Beams Forum - Page 2

Roman · 06-08-2006, 06:50 AM

Well the volume of air inside the plenum doesnt change.

It does seem strange that they're so close to the back wall however.

Probably for space issues more than anything, the pipes would be tuned at that length to give a gain at a certain RPM range.

Notice how a redtop intake manifold has intake runners that are about 2/3s of the length of a gen 2 or gen 3 engine's manifold.

PHOENIX · 06-08-2006, 07:11 AM

yes, i didnt notice the length of the runners. Since they are steel, i was considering enlarging the runners, not sure yet, i was gonna read up on it a little with other engines.

MR2 Grizz · 06-30-2006, 01:18 AM

I found a Red Top for $1700.00, don't know what all it includes. I will call them tomorrow. Sounds like a good price if harness and ECU are there. I found 2 brand new Black Tops still on the shipping crate in Europe for about $5000 each, plus shipping.

Anyone had good luck with any of these businesses selling JDM motors from Japan. I get an uneasy feeling paying them thousands of dollars for a picture
on a web site. A reference is always appreciated.

I am just getting into modifying my 91 NA MR2. A Beams engine sounds good to me.

I also am about 1/3 through restoring a 1987 Celica GTS.. Still trying to find just the right motor for it. thought about a V6 but I can't find much info on the swap. Still need a passenger quarter panel for it too. But now I am hooked on the MR2..

Any references for good engine sites would be appreciated.

WFX · 06-30-2006, 06:51 AM

Great to see a BEAMS specfic forum Ive been floating around for abit and just started to get into BEAMS myself!!

Of course I still got to get my running first wiring has been a little tricky hopefully soonish!

Keep up the good work going here!!

vertex edition · 07-01-2006, 08:26 PM

I HAVE A BEAMS ECU AVAILABLE FOR SALE TOOK IT FROM MY 99 CELICA REPLACED IT WITH C-ONE PERFORMANCE ECU(THIRD GEAR WILL NOW TOP OUT AT 160 KMH CANNOT TOP FIFTH UNTIL I CHANGE THE CLOCK AS THE SPINDLE INTERFERES WITH THE SPEEDOMETER NEEDLE)NOTE THIS ECU COST 2000US BUT WORTH EVERY PENNY. E MAIL IF INTERESTED IN THE STOCK ECU.

Roman · 07-02-2006, 09:32 AM

Can you please give more information, on where the C one ECU is available from?

I am very interested.

Sorry not interested in the stock ECU, I already have 2.

red-top · 07-02-2006, 12:07 PM

hello phoenix
you recept translation of electrical wiring diagrams?
it's for my left kick panel.
thanks

vertex edition · 07-03-2006, 12:32 AM

C-ONE ECU AVAILABLE FROM C-ONE MOTORSPORT OUT OF JAPAN THEY HAVE A WEB SITE ( USE A LANGUAGE TRANSALATION SERVICE EXAMPLE ALTA VISTA TO GET INFORMATION IN ENGLISH) THIS MODIFICATION TAKES LESS THAN 30 MINUTES BUT IT IS MY OPINION THAT IT IS ONE OF THE MOST POTENT. NOTE THEY PROVIDE A NUMBER OF OTHER PERFORMANCE PARTS FOR THIS ENGINE eg light fly wheels, light pulley wheel, muffler system etc. THEY ARE AN EXPENSIVE OUTFIT BUT IN LIFE WHEN YOU BUILD YOUR HOUSE ON A ROCK IT DOES NOT SHAKE EASILY.

PHOENIX · 07-03-2006, 12:38 AM

C-One makes some outstanding products for the sw20 models. They also make an aftermarket timing belt for about $130 bucks.

Ill have to check out there website, i didnt know they made more stuff for the beams.

Thanks for the link! Ill be sure to throw it on the website.

mr220v · 07-08-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vertex edition

I HAVE A BEAMS ECU AVAILABLE FOR SALE TOOK IT FROM MY 99 CELICA REPLACED IT WITH C-ONE PERFORMANCE ECU(THIRD GEAR WILL NOW TOP OUT AT 160 KMH CANNOT TOP FIFTH UNTIL I CHANGE THE CLOCK AS THE SPINDLE INTERFERES WITH THE SPEEDOMETER NEEDLE)NOTE THIS ECU COST 2000US BUT WORTH EVERY PENNY. E MAIL IF INTERESTED IN THE STOCK ECU.

Where were you 2 months ago? I had access to a nice beams motor, just no ecu. Opted for a 2nd gen instead. Oh well guess it will be nice to be able to actually get parts for this thing.

How much for the beams ecu btw?

Roman · 07-09-2006, 02:35 AM

Mr MR220v, are you still considering getting a redtop? is it still for sale?
Because I've got a spare ECU and loom, that I *may* consider selling, if someone was desperate for it.

