Time to replace struts

como · 06-08-2009, 01:00 AM

So I need to replace my rear driverside strut insert (wont take a sticker, a friend says there's no gas in it, but it honestly works better than the front struts on my other car... whatever)

so basically, I'm trying to decide if I should replace the coils or not.
The front coils were changed with adjustable ones by the previous owner, but I dont know if the strut inserts were changed or not, but the rears are completely stock- meaning 160k miles.

She seems to ride fine to me, but I'm used to boatlike american cars- would I notice anything special from a set of coils? Someone told me I should also drop the car about an inch, but I don't really see any reason to. Thoughts?

pas4116 · 06-08-2009, 07:34 PM

i have a set of trd lowering springs for sale...i can give the shocks with if your interested in the springs...pm if interested

Sh0ty · 06-08-2009, 07:46 PM

Lowering the car makes it look aggressive, lowers CG a little, and not a whole lot else. Stiffer springs definitely make the car a bit more fun to drive. I don't know how you have adjustable coils, unless you mean coilovers. If you have coilovers, they're not stock.

1stgen · 06-09-2009, 11:23 PM

Adjustable coils are like the sleeves with teh nuts. usually loose fiitting and cheap unless a good brand.

deucegirl03 · 06-10-2009, 01:23 AM

basically it depends on your preference. some people dislike sporty style suspension as it is usually much stiffer than oem. if you aren't a hard driver hitting canyons or track events then there isn't really a need for something like adjustable coilovers.
if you have 160K on the stock struts you should prob replace those. the lifetime of struts/shocks is usually about 50k-80k depending on the brand and how hard they've been driven on.
like sh0ty said, the benefit to lowering the car is a more aggressive stance and lower center of gravity. but again if you are not pushing the car or don't mind the way the car rides/looks at stock height then there really is no need to lower her.

my suggestion to you would be to make all four corners match. either get coilovers for the rear, or get new struts for all four. if you decide to go full coilovers, you may want to consider replacing the inserts on the fronts depending on how long ago they were installed on the car. if you decide to go struts/springs (macpherson strut style i.e. oem) then you will prob need springs for the fronts as well. ultimately the less expensive route will be to stick with the oem style macpherson strut set up and put new struts/springs on all four corners. like 1st gen said, adjustable coils are iffy unless they are a good brand, in which case things can get pricey.

do you know what brand coilovers are on the car now? if so how long ago/how many miles ago were they put on?

como · 06-10-2009, 07:53 PM

I know absolutely nothing about whats on the car now- I presume the rears are entirely stock, and the fronts have adjustable somethings. Havn't much looked, because the car wont take a sticker so I cant drive her- and therefore dont see her often.

I ordered two strut inserts off twosrus for the rear, I'm going to leave the rest alone until I take it all apart next month for the pre-winter prep.

deucegirl03 · 06-10-2009, 08:25 PM

if you are able to take some pics and post them up we can tell you what you have on the car

tjmr2 · 06-14-2009, 01:30 AM

DeuceGirl hit the nail on the head. Use the same components front and rear - struts and springs. These cars like balance and just rebuilding the front end or the RR etc. will only lead you to at worst an accident or a poor driving experience and tendency to trash the car design. Use quality components, and you won't regret it in the long run.

If you have any mechanical skills you can pick up a spring compressor for less than $20.00 and do the job yourself, saving a bunch over what a shop would charge.

Suspension parts to repair back to stock or better will show themselves in many ways.

I didn't purchase or install all my parts at once, but don't regret any I've put in.

In a car this old, it's not just springs and struts that have worn, your ball joints and all the bushings have just as many miles. None are extremely hard to replace, and all effect the handling of a car where little things can really show a great improvement in the cars overall handling.

Sh0ty · 06-14-2009, 01:41 AM

you can loan the tool for free from autozone (the compressor). Just pay full value of the tool, return it and get100% refund.

como · 06-14-2009, 12:04 PM

We actually already have a spring compressor- my father is a real DIY kinda guy, so we've got most any tool I'd need for any job...

However, something is wrong with my rear struts. With the car lifted off the ground, the rear wheels fall far enough so that the spring isnt compressed at all- in fact, on the driver side its got almost 2 full inches of vertical play. The passenger side isn't quite as bad, and you can actuall grab the wheel and pull it down about an inch on that side, and if you push it back up it will "hold" its own weight for that last inch...

So I started replacing parts yesterday, and replaced the shock absorber on the driver side, and it made no difference. I can't tell if the springs are shot or if something else is wrong, because I've never done suspension work before and just dont know anything about it- but I'm pretty darn sure the spring isnt supposed to float freely like that...

como · 06-14-2009, 01:46 PM

Took some pics of the rear passenger side a few mins ago

As you can see, the spring is nowhere near being tight inside there- it's got enough play that I can actually move it outside of the strut without taking the thing apart.

