Newbie First Post

JazzDad · 08-04-2006, 05:17 AM

Hi Everyone

I live in England (NE).

I don't have the MR2 - it's my son's - but I usually get stuck with looking after it! It's an SW20 1992. 3S-GE engine.

It has been leaking coolant recently and it looks as though it's coming from up under the exhaust manifold/heat shield area. From an exploded diagram it looks as though there are some O-rings involved in the coolant by-pass pipes.
Is this a known weak point?

I can let the engine idle for a long period and no leakage but when you come in from a road run then there's some coolant down on the undertray and also dripping down the front of the sump. This is a bit worrying because you start thinking cracked head/leaking head gasket under load and the extra pressure relieves through the weakest point.

Any previous experiences with this problem?

Raptor13x · 08-04-2006, 06:52 AM

Welcome to the board.

Some pictures would be very helpful in diagnosing your problem.

JazzDad · 08-04-2006, 12:03 PM

Thanks for the welcome.

Pictures are a bit difficult because you can't really see anything looking up from underneath on the cambelt side of the motor - the A/C unit is in the way amongst other things. The leak seems to be from that side. I could take one of the front side of the wet sump (do you call it an oilpan or something?) and of a wet plastic undertray but would that really help - I'll crawl back underneath if you think so.

PETC · 08-04-2006, 12:27 PM

Yeah, we call the wet sump an oil pan on this side of the pond.

You also might want to check the water pump. They don't break very often, but there are bearings in the impeller shaft that wear out over time and when they do wear out they can result in your waterpump pissing coolant.

JazzDad · 08-04-2006, 02:20 PM

We just call it a sump. It's only a wet sump when it's been out for a run and coolant has run down onto it. It fairly soon evaporates and becomes a sump again.

There is no water splashed around inside the timing cover casing which I thought might happen if it's a water pump seal problem

PETC · 08-04-2006, 02:39 PM

Is it leaking out of the head?

Mister2.2 · 08-04-2006, 07:56 PM

Any overheating? Is the oil clean or frothy?

JazzDad · 08-05-2006, 04:25 AM

I really can't tell where it's leaking from because it's so inaccessible you just can't see up to the top of the engine. All I know is it's coming from somewhere on the front side of the engine bay and on the timing belt side.
That's why I asked whether the bypass hose area had been a known problem.
I guess that I'm going to have to take off the exhaust manifold heat shielding sometime but I really don't look forward to that - siezed bolts, bolts snapping etc.

No the oil is clean - no frothing and it's not over heating which makes me think that maybe (fingers crossed) it's not a head gasket leaking gases into the coolant. I had a cracked head on a BMW years ago and that sent the temperature up.

Thanks for the replies.

Mid Engine Magic · 08-05-2006, 08:22 AM

We call this the hose from hell, a very well known problem on 3SGTE's. Depending on your mileage and how often the car sits without use it could point to water pump. (or other hoses in the heat area especially) Also how clean you keep your coolant and what type you use. (NOT the green!) I've had a WP fail miserably after cranking the car up for the first time in a few months and right after shut of it let go, spilling all the engine's coolant immediately.

The water pump has a bleeder hole so when the seal fails, it will leak in the area you're talking about. I'm not very familiar with that area of the 3SGE but I'm guessing there are similar water bypass hoses like the 3SGTE, one being the hose from hell!

Mid Engine Magic · 08-05-2006, 08:26 AM

Let me add this... we have this great spray lube/boltbreaker here called PB blaster. I can almost guarantee you won't break any bolts using that stuff! I used it once to remove a 1991 exhaust mani/cat that had been on a rusty mr2 for 117,000 miles, didn't break one bolt and I was sure I'd break half of them. You spray the stuff on, tap it, let it sit and repeat for 5 - 10 minutes and then take a crack at it!

The head gasket is not a problem area of a taken care of 3S series motor.

JazzDad · 08-05-2006, 03:27 PM

Thanks for that Mid Engine Magic. It does look like the heat shield has to come off to get a view of what's happening.

I must do a search for this wonder spray PB Blaster can't say I've heard of it over here.

JazzDad · 08-05-2006, 03:32 PM

Oh by the way the car is in regular use, just about daily but only on shortish (but knowing my son

very brisk) runs.

Good news about the head gasket - I had heard it's pretty bullet-proof.