Well I'll definitely sell the ECU (Its an auto one though, if it matters) But might want to keep the loom.

mr220v · 07-09-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman

Mr MR220v, are you still considering getting a redtop? is it still for sale?
Because I've got a spare ECU and loom, that I *may* consider selling, if someone was desperate for it.

Well I'll definitely sell the ECU (Its an auto one though, if it matters) But might want to keep the loom.

I already opted for the 2nd gen. I never considered a 3rd gen because the performance advantage was not enough to overcome the lack of parts availability. 10-15hp (half of this just off of higher comp) is simply not worth the headaches. I picked a clean gen2 up for $500, and its plenty fast. I may still do a beams conversion at some point, but i'm going to wait a while. Probably would be in the context of restoring another mk2.

I would probably use a 2nd gen 3sge or 3sgte harness as my base for making a beams loom. Don't think a 5s harness would work too well for this.

I'm quasi intrested in a beams ecu, seeing as how they are hard to come by (for now). 2 months ago, this would have convinced me to go beams.

Roman · 07-09-2006, 06:40 PM

Yep a gen 2 motor is great bang for buck, and as you say, they're a lot more common.

Someone here was making 110kw ATW with just intake+exhaust.

Also someone here, SW20 with intake/exhaust ran a 14.7 with a gen 2 motor, they aint bad.

vertex edition · 07-13-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr220v

Where were you 2 months ago? I had access to a nice beams motor, just no ecu. Opted for a 2nd gen instead. Oh well guess it will be nice to be able to actually get parts for this thing.

How much for the beams ecu btw?

I would sell for 200us( willing to negotiate when you are ready).

mr220v · 07-13-2006, 10:27 AM

I'm cosidering developing a beams harness based off of the usdm 3sgte harness. Most of the sensors are the same between the beams and previous generations of 3sge. The orientation of the sensors is also not that different. The main source of difficulty will be adding the wiring for the individual coil packs and additional stuff this adds (i'm assuming the beams uses an ignition module similar to the supra). Aside from this, it will be normal stuff like switching ecu plugs, removing unneeded circuits, changing sensor plugs, etc.....

I know there is a harness for the beams mr2 already, but there are only a 1000 or so of these in existance. Mr2 beams swap sell for as high as 6k. You can pick up just a motor for $1000.

I'm going to start doing a little research, it may turn out that converting a 3sgte harness for use with the 3sge beams may actually be easier than converting the 16v 4age harness for use with the 4age 20v.

I will probably start picking up parts in a month or so, just gotta fully complete my 2nd gen 3sge conversion.

Roman · 07-13-2006, 09:34 PM

The coil packs are self contained.

There's a 12 volt supply running to each of them (one power supply + 1 earth)

A signal from the ECU to tell it to ignite, (one wire)

And a signal from the coil that goes back to the ECU, to tell it that it has had a successful ignition sequence occur.

So long as you've got a 12 volt signal to the coils, and something to send a 5v signal to tell them when to fire, you could run them off anything.

Personally, I think the best way to go is to source a harness from a GT Caldina... These are quite common, have all the right plugs etc, and will only take a minimum amount of wiring to get it into an MR2.

Roman · 07-13-2006, 09:45 PM

I think it's a bit more complicated than doing a 20v loom, a 20v engine still uses a distributor ignition system.

With the beams engine, you've got the coil pack wiring, cam angle sensor, crank angle sensor, VVTI solenoid plug, and a few other bits that arent used in a 'distributored' loom.

I'm not sure how hard/easy it would be to source the appropriate fitting plug ends for these bits, but I've got a spare loom here that I'm happy to take pictures of etc. if you need any help.

Roman · 07-13-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr220v

I know there is a harness for the beams mr2 already, but there are only a 1000 or so of these in existance.

*me slaps mr220v on the hand for perpetuating internet rumours*

Have a read

PHOENIX · 07-13-2006, 09:50 PM

Definately keep us updated on your project with the wiring harness, its something that is going to baffle me when i throw my engine in my 2 and having to wire it up the beams harness to the 5sfe stuff.

mr220v · 07-13-2006, 11:01 PM

I was serious about the $1000 redtop. There was also a blacktop (not altezza) that I could have snagged for $850. These motors are pretty common in one form or another. I mean, they went into celicas, mr2s, rav4's, and caldinas. They are coming up on that sweet spot for used japanese motors too. Used jdm motors from 1990 to 1997, or say tens years and older, are usually cheap and easy to get (with the exception of honda vtec motors). The beams 3sge should be no exception.

The other thing is that these motors have no where to go. The majority of them have harnesses cut at the firewall, and are missing one thing or another. I don't think this is going to be a $1000 swap like the 20v can be, but it shouldn't be the $5000 for the mr2 rear clip either.