Someone told me that the car was probably lowered, and with lowering springs that's okay- but it still seems terrible to me. Is this normal/acceptable behaviour for a modified suspension system?

tq_mr2 · 06-14-2009, 02:54 PM

Hi,

I replaced my struts at 170,000k. The springs were OK, they didn't sag at all. But after taking the struts out, I found that 2 of them had maybe 1/10 the resistance as the other other two. They were really easy to expand or collapse by hand so it was like driving with no struts at all on two of the corners. The funny thing is, I had gotten so used to this, I never noticed anything wrong. I changed the struts only on the "su****ion" the struts were worn out, simply because I read somewhere that they are not supposed to last beyond about 120k.

I replaced the stock struts with 4 new ones from Tokico and I noticed the difference immediately. For the first 10k miles, seems like the ride went from a little soft to harsh. Now after 75k on the Tokicos, the ride is neither harsh nor soft, it feels just right and I have no complaints about the handling.
Tokicos have lifetime warranties like a lot of the brand-name aftermarket shock makers, so I'm confident they will last another 100k miles. The springs are still the originals and they work fine.

Best, tq_mr2, '85 Mark1 with 247k and still counting.

tq_mr2 · 06-14-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by como

Took some pics of the rear passenger side a few mins ago

http://www.netman86.com/pics/rndslr/mr2/tn_IMG_0596.JPG

As you can see, the spring is nowhere near being tight inside there- it's got enough play that I can actually move it outside of the strut without taking the thing apart.

Someone told me that the car was probably lowered, and with lowering springs that's okay- but it still seems terrible to me. Is this normal/acceptable behaviour for a modified suspension system?

Hi Como,

I just did a double take looking at your picture. Something is definitely weird! Looks like the previous owner changed the springs or put in the wrong strut. I'm glad you have it apart for repair because in my opinion, its dangerous driving around with that setup.

best, tq_mr2

como · 06-14-2009, 03:23 PM

Sigh, I was afraid you'd say that. I've had two people tell me now that they think I'm riding stock struts with lowered springs, but it doesnt look right to me. I'm headed to napa now to see what they have to say, and pick up some lithium grease to finish off my brakes.

palos · 06-14-2009, 03:47 PM

Since you have the strut already removed and there is no tension on the spring, you may as well disassemble the strut assembly. Perhaps after you clean the spring you will be able to see if there is a stamping to identify the manufacturer and its part number. After removing the strut cartridge, you should similarly be able to determine the manufacturer and its part number, and see whether the struts and springs are the right parts for your car and are compatible.

como · 06-14-2009, 04:02 PM

I've already swapped the shocks inside the tower, that's why I had it apart in the first place. Parts I ordered were from twos-r-us, they're the same size as the ones I took out so I'm guessing it's just lowering springs...

tjmr2 · 06-15-2009, 12:56 AM

It could just be me, but it's possible the springs weren't "lowering" springs at all, but cut original springs.

With Eibach Springs lowering 1" and KYB GR2 struts the springs are still tight in the carriers when I raise my 89 off the ground. And I can tell you it sits low.

There are those out there that believe you can safely lower a car by chopping off coils to lower a car, but the bottom line is it throws off the whole spring rate the spring was rated for. May look cool on the show room floor, but start flogging it and catastrophic failure at a time Murphy chooses will cause you the most discomfort and pain.

I just looked through the BGB Rear suspension section and the specifications section for a test height for the spring once it is setting on the floor and couldn't find one.

Does anyone have an old set of springs to measure and post on here? Should get him close enough to be able to make a decision on his are good to go, or buy new springs.

mr29180 · 06-15-2009, 03:45 AM

^^^ what he said it looks like it's been cut!! Well if ur dad is a mech just ask him if it's cut pretty sure he could tell... And plus if u see the top of the spring it's kinda rusted and it seems like no more tension on it too...

lestat13 · 06-15-2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr29180

^^^ what he said it looks like it's been cut!!

IMO if you are looking to replace it all, I had blue Tokicos on one of my old cars. Like someone said above, they are pretty good for the $$ especially on stock or mildly lowered springs. They were even ok when I had them with a 2 inch drop. The problem was when I swapped wheels and tires to a 35 sidewall..... then the ride quality started to suffer

como · 06-15-2009, 12:33 PM

I may just post a wanted for a set of stock springs, I have no qualms with a completely stock car...

maybe after I get a sticker and drive her around a bit I'll decide to do the front shocks too, at which point I think I could front for some new springs, but I wouldnt go nuts- $200 for a set of springs seems steep to me, and the cheapest I can find is twosrus, around $230.
I'm just not a performance monger, and I'm not really into modding cars, so I guess that's going to set me aside from most of the people on the boards here... but might also make it easy to pick up some slightly better than stock but not great springs as someone else moves up the chain.

