Modified MR2 buyer's checklist

RickyB · 03-14-2007, 09:18 PM

Are you thinking of buying a modified MR2 Turbo? It may be a fast way to get the power you always wanted without going through the effort of building one for yourself. It may also turn out to be a major case of buyer's remorse. Here is a short checklist for power modifications (I don't need to tell you about rust, salvage titles and all the other gotchas that come with buying any used car). It's not complete by any means, but it might just keep you out of trouble.

If the owner claims that it is making gobs of power, don't believe it unless you see a recent dyno chart from a reputable shop. Make sure the car is exactly in the same trim it was dynoed. It's too easy for the seller to pull a few critical pieces off and replace them with parts that aren't up to the task. Find out the fuel and boost level it was dynoed at. If you want 300rwhp all the time, don't purchase a setup that made 310rwhp at 25psi on race gas. Better yet, pay a good local shop for a baseline and remove all doubts.

Check the wiring throroughly. I cannot stress this enough. Pull out the trunk liner, look under the engine lid, look under the dash, pull off the center console the kick panels and inspect the inside of all the fuse boxes. Deduct big money for every T-tap you see. Be particularly wary of S-AFC, boost controller, EMS and piggyback installations that cut and splice into the stock wiring. People have paid me for tons of hours of wiring work just to get badly hacked up wiring removed and the original Toyota harnesses put back to a reliable state. Also pay close attention to how the wires are routed. In many cases inexperienced installers wire a boost controller so the only way to pull the engine harness out of the trunk to drop the engine is to cut the wires. Of course, these same installers use a single color wire so you cannot easily tell one from the other. If you see loose, naked wires running around all over the engine bay and/or the trunk, stay away from the car. Speaker wire in the engine bay? God forbid! What about unused connectors for removed stock equipment? These should all have been carefully taped up with electrical tape to prevent unwanted shorts or water damage. Inspect aftermarked fan and pump wiring carefully. Are they getting their power supply from the right place? Are there fuses close to the power source or is the entire setup ready to light off like a dry christmas tree tossed in a bonfire?

Look for missing bolts or bolts that don't look OEM. You can expect to see non-Toyota bolts on aftermarket kits, but having these all over the motor is a sure sign of shoddy work done by an inexperienced or inattentive person. Are the bolts on the exhaust system stainless or are they rusting in place? Is the distributor or fuel rail held on with just one bolt? Are any nuts or studs on the manifolds missing? If yes, you might want to give the car a pass.

Are there missing parts? Is the timing belt cover missing? If so, I'll bet the idler pulleys are rusted to hell. What about one or more of the engine grounds? Are the heat shields between the turbo and the gas tank missing? What about the battery? Is that puppy strapped down with the stock bar or is it ready to keep you off the track at your first track event? Are all the plastic undercovers on the car there and are they all held by more than one or two bolts? Missing parts are a sure sign that the car was not modified by somebody who paid attention to details. Some parts should be missing (like the cruise control--both units, not just the actuator) but other things should be there regardless. At the very least, make a list of the missing parts, get a quote for them deduct the cost of replacing them from the asking price.

Were holes made through the firewalls to get fuel or water lines routed? Obviously somebody never heard of bulkhead connectors or was too cheap or lazy to use them. You should deduct big time, especially if the holes were made with a sawzall.

Do the modifications make sense? If they are making 350rwhp on a stock IC, you need to be moving right along. Unfortunatelly, unless you trust the guy who built the car like a brother, you need to do your homework or at the very least run the mods list past someone who knows what they are doing to have it critiqued.

Is there a turbo kit? You better take a very close look. Is the center section properly clocked? Most turbo manufacturers specify that the oil feed must be no more than 5-10 degrees off vertical. If the oil feed is visibly clocked to one side, the turbo is probably already damaged. Start the car and warm it up. Do you see any visible signs of smoke? Do you smell any oil in the exhaust? Pull off the downpipe and see it there is any oil there. Check the shaft for play. What about the quality of the lines and the installation? Are there bolts or fasteners missing? Are the welds good? Did they clamp stainless steel braided lines on with hose clamps? Are any of the fittings loose or visibly leaking? All these point at a poorly assembled kit or an inexperienced installation job. Proceed with caution.