AndrewMcG · 08-05-2006, 05:00 PM

Where in NE England are you? I used to live in Leeds.

Mister2.2 · 08-05-2006, 05:35 PM

PB Blaster is by far the best penetrating spray I have ever used. I'm sure you can order it online if you can't find it at a local shop.

Raptor13x · 08-05-2006, 06:02 PM

^ +1

Every mechanic I've ever known has used it. PB Blaster FTW

Mid Engine Magic · 08-05-2006, 06:51 PM

The heat shield is EASY to remove, I know the 3SGTE is 3-4 bolts, 12mm.

What coolant is in it, red orange or green? You only want toyo red.

What's your mileage and if it's over 60/120,000 miles has the timing belt and water pump service been done?

ZMR2 · 08-06-2006, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister2.2

PB Blaster is by far the best penetrating spray I have ever used. I'm sure you can order it online if you can't find it at a local shop.

Or liquid wrench, i think this works better

Mid Engine Magic · 08-06-2006, 03:27 AM

liquid wrench is like water compared to PB!!!! I have a can of LW right now and it plain out sux...

JazzDad · 08-06-2006, 06:11 AM

I live in Darlington now. Probably going down to Leeds with my son in a couple of days time but not in the MR2 - wouldn't like to risk it at the moment

Yes there are online sites to get PB Blaster I shall continue to see if I can find one in UK.

The mileage is 90+ thou. The timing belt was replaced at about 75 but the water pump was not touched.

It was running on red coolant for a couple of years prior to my changing it out, a few months ago, using a good quality glycol concentrate (Halfords) which is blue to start with but is coming out a greenish colour. When and if we get the leak sorted I shall invest in the "RED".

imweip · 08-06-2006, 12:53 PM

don't we have to use the red because of the type of radiator or whatevr we have? Doesn't using the green cause stuff to corrod? And the 'red' stuff everyone is saying is the dex cool stuff right?

08-04-2006, 05:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
JazzDad No Skills Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Newbie First Post Hi Everyone I live in England (NE). I don't have the MR2 - it's my son's - but I usually get stuck with looking after it! It's an SW20 1992. 3S-GE engine. It has been leaking coolant recently and it looks as though it's coming from up under the exhaust manifold/heat shield area. From an exploded diagram it looks as though there are some O-rings involved in the coolant by-pass pipes. Is this a known weak point? I can let the engine idle for a long period and no leakage but when you come in from a road run then there's some coolant down on the undertray and also dripping down the front of the sump. This is a bit worrying because you start thinking cracked head/leaking head gasket under load and the extra pressure relieves through the weakest point. Any previous experiences with this problem?

08-04-2006, 07:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mister2.2 Cheese it! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,561 Thanks: 121 Thanked 115 Times in 99 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Any overheating? Is the oil clean or frothy? __________________ --Josh MR2Trader.com Free to Buy and Sell your MR2 Parts!

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08-04-2006, 06:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
Raptor13x Legendary Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 3,997 Thanks: 7 Thanked 44 Times in 37 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	Welcome to the board. Some pictures would be very helpful in diagnosing your problem.

08-04-2006, 12:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
JazzDad No Skills Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks for the welcome. Pictures are a bit difficult because you can't really see anything looking up from underneath on the cambelt side of the motor - the A/C unit is in the way amongst other things. The leak seems to be from that side. I could take one of the front side of the wet sump (do you call it an oilpan or something?) and of a wet plastic undertray but would that really help - I'll crawl back underneath if you think so.

08-04-2006, 12:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,690 Thanks: 43 Thanked 65 Times in 53 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Yeah, we call the wet sump an oil pan on this side of the pond. You also might want to check the water pump. They don't break very often, but there are bearings in the impeller shaft that wear out over time and when they do wear out they can result in your waterpump pissing coolant.

08-04-2006, 02:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
JazzDad No Skills Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	We just call it a sump. It's only a wet sump when it's been out for a run and coolant has run down onto it. It fairly soon evaporates and becomes a sump again. There is no water splashed around inside the timing cover casing which I thought might happen if it's a water pump seal problem

08-04-2006, 02:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,690 Thanks: 43 Thanked 65 Times in 53 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Is it leaking out of the head?