It sounds like the igniter functions have been integrated into the ecu. I'm glad you said that, because that makes wiring the coils much easier. I would imagine the cam sensor is similar or the same as the one used on earlier generations. Is the crank sensor a simple 1 wire pickup? The vvt should be easy to wire. Run off the injector power feed, and run the return wire from the solenoid for the escape to ground actuation. You already have wiring for the afm if you are using a usdm 3sgte harness, just reroute FC (fuel control) to the ecu. Run 3 wires, and theres your map sensor.

One other thing, I noticed that the 4th gen engine plugs are very similar to the 3rd and second gen plugs. How about the ecu? Are any of the the 90's standard 26, 22, 16? Or are the ecu plugs more like the newer toyotas?

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Posted By	For	Type	Date
Beams Owners Group	This thread	Refback	06-29-2008 06:51 PM

06-08-2006, 06:50 AM	#21 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 702 Thanks: 23 Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Well the volume of air inside the plenum doesnt change. It does seem strange that they're so close to the back wall however. Probably for space issues more than anything, the pipes would be tuned at that length to give a gain at a certain RPM range. Notice how a redtop intake manifold has intake runners that are about 2/3s of the length of a gen 2 or gen 3 engine's manifold.

06-08-2006, 07:11 AM	#22 (permalink)
PHOENIX Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Hiatus....... Posts: 7,897 Thanks: 84 Thanked 257 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (46/100% )	yes, i didnt notice the length of the runners. Since they are steel, i was considering enlarging the runners, not sure yet, i was gonna read up on it a little with other engines.

06-30-2006, 01:18 AM	#23 (permalink)
MR2 Grizz No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I found a Red Top for $1700.00, don't know what all it includes. I will call them tomorrow. Sounds like a good price if harness and ECU are there. I found 2 brand new Black Tops still on the shipping crate in Europe for about $5000 each, plus shipping. Anyone had good luck with any of these businesses selling JDM motors from Japan. I get an uneasy feeling paying them thousands of dollars for a picture on a web site. A reference is always appreciated. I am just getting into modifying my 91 NA MR2. A Beams engine sounds good to me. I also am about 1/3 through restoring a 1987 Celica GTS.. Still trying to find just the right motor for it. thought about a V6 but I can't find much info on the swap. Still need a passenger quarter panel for it too. But now I am hooked on the MR2.. Any references for good engine sites would be appreciated.

06-30-2006, 06:51 AM	#24 (permalink)
WFX Beams Owners Group Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 334 Thanks: 9 Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Great to see a BEAMS specfic forum Ive been floating around for abit and just started to get into BEAMS myself!! Of course I still got to get my running first wiring has been a little tricky hopefully soonish! Keep up the good work going here!!

07-01-2006, 08:26 PM	#25 (permalink)
vertex edition No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: JAMAICA Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I HAVE A BEAMS ECU AVAILABLE FOR SALE TOOK IT FROM MY 99 CELICA REPLACED IT WITH C-ONE PERFORMANCE ECU(THIRD GEAR WILL NOW TOP OUT AT 160 KMH CANNOT TOP FIFTH UNTIL I CHANGE THE CLOCK AS THE SPINDLE INTERFERES WITH THE SPEEDOMETER NEEDLE)NOTE THIS ECU COST 2000US BUT WORTH EVERY PENNY. E MAIL IF INTERESTED IN THE STOCK ECU.

07-02-2006, 09:32 AM	#26 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 702 Thanks: 23 Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Can you please give more information, on where the C one ECU is available from? I am very interested. Sorry not interested in the stock ECU, I already have 2.

07-02-2006, 12:07 PM	#27 (permalink)
red-top Beams Owners Group Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 45 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	hello phoenix you recept translation of electrical wiring diagrams? it's for my left kick panel. thanks

07-03-2006, 12:32 AM	#28 (permalink)
vertex edition No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: JAMAICA Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	C-ONE ECU AVAILABLE FROM C-ONE MOTORSPORT OUT OF JAPAN THEY HAVE A WEB SITE ( USE A LANGUAGE TRANSALATION SERVICE EXAMPLE ALTA VISTA TO GET INFORMATION IN ENGLISH) THIS MODIFICATION TAKES LESS THAN 30 MINUTES BUT IT IS MY OPINION THAT IT IS ONE OF THE MOST POTENT. NOTE THEY PROVIDE A NUMBER OF OTHER PERFORMANCE PARTS FOR THIS ENGINE eg light fly wheels, light pulley wheel, muffler system etc. THEY ARE AN EXPENSIVE OUTFIT BUT IN LIFE WHEN YOU BUILD YOUR HOUSE ON A ROCK IT DOES NOT SHAKE EASILY.