Take a close look at the vacuum lines, clamps and hoses. Are they in good shape or rotted and ready to pop off and either strand you or cause the overboost event that starts a new motor build? Are there clamps on all the vacuum lines that might see boost? What kind of shape are the turbo hoses in? Do the intercooler pipes and their routing look well thought out? My favorite was the car that came in with a silicone hose clamped right onto a smaller diameter silicone hose. Are there strange transitions between different diameters in places where they don't need to be? Are there more turns in the pipes than you encountered at your last hill climbing event?

A leak down test is a good idea on a used car, but it is essential before you put down big money on a modified turbo setup. The 3S motor may be non-inteference, but with higher lift aftermarket cams the possibility of bent valves is there and too many shops simply don't know what they are doing when they try to degree cams. Pull off the valve cover and check valve clearances. A well built motor will be on the tight end of the spec. A loosy-goosy set of measurements within spec but all over the map are a sign of either an older setup way past its prime or a poorly built head.

If the seller doesn't allow you to perform these tests on the setup then take a pass. Don't pay top dollar for somebody else's mistakes. It's better to pass up a deal than to get stuck with your next living nightmare.

If everything looks good, ask yourself honestly if the car is going to be enjoyable to drive for more than a few minutes. Is the fuel pump or the air-to-water intercooler pump so loud that you can hear it over the motor? Does the motor shake your seat so hard that you see blood on your next visit to the urinal? Is the car going to attract unwanted attention from law enforcement in your area even when you are granny driving? Is the clutch so hard that you end up with a left leg twice as strong as the right one after a couple weeks of driving it? These things may be expected on a 600rwhp setup, but hardly warranted at the 300rwhp level.

canadam · 03-14-2007, 09:44 PM

Excellent post, thanks Ricky.

Mach2 · 03-14-2007, 09:51 PM

THIS SEEMS TO BE EXTRA STICKY

Gairloch · 03-14-2007, 09:51 PM

Fantastic write up. Thanks, Ricky!

Weasy2k · 03-14-2007, 09:53 PM

Wow great work thanks Ricky!

Ncturnal · 03-14-2007, 10:08 PM

That's an excellent post that is backed by years of experience. As a buyer, I've seen both ends of the spectrum. My very first MR2 was a total nightmare, and needless to say I wasn't knowledgeable enough to know what I was doing in order to avoid it. Believe me, it's not something you want to experience. The points Ricky brings up are exactly why stock or close to stock MR2s are so desirable and sell better than many modified setups. That said, there can be some awesome deals to be had if you know what you are looking for. I've purchased cars that would cost $40,000 to duplicate for under $20,000. Ricky's post is crucial for anyone considering purchase of a highly modified car. Thanks for an excellent write-up Ricky!

PhatBoyMR2 · 03-15-2007, 03:23 AM

great post ricky, you seem to know your mr2's your knolwledge will help expand the mr2 thought process when it comes to new and old owners.

thanks

Mister2.2 · 03-15-2007, 09:25 AM

Great write up, even some good tips for buying an unmodified MR2.

condells08 · 04-17-2007, 03:07 AM

I'll be using this! I'm going to modify this into an actual check list.

thanks

PHOENIX · 04-17-2007, 05:54 AM

That is a great write-up and look forward to reading more of your knowledge in the future.

titimacg · 03-17-2008, 06:43 AM

some great tips ther def be using thias when i go to buy my mr2.... thanks

Midtenn · 03-18-2008, 10:25 PM

As a recent buyer of a previously modified MR2 Turbo, this is definately great information. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me, depending on how you look at it), the motor has stopped running before I purchased the car, but a missing EGR, Greddy Boost Cut Controller, HKS BOV, and missing heat shields tipped me off that somone has pulled alot of parts off and failed to install them with care. I bought it knowing its going to be a project though (two other daily driven vehicles).

comple2 · 07-16-2010, 04:59 AM

Can we still ask questions in this thread?

If so, I have a few: What if the oil warning light comes on after a test drive? What could that potentially mean? Simply low oil?.. Or something more serious like an big oil leak. I didn't see any oil puddle on the driveway or garage where the MR2 was kept.

Thanks for any insight on this.

ballijohn · 12-03-2010, 10:34 AM

As a recent buyer of a previously modified MR2 Turbo, this is definately great information. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me, depending on how you look at it), the motor has stopped running before I purchased the car, but a missing EGR, Greddy Boost Cut Controller, HKS BOV, and missing heat shields tipped me off that somone has pulled alot of parts off and failed to install them with care. I bought it knowing its going to be a project though (two other daily driven vehicles).