06-08-2009, 01:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
como Road Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 514 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Time to replace struts So I need to replace my rear driverside strut insert (wont take a sticker, a friend says there's no gas in it, but it honestly works better than the front struts on my other car... whatever) so basically, I'm trying to decide if I should replace the coils or not. The front coils were changed with adjustable ones by the previous owner, but I dont know if the strut inserts were changed or not, but the rears are completely stock- meaning 160k miles. She seems to ride fine to me, but I'm used to boatlike american cars- would I notice anything special from a set of coils? Someone told me I should also drop the car about an inch, but I don't really see any reason to. Thoughts?

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06-08-2009, 07:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
pas4116 technician Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: knoxville tn... Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	i have a set of trd lowering springs for sale...i can give the shocks with if your interested in the springs...pm if interested

06-08-2009, 07:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sh0ty Cage Fighter Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 368 Thanks: 14 Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Lowering the car makes it look aggressive, lowers CG a little, and not a whole lot else. Stiffer springs definitely make the car a bit more fun to drive. I don't know how you have adjustable coils, unless you mean coilovers. If you have coilovers, they're not stock.

06-09-2009, 11:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
1stgen Yup Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Central Coast CA Posts: 382 Thanks: 11 Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Adjustable coils are like the sleeves with teh nuts. usually loose fiitting and cheap unless a good brand.

06-10-2009, 01:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
deucegirl03 Gearhead son! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 676 Thanks: 32 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	basically it depends on your preference. some people dislike sporty style suspension as it is usually much stiffer than oem. if you aren't a hard driver hitting canyons or track events then there isn't really a need for something like adjustable coilovers. if you have 160K on the stock struts you should prob replace those. the lifetime of struts/shocks is usually about 50k-80k depending on the brand and how hard they've been driven on. like sh0ty said, the benefit to lowering the car is a more aggressive stance and lower center of gravity. but again if you are not pushing the car or don't mind the way the car rides/looks at stock height then there really is no need to lower her. my suggestion to you would be to make all four corners match. either get coilovers for the rear, or get new struts for all four. if you decide to go full coilovers, you may want to consider replacing the inserts on the fronts depending on how long ago they were installed on the car. if you decide to go struts/springs (macpherson strut style i.e. oem) then you will prob need springs for the fronts as well. ultimately the less expensive route will be to stick with the oem style macpherson strut set up and put new struts/springs on all four corners. like 1st gen said, adjustable coils are iffy unless they are a good brand, in which case things can get pricey. do you know what brand coilovers are on the car now? if so how long ago/how many miles ago were they put on?

06-10-2009, 07:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
como Road Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 514 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	I know absolutely nothing about whats on the car now- I presume the rears are entirely stock, and the fronts have adjustable somethings. Havn't much looked, because the car wont take a sticker so I cant drive her- and therefore dont see her often. I ordered two strut inserts off twosrus for the rear, I'm going to leave the rest alone until I take it all apart next month for the pre-winter prep.

06-10-2009, 08:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
deucegirl03 Gearhead son! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 676 Thanks: 32 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	if you are able to take some pics and post them up we can tell you what you have on the car

06-14-2009, 01:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 310 Thanks: 0 Thanked 49 Times in 46 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	DeuceGirl hit the nail on the head. Use the same components front and rear - struts and springs. These cars like balance and just rebuilding the front end or the RR etc. will only lead you to at worst an accident or a poor driving experience and tendency to trash the car design. Use quality components, and you won't regret it in the long run. If you have any mechanical skills you can pick up a spring compressor for less than $20.00 and do the job yourself, saving a bunch over what a shop would charge. Suspension parts to repair back to stock or better will show themselves in many ways. I didn't purchase or install all my parts at once, but don't regret any I've put in. In a car this old, it's not just springs and struts that have worn, your ball joints and all the bushings have just as many miles. None are extremely hard to replace, and all effect the handling of a car where little things can really show a great improvement in the cars overall handling.

06-14-2009, 01:41 AM	#9 (permalink)
Sh0ty Cage Fighter Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 368 Thanks: 14 Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	you can loan the tool for free from autozone (the compressor). Just pay full value of the tool, return it and get100% refund.