07-03-2006, 12:38 AM	#29 (permalink)
PHOENIX Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Hiatus....... Posts: 7,897 Thanks: 84 Thanked 257 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (46/100% )	C-One makes some outstanding products for the sw20 models. They also make an aftermarket timing belt for about $130 bucks. Ill have to check out there website, i didnt know they made more stuff for the beams. Thanks for the link! Ill be sure to throw it on the website.

07-09-2006, 02:35 AM	#31 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 702 Thanks: 23 Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Mr MR220v, are you still considering getting a redtop? is it still for sale? Because I've got a spare ECU and loom, that I may consider selling, if someone was desperate for it. Well I'll definitely sell the ECU (Its an auto one though, if it matters) But might want to keep the loom.

07-09-2006, 06:40 PM	#33 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 702 Thanks: 23 Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Yep a gen 2 motor is great bang for buck, and as you say, they're a lot more common. Someone here was making 110kw ATW with just intake+exhaust. Also someone here, SW20 with intake/exhaust ran a 14.7 with a gen 2 motor, they aint bad.

07-13-2006, 10:27 AM	#35 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,775 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	I'm cosidering developing a beams harness based off of the usdm 3sgte harness. Most of the sensors are the same between the beams and previous generations of 3sge. The orientation of the sensors is also not that different. The main source of difficulty will be adding the wiring for the individual coil packs and additional stuff this adds (i'm assuming the beams uses an ignition module similar to the supra). Aside from this, it will be normal stuff like switching ecu plugs, removing unneeded circuits, changing sensor plugs, etc..... I know there is a harness for the beams mr2 already, but there are only a 1000 or so of these in existance. Mr2 beams swap sell for as high as 6k. You can pick up just a motor for $1000. I'm going to start doing a little research, it may turn out that converting a 3sgte harness for use with the 3sge beams may actually be easier than converting the 16v 4age harness for use with the 4age 20v. I will probably start picking up parts in a month or so, just gotta fully complete my 2nd gen 3sge conversion.

07-13-2006, 09:34 PM	#36 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 702 Thanks: 23 Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	The coil packs are self contained. There's a 12 volt supply running to each of them (one power supply + 1 earth) A signal from the ECU to tell it to ignite, (one wire) And a signal from the coil that goes back to the ECU, to tell it that it has had a successful ignition sequence occur. So long as you've got a 12 volt signal to the coils, and something to send a 5v signal to tell them when to fire, you could run them off anything. Personally, I think the best way to go is to source a harness from a GT Caldina... These are quite common, have all the right plugs etc, and will only take a minimum amount of wiring to get it into an MR2.

07-13-2006, 09:45 PM	#37 (permalink)
Roman Beams OCD Support Group Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Auckland, NZ Posts: 702 Thanks: 23 Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	I think it's a bit more complicated than doing a 20v loom, a 20v engine still uses a distributor ignition system. With the beams engine, you've got the coil pack wiring, cam angle sensor, crank angle sensor, VVTI solenoid plug, and a few other bits that arent used in a 'distributored' loom. I'm not sure how hard/easy it would be to source the appropriate fitting plug ends for these bits, but I've got a spare loom here that I'm happy to take pictures of etc. if you need any help.

07-13-2006, 09:50 PM	#39 (permalink)
PHOENIX Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Hiatus....... Posts: 7,897 Thanks: 84 Thanked 257 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (46/100% )	Definately keep us updated on your project with the wiring harness, its something that is going to baffle me when i throw my engine in my 2 and having to wire it up the beams harness to the 5sfe stuff.

07-13-2006, 11:01 PM	#40 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,775 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	I was serious about the $1000 redtop. There was also a blacktop (not altezza) that I could have snagged for $850. These motors are pretty common in one form or another. I mean, they went into celicas, mr2s, rav4's, and caldinas. They are coming up on that sweet spot for used japanese motors too. Used jdm motors from 1990 to 1997, or say tens years and older, are usually cheap and easy to get (with the exception of honda vtec motors). The beams 3sge should be no exception. The other thing is that these motors have no where to go. The majority of them have harnesses cut at the firewall, and are missing one thing or another. I don't think this is going to be a $1000 swap like the 20v can be, but it shouldn't be the $5000 for the mr2 rear clip either. It sounds like the igniter functions have been integrated into the ecu. I'm glad you said that, because that makes wiring the coils much easier. I would imagine the cam sensor is similar or the same as the one used on earlier generations. Is the crank sensor a simple 1 wire pickup? The vvt should be easy to wire. Run off the injector power feed, and run the return wire from the solenoid for the escape to ground actuation. You already have wiring for the afm if you are using a usdm 3sgte harness, just reroute FC (fuel control) to the ecu. Run 3 wires, and theres your map sensor. One other thing, I noticed that the 4th gen engine plugs are very similar to the 3rd and second gen plugs. How about the ecu? Are any of the the 90's standard 26, 22, 16? Or are the ecu plugs more like the newer toyotas?