Techplaya86 · 01-03-2011, 11:39 PM

Hey I'm lookin to buy a 1991 mr2 sw20 with a jdm 3sgte swap, the guy
Has all the receipts for everything done to it. What I kno about
The car. It has a 3" downpipe with apexi Gt 4" outlet exhaust
Apexi nea air flow modifier Gen 3 LSD 5 speed tranny And a new ct26
Turbo the motor has about 55,000 miles the tranny has about 35,000
The turbo doesn't even have 100 miles on it and some other mods that
I can't remember at the moment. I don't kno much about these cars so
I was wondering if this sounds like a decent car everything in the engine
Bay looks brand new it's all nice and clean and perfect looking but I'm not
Sure about these cars so I need help for the mr2 pros
Thanx for everyones time

3azyy89 · 02-02-2011, 10:36 PM

when i bought my sw20 last spring...i got rip off so badly..the car looks so clean from the outside n inside ...but the engine health wasn't so good...the car died on me on the freeway day i bought it from driving home..but i was able to start it again and make it home from a long trip from LA...few months went by and i figure there was oil leakk coming from the valve cover..the coolant haven't been replace..coolant was so badd..and also the previous owner took off the check engine n low oil light bulb off so it wouldn't flash...found out after awhile..so my car wasn't able to pass smog..i got ripp off so badly

Tjzsin4given · 04-10-2011, 09:09 PM

Revive!

If you buy your modified car what would you guys list as things to do before enjoying the car (tune up wise)