06-14-2009, 12:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
como Road Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 514 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	We actually already have a spring compressor- my father is a real DIY kinda guy, so we've got most any tool I'd need for any job... However, something is wrong with my rear struts. With the car lifted off the ground, the rear wheels fall far enough so that the spring isnt compressed at all- in fact, on the driver side its got almost 2 full inches of vertical play. The passenger side isn't quite as bad, and you can actuall grab the wheel and pull it down about an inch on that side, and if you push it back up it will "hold" its own weight for that last inch... So I started replacing parts yesterday, and replaced the shock absorber on the driver side, and it made no difference. I can't tell if the springs are shot or if something else is wrong, because I've never done suspension work before and just dont know anything about it- but I'm pretty darn sure the spring isnt supposed to float freely like that...

06-14-2009, 01:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
como Road Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 514 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Took some pics of the rear passenger side a few mins ago As you can see, the spring is nowhere near being tight inside there- it's got enough play that I can actually move it outside of the strut without taking the thing apart. Someone told me that the car was probably lowered, and with lowering springs that's okay- but it still seems terrible to me. Is this normal/acceptable behaviour for a modified suspension system?

06-14-2009, 02:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
tq_mr2 MR2_85_original_owner Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Hi, I replaced my struts at 170,000k. The springs were OK, they didn't sag at all. But after taking the struts out, I found that 2 of them had maybe 1/10 the resistance as the other other two. They were really easy to expand or collapse by hand so it was like driving with no struts at all on two of the corners. The funny thing is, I had gotten so used to this, I never noticed anything wrong. I changed the struts only on the "su****ion" the struts were worn out, simply because I read somewhere that they are not supposed to last beyond about 120k. I replaced the stock struts with 4 new ones from Tokico and I noticed the difference immediately. For the first 10k miles, seems like the ride went from a little soft to harsh. Now after 75k on the Tokicos, the ride is neither harsh nor soft, it feels just right and I have no complaints about the handling. Tokicos have lifetime warranties like a lot of the brand-name aftermarket shock makers, so I'm confident they will last another 100k miles. The springs are still the originals and they work fine. Best, tq_mr2, '85 Mark1 with 247k and still counting.

06-14-2009, 03:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
como Road Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 514 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Sigh, I was afraid you'd say that. I've had two people tell me now that they think I'm riding stock struts with lowered springs, but it doesnt look right to me. I'm headed to napa now to see what they have to say, and pick up some lithium grease to finish off my brakes.

06-14-2009, 03:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
palos … Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Since you have the strut already removed and there is no tension on the spring, you may as well disassemble the strut assembly. Perhaps after you clean the spring you will be able to see if there is a stamping to identify the manufacturer and its part number. After removing the strut cartridge, you should similarly be able to determine the manufacturer and its part number, and see whether the struts and springs are the right parts for your car and are compatible.

06-14-2009, 04:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
como Road Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 514 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	I've already swapped the shocks inside the tower, that's why I had it apart in the first place. Parts I ordered were from twos-r-us, they're the same size as the ones I took out so I'm guessing it's just lowering springs...

06-15-2009, 12:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 310 Thanks: 0 Thanked 49 Times in 46 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	It could just be me, but it's possible the springs weren't "lowering" springs at all, but cut original springs. With Eibach Springs lowering 1" and KYB GR2 struts the springs are still tight in the carriers when I raise my 89 off the ground. And I can tell you it sits low. There are those out there that believe you can safely lower a car by chopping off coils to lower a car, but the bottom line is it throws off the whole spring rate the spring was rated for. May look cool on the show room floor, but start flogging it and catastrophic failure at a time Murphy chooses will cause you the most discomfort and pain. I just looked through the BGB Rear suspension section and the specifications section for a test height for the spring once it is setting on the floor and couldn't find one. Does anyone have an old set of springs to measure and post on here? Should get him close enough to be able to make a decision on his are good to go, or buy new springs.

06-15-2009, 03:45 AM	#18 (permalink)
mr29180 Cage fighter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Frisco (bay area) Posts: 869 Thanks: 1 Thanked 29 Times in 25 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	^^^ what he said it looks like it's been cut!! Well if ur dad is a mech just ask him if it's cut pretty sure he could tell... And plus if u see the top of the spring it's kinda rusted and it seems like no more tension on it too...

06-15-2009, 12:33 PM	#20 (permalink)
como Road Warrior Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 514 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	I may just post a wanted for a set of stock springs, I have no qualms with a completely stock car... maybe after I get a sticker and drive her around a bit I'll decide to do the front shocks too, at which point I think I could front for some new springs, but I wouldnt go nuts- $200 for a set of springs seems steep to me, and the cheapest I can find is twosrus, around $230. I'm just not a performance monger, and I'm not really into modding cars, so I guess that's going to set me aside from most of the people on the boards here... but might also make it easy to pick up some slightly better than stock but not great springs as someone else moves up the chain.