08-05-2006, 04:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
JazzDad No Skills Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I really can't tell where it's leaking from because it's so inaccessible you just can't see up to the top of the engine. All I know is it's coming from somewhere on the front side of the engine bay and on the timing belt side. That's why I asked whether the bypass hose area had been a known problem. I guess that I'm going to have to take off the exhaust manifold heat shielding sometime but I really don't look forward to that - siezed bolts, bolts snapping etc. No the oil is clean - no frothing and it's not over heating which makes me think that maybe (fingers crossed) it's not a head gasket leaking gases into the coolant. I had a cracked head on a BMW years ago and that sent the temperature up. Thanks for the replies.

08-05-2006, 08:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mid Engine Magic Banned Seller Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: 420ville Posts: 54 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (-1/0% )	We call this the hose from hell, a very well known problem on 3SGTE's. Depending on your mileage and how often the car sits without use it could point to water pump. (or other hoses in the heat area especially) Also how clean you keep your coolant and what type you use. (NOT the green!) I've had a WP fail miserably after cranking the car up for the first time in a few months and right after shut of it let go, spilling all the engine's coolant immediately. The water pump has a bleeder hole so when the seal fails, it will leak in the area you're talking about. I'm not very familiar with that area of the 3SGE but I'm guessing there are similar water bypass hoses like the 3SGTE, one being the hose from hell!

08-05-2006, 08:26 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mid Engine Magic Banned Seller Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: 420ville Posts: 54 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (-1/0% )	Let me add this... we have this great spray lube/boltbreaker here called PB blaster. I can almost guarantee you won't break any bolts using that stuff! I used it once to remove a 1991 exhaust mani/cat that had been on a rusty mr2 for 117,000 miles, didn't break one bolt and I was sure I'd break half of them. You spray the stuff on, tap it, let it sit and repeat for 5 - 10 minutes and then take a crack at it! The head gasket is not a problem area of a taken care of 3S series motor.

08-05-2006, 03:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
JazzDad No Skills Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks for that Mid Engine Magic. It does look like the heat shield has to come off to get a view of what's happening. I must do a search for this wonder spray PB Blaster can't say I've heard of it over here.

08-05-2006, 03:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
JazzDad No Skills Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Oh by the way the car is in regular use, just about daily but only on shortish (but knowing my son very brisk) runs. Good news about the head gasket - I had heard it's pretty bullet-proof.

08-05-2006, 05:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
AndrewMcG Its not lag, Its foreplay Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 756 Thanks: 6 Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Where in NE England are you? I used to live in Leeds.

08-05-2006, 05:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
Mister2.2 Cheese it! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,561 Thanks: 121 Thanked 115 Times in 99 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	PB Blaster is by far the best penetrating spray I have ever used. I'm sure you can order it online if you can't find it at a local shop.

08-05-2006, 06:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
Raptor13x Legendary Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 3,997 Thanks: 7 Thanked 44 Times in 37 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	^ +1 Every mechanic I've ever known has used it. PB Blaster FTW

08-05-2006, 06:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
Mid Engine Magic Banned Seller Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: 420ville Posts: 54 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (-1/0% )	The heat shield is EASY to remove, I know the 3SGTE is 3-4 bolts, 12mm. What coolant is in it, red orange or green? You only want toyo red. What's your mileage and if it's over 60/120,000 miles has the timing belt and water pump service been done?

08-06-2006, 03:27 AM	#18 (permalink)
Mid Engine Magic Banned Seller Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: 420ville Posts: 54 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (-1/0% )	liquid wrench is like water compared to PB!!!! I have a can of LW right now and it plain out sux...

08-06-2006, 06:11 AM	#19 (permalink)
JazzDad No Skills Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I live in Darlington now. Probably going down to Leeds with my son in a couple of days time but not in the MR2 - wouldn't like to risk it at the moment Yes there are online sites to get PB Blaster I shall continue to see if I can find one in UK. The mileage is 90+ thou. The timing belt was replaced at about 75 but the water pump was not touched. It was running on red coolant for a couple of years prior to my changing it out, a few months ago, using a good quality glycol concentrate (Halfords) which is blue to start with but is coming out a greenish colour. When and if we get the leak sorted I shall invest in the "RED".

08-06-2006, 12:53 PM	#20 (permalink)
imweip Devil's Advocate for Hire Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 795 Thanks: 5 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	don't we have to use the red because of the type of radiator or whatevr we have? Doesn't using the green cause stuff to corrod? And the 'red' stuff everyone is saying is the dex cool stuff right?