03-14-2007, 09:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
RickyB Automotive Cartographer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Posts: 221 Thanks: 0 Thanked 122 Times in 33 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Modified MR2 buyer's checklist Are you thinking of buying a modified MR2 Turbo? It may be a fast way to get the power you always wanted without going through the effort of building one for yourself. It may also turn out to be a major case of buyer's remorse. Here is a short checklist for power modifications (I don't need to tell you about rust, salvage titles and all the other gotchas that come with buying any used car). It's not complete by any means, but it might just keep you out of trouble. If the owner claims that it is making gobs of power, don't believe it unless you see a recent dyno chart from a reputable shop. Make sure the car is exactly in the same trim it was dynoed. It's too easy for the seller to pull a few critical pieces off and replace them with parts that aren't up to the task. Find out the fuel and boost level it was dynoed at. If you want 300rwhp all the time, don't purchase a setup that made 310rwhp at 25psi on race gas. Better yet, pay a good local shop for a baseline and remove all doubts. Check the wiring throroughly. I cannot stress this enough. Pull out the trunk liner, look under the engine lid, look under the dash, pull off the center console the kick panels and inspect the inside of all the fuse boxes. Deduct big money for every T-tap you see. Be particularly wary of S-AFC, boost controller, EMS and piggyback installations that cut and splice into the stock wiring. People have paid me for tons of hours of wiring work just to get badly hacked up wiring removed and the original Toyota harnesses put back to a reliable state. Also pay close attention to how the wires are routed. In many cases inexperienced installers wire a boost controller so the only way to pull the engine harness out of the trunk to drop the engine is to cut the wires. Of course, these same installers use a single color wire so you cannot easily tell one from the other. If you see loose, naked wires running around all over the engine bay and/or the trunk, stay away from the car. Speaker wire in the engine bay? God forbid! What about unused connectors for removed stock equipment? These should all have been carefully taped up with electrical tape to prevent unwanted shorts or water damage. Inspect aftermarked fan and pump wiring carefully. Are they getting their power supply from the right place? Are there fuses close to the power source or is the entire setup ready to light off like a dry christmas tree tossed in a bonfire? Look for missing bolts or bolts that don't look OEM. You can expect to see non-Toyota bolts on aftermarket kits, but having these all over the motor is a sure sign of shoddy work done by an inexperienced or inattentive person. Are the bolts on the exhaust system stainless or are they rusting in place? Is the distributor or fuel rail held on with just one bolt? Are any nuts or studs on the manifolds missing? If yes, you might want to give the car a pass. Are there missing parts? Is the timing belt cover missing? If so, I'll bet the idler pulleys are rusted to hell. What about one or more of the engine grounds? Are the heat shields between the turbo and the gas tank missing? What about the battery? Is that puppy strapped down with the stock bar or is it ready to keep you off the track at your first track event? Are all the plastic undercovers on the car there and are they all held by more than one or two bolts? Missing parts are a sure sign that the car was not modified by somebody who paid attention to details. Some parts should be missing (like the cruise control--both units, not just the actuator) but other things should be there regardless. At the very least, make a list of the missing parts, get a quote for them deduct the cost of replacing them from the asking price. Were holes made through the firewalls to get fuel or water lines routed? Obviously somebody never heard of bulkhead connectors or was too cheap or lazy to use them. You should deduct big time, especially if the holes were made with a sawzall. Do the modifications make sense? If they are making 350rwhp on a stock IC, you need to be moving right along. Unfortunatelly, unless you trust the guy who built the car like a brother, you need to do your homework or at the very least run the mods list past someone who knows what they are doing to have it critiqued. Is there a turbo kit? You better take a very close look. Is the center section properly clocked? Most turbo manufacturers specify that the oil feed must be no more than 5-10 degrees off vertical. If the oil feed is visibly clocked to one side, the turbo is probably already damaged. Start the car and warm it up. Do you see any visible signs of smoke? Do you smell any oil in the exhaust? Pull off the downpipe and see it there is any oil there. Check the shaft for play. What about the quality of the lines and the installation? Are there bolts or fasteners missing? Are the welds good? Did they clamp stainless steel braided lines on with hose clamps? Are any of the fittings loose or visibly leaking? All these point at a poorly assembled kit or an inexperienced installation job. Proceed with caution. Take a close look at the vacuum lines, clamps and hoses. Are they in good shape or rotted and ready to pop off and either strand you or cause the overboost event that starts a new motor build? Are there clamps on all the vacuum lines that might see boost? What kind of shape are the turbo hoses in? Do the intercooler pipes and their routing look well thought out? My favorite was the car that came in with a silicone hose clamped right onto a smaller diameter silicone hose. Are there strange transitions between different diameters in places where they don't need to be? Are there more turns in the pipes than you encountered at your last hill climbing event? A leak down test is a good idea on a used car, but it is essential before you put down big money on a modified turbo setup. The 3S motor may be non-inteference, but with higher lift aftermarket cams the possibility of bent valves is there and too many shops simply don't know what they are doing when they try to degree cams. Pull off the valve cover and check valve clearances. A well built motor will be on the tight end of the spec. A loosy-goosy set of measurements within spec but all over the map are a sign of either an older setup way past its prime or a poorly built head. If the seller doesn't allow you to perform these tests on the setup then take a pass. Don't pay top dollar for somebody else's mistakes. It's better to pass up a deal than to get stuck with your next living nightmare. If everything looks good, ask yourself honestly if the car is going to be enjoyable to drive for more than a few minutes. Is the fuel pump or the air-to-water intercooler pump so loud that you can hear it over the motor? Does the motor shake your seat so hard that you see blood on your next visit to the urinal? Is the car going to attract unwanted attention from law enforcement in your area even when you are granny driving? Is the clutch so hard that you end up with a left leg twice as strong as the right one after a couple weeks of driving it? These things may be expected on a 600rwhp setup, but hardly warranted at the 300rwhp level. Last edited by RickyB; 03-27-2008 at 12:37 PM..

03-14-2007, 09:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
canadam MidshipExpress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Posts: 10,399 Thanks: 120 Thanked 142 Times in 121 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (34/100% )	Excellent post, thanks Ricky. __________________

03-14-2007, 10:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ncturnal NoAgendaShow.com Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 7,446 Thanks: 94 Thanked 158 Times in 125 Posts Blog Entries: 7 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (37/100% )	That's an excellent post that is backed by years of experience. As a buyer, I've seen both ends of the spectrum. My very first MR2 was a total nightmare, and needless to say I wasn't knowledgeable enough to know what I was doing in order to avoid it. Believe me, it's not something you want to experience. The points Ricky brings up are exactly why stock or close to stock MR2s are so desirable and sell better than many modified setups. That said, there can be some awesome deals to be had if you know what you are looking for. I've purchased cars that would cost $40,000 to duplicate for under $20,000. Ricky's post is crucial for anyone considering purchase of a highly modified car. Thanks for an excellent write-up Ricky! __________________ Brian - My MR2Trader Ads - Click here for order or shipping status if you've bought something from me recently. Technical Questions - Please post them on the forums. Others who may have the same problem don't benefit from a PM exchange. If you wish to have my input I have no problem with a PM containing a link to a thread you have already posted.

