I think was the trick. Someone should chime in on this.

Actually, you do nothing. Absolutely nothing. I plugged an AT ecu into my manual harness, and it ran just the same.

AE101Jun · 08-13-2009, 11:50 AM

Thanks guys! reason why I asked whether it's MAP, AFM etc is because i wanna run ITB's on them, how hard or easy would that be? By the way I just recieve another offer and I think it's a better deal, a REDTOP BEAMS for just $1350 including everything to make it work in my AE101, catch though is he'd be getting my Silvertop, well it works for me as I won't have anymore use for that engine. I'm starting to wonder, would this engine be able to hold itself against maybe a Civic & Integra type R's?

mr220v · 08-13-2009, 01:09 PM

All the beams 3sge motors are maf. You can run itbs, but you'll have to keep your airbox.

AE101Jun · 08-13-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr220v

All the beams 3sge motors are maf. You can run itbs, but you'll have to keep your airbox.

Hmm, MAF, new to me, I was only aware of AFM and MAP, all along I thought MAF was same as MAP, just used by different manufacturer, well anyhow I'll go get the swap done first then that's the time I can get more technical about this engine, I'm very excited!

can't wait! it's gonna be goin' in into my AE101 sedan with stripped interior. By the way, with my stock gauges, I have Gas, Temp, RPM, Speed, what other things should I need to watch out with these engines? anything like oil temp, etc? also would LSD be needed or just a "nice to have"?

Thanks!

puretone · 08-13-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr220v

Actually, you do nothing. Absolutely nothing. I plugged an AT ecu into my manual harness, and it ran just the same.

Hence why I wanted someone to chime in on it. I put a 3SFE Auto ECU on a 3SFE Manual (in a RAV4) and the thing wouldn't do anything unless (either) the NSW or PSW was grounded...figured this thing would have been the same.

puretone · 08-13-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AE101Jun

Thanks guys! reason why I asked whether it's MAP, AFM etc is because i wanna run ITB's on them, how hard or easy would that be? By the way I just recieve another offer and I think it's a better deal, a REDTOP BEAMS for just $1350 including everything to make it work in my AE101, catch though is he'd be getting my Silvertop, well it works for me as I won't have anymore use for that engine. I'm starting to wonder, would this engine be able to hold itself against maybe a Civic & Integra type R's?

Again check Just about finished....
a board member with ITB on stock ECU with the stock MAF/AFM and TPS...isn't that what you are trying to do?

08-12-2009, 02:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
AE101Jun Beams Owners Group Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philippines Posts: 43 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Greytop BEAMS or 3rd Gen 3SGE? I have a dealer giving me Php 60k ($1250) with installation, and all for the 3SGE 3rd Gen, he also is offering me for Php 85k ($1800) A BEAMS Greytop from a Caldina GT which he would convert to manual tranny, I guess from a compatible engine, so my question is if it's acceleration I'm after which would you suggest and why? is the extra $650 worth it? also if I opt for the BEAMS, I know ECU might be de-tuned a bit, what can I do to get back those lost HP and maybe gain some more? By the way for comparison, I already am running a 4AGE 20V silvertop, so would I feel the difference acceleration-wise? Thanks!

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08-12-2009, 02:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	I have a beams mk2, and a 20v mk1. The beams mk2 is a good bit faster despite being 500lbs heavier.

08-12-2009, 02:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
MANDALAY Beams Owners Group Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: victoria AUSTRALIA Posts: 1,834 Thanks: 88 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Definitely the Grey Top, Get rid of the cats in the exhaust manifold. The Grey top only has 2 vacuum hoses, one for the Charcoal canister and the other for the FPR.Very simple The 3rd gen has crap loads.

08-12-2009, 02:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Just make sure the installer knows what he's getting into if this is going into a corolla.

08-12-2009, 07:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
AE101Jun Beams Owners Group Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philippines Posts: 43 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks guys! Greytop it is then, also how would I adapt my 4AGE's ITB's to the BEAMS without having to change ECU (BEAMS are they AFM or MAP sensor or doesn't matter?), worst case, I might just have to finish off my MS-1 ECU and run Fuel only and let the Stock ECU work the Spark and VVTi, would that work? So in order for me to run my greytop like a redtop (performance-wise) all I have to do is remove the cat? would a custom made headers work? does it matter if it was an auto before? which means I'm using the auto ECU as well and last, and hopefully this would not be the case, if it turns out that the greytop came from a RAV4 instead, would that change things? (CR, Cams, performance, etc.) THANKS GUYS!

08-13-2009, 11:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
AE101Jun Beams Owners Group Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Philippines Posts: 43 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks guys! reason why I asked whether it's MAP, AFM etc is because i wanna run ITB's on them, how hard or easy would that be? By the way I just recieve another offer and I think it's a better deal, a REDTOP BEAMS for just $1350 including everything to make it work in my AE101, catch though is he'd be getting my Silvertop, well it works for me as I won't have anymore use for that engine. I'm starting to wonder, would this engine be able to hold itself against maybe a Civic & Integra type R's?

08-13-2009, 01:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	All the beams 3sge motors are maf. You can run itbs, but you'll have to keep your airbox.