03-15-2007, 09:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
Mister2.2 Cheese it! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,561 Thanks: 121 Thanked 115 Times in 99 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Great write up, even some good tips for buying an unmodified MR2. __________________ --Josh MR2Trader.com Free to Buy and Sell your MR2 Parts!

12-03-2010, 10:34 AM	#14 (permalink)
ballijohn No Skills Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Hello every one As a recent buyer of a previously modified MR2 Turbo, this is definately great information. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me, depending on how you look at it), the motor has stopped running before I purchased the car, but a missing EGR, Greddy Boost Cut Controller, HKS BOV, and missing heat shields tipped me off that somone has pulled alot of parts off and failed to install them with care. I bought it knowing its going to be a project though (two other daily driven vehicles).

03-14-2007, 09:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mach2 Flame Retardant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 746 Thanks: 59 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	THIS SEEMS TO BE EXTRA STICKY

03-14-2007, 09:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
Gairloch Dreaming of apexes Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,313 Thanks: 139 Thanked 296 Times in 264 Posts Blog Entries: 4 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	Fantastic write up. Thanks, Ricky!

03-14-2007, 09:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Wow great work thanks Ricky!

03-15-2007, 03:23 AM	#7 (permalink)
PhatBoyMR2 Banned Seller Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 684 Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/86% )	great post ricky, you seem to know your mr2's your knolwledge will help expand the mr2 thought process when it comes to new and old owners. thanks

04-17-2007, 03:07 AM	#9 (permalink)
condells08 Dreamer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Southwest Florida Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I'll be using this! I'm going to modify this into an actual check list. thanks

04-17-2007, 05:54 AM	#10 (permalink)
PHOENIX Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Hiatus....... Posts: 9,266 Thanks: 92 Thanked 292 Times in 224 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (49/100% )	That is a great write-up and look forward to reading more of your knowledge in the future.

03-17-2008, 06:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
titimacg No Skills Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: ireland Posts: 13 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	some great tips ther def be using thias when i go to buy my mr2.... thanks

03-18-2008, 10:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
Midtenn No Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Posts: 16 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	As a recent buyer of a previously modified MR2 Turbo, this is definately great information. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me, depending on how you look at it), the motor has stopped running before I purchased the car, but a missing EGR, Greddy Boost Cut Controller, HKS BOV, and missing heat shields tipped me off that somone has pulled alot of parts off and failed to install them with care. I bought it knowing its going to be a project though (two other daily driven vehicles).

07-16-2010, 04:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
comple2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 47 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Can we still ask questions in this thread? If so, I have a few: What if the oil warning light comes on after a test drive? What could that potentially mean? Simply low oil?.. Or something more serious like an big oil leak. I didn't see any oil puddle on the driveway or garage where the MR2 was kept. Thanks for any insight on this.

01-03-2011, 11:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
Techplaya86 No Skills Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Looking to buy an mr2 need help Hey I'm lookin to buy a 1991 mr2 sw20 with a jdm 3sgte swap, the guy Has all the receipts for everything done to it. What I kno about The car. It has a 3" downpipe with apexi Gt 4" outlet exhaust Apexi nea air flow modifier Gen 3 LSD 5 speed tranny And a new ct26 Turbo the motor has about 55,000 miles the tranny has about 35,000 The turbo doesn't even have 100 miles on it and some other mods that I can't remember at the moment. I don't kno much about these cars so I was wondering if this sounds like a decent car everything in the engine Bay looks brand new it's all nice and clean and perfect looking but I'm not Sure about these cars so I need help for the mr2 pros Thanx for everyones time

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02-02-2011, 10:36 PM	#16 (permalink)
3azyy89 Cage Fighter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Fresno CA Posts: 119 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	when i bought my sw20 last spring...i got rip off so badly..the car looks so clean from the outside n inside ...but the engine health wasn't so good...the car died on me on the freeway day i bought it from driving home..but i was able to start it again and make it home from a long trip from LA...few months went by and i figure there was oil leakk coming from the valve cover..the coolant haven't been replace..coolant was so badd..and also the previous owner took off the check engine n low oil light bulb off so it wouldn't flash...found out after awhile..so my car wasn't able to pass smog..i got ripp off so badly

04-10-2011, 09:09 PM	#17 (permalink)
Tjzsin4given Found an MR2 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 573 Thanks: 31 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Revive! If you buy your modified car what would you guys list as things to do before enjoying the car (tune up wise)

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