Carbon Fibre Noob

Spork · 09-25-2006, 04:03 AM

Hi, I have yet to try carbon fibre (or fibreglass for that matter), but I had a few questions before I get started.
First, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what all the "1k" ,3k","6k", etc means when buying the fabric.
Also I was wondering what weight I should buy. My applications for it are first just going to be test parts, then I plan on making: A small spoiler (wing), a nonfunctional hood scoop, and finally a whole hood. I plan on using epoxy resin (unless someone says not to) and whatever fibre you reccomend.
I was also wondering if I should learn fibrelgass first? Or if it's okay just to jump right into CF. I've read up on this stuff alot, but I have yet to find specific answers on alot of things, so I'm sure I'll have more questions later. Thank you.

~Spork

hfmt93 · 09-29-2006, 09:36 PM

just start with cheap fg and learn the procedure. once you get that down you can use what you have learned to do the more expensive and harder to work with cf. get the woven fg to practice with so its more like cf.

Spork · 09-29-2006, 10:08 PM

Awesome, I'll try that first and learn by mistake. Thank you for the input

Spork

Spork · 10-07-2006, 01:32 AM

Sadly I do not know what type of fiberglass to get either, is there some sort of ideal for car part fabrication? I found like "Woven Roving" and such.

Code:

http://www.fiberglasssite.com

seems to have a good selection, and its really cheap compared to CF. Anyone have a reccomendation as to what I should buy? Is this good

Code:

http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/Detail?no=19

or is it too lightweight or what?

turboguy · 10-07-2006, 07:09 PM

Your going the right way starting with fiberglass instead of cf. What you should buy greatly depends on what your making. When it comes to making a part out of a mold (or making a mold for that matter) chopped strand glass is the way to go. You can cut it into smaller pieces to form around the more complex shapes and still easily bond to itself. Also, it builds much quicker (chopped strand is typically thicker than woven) Lastly, mat is normally stronger than woven glass too. The mat is a multi-directional fabric. The randomness of the glass strands help support in many directions. A woven fabric is bi-directional.

You will find that things such as hoods, wings, bumpers, etc. are made from chopped strand. Either from a chopper gun that sprays the glass/resin mix into a mold (lower quality and often oversaturation leading to thick or brittle areas) The other way is hand laid. This is much higher quality, but also more time consuming. You can easily control the amount of resin and glass that you put in a particular area. This also helps fitment since the part is one uniform thickness and cures at the same speed. Higher end companies like Border or Greddy/Trust hand lay their parts.

I'm sorry I went off on a tangent like that. I do that alot. I hope I kind of answered your question: FG mat is cheap and easy to get good strong results.

Spork · 10-07-2006, 07:41 PM

That's very good to know, thank you turboguy.

I bought some weaved FG and I really want to get started, I was looking at epoxy resins (from uscomposites) and I was thinking about getting the thin 635 resin, but I saw a few posts mentioning their Kleer Kote, I was wondering if this stuff is any good for part fabrication, or you just add it to the top of a finished product to make it look nice?

Best Regards,
Spork

MR2-M1 · 11-05-2006, 08:48 PM

There is some good info posted here. I purchased my goods at the local fiberglass store near me (yes there really is one). The guy sold me some Fiberbond Polyester resin, it is designed for laminating. Since I am repairing some major cracks and small stress cracks this has been working well. I bought both the woven cloth and the stranded, I used woven at first but after reading suggestions from previous post I tried the stranded and it seems to work the best for the contours I am repairing. I have attached links to the work I am doing if interested. The pictures arent that great and this is only the first layer for these spots.

MR2-M1

turboguy · 11-05-2006, 08:54 PM

It looks like your repairs are going well. I can't wait to see when you are done and painted. Thumbs up buddy!!

Spork · 11-06-2006, 07:47 PM

Glad to see some input, I hope your repairs are going better than my fiberglass adventure. I can't manage to get FG to form how I want it, and have ended up sticky/frusterated, but so far I've had success with my final products. I will try some actual parts when I get time here.

Spork

hfmt93 · 11-07-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spork

Glad to see some input, I hope your repairs are going better than my fiberglass adventure. I can't manage to get FG to form how I want it, and have ended up sticky/frusterated, but so far I've had success with my final products. I will try some actual parts when I get time here.

Spork

How are you trying to form it? what shape are you trying to make?

Spork · 11-07-2006, 09:11 PM

Well, I just wanted to get a feel for it, so I started by laminating clipboard (yes,

I failed at laminating a flat surface)

The real problem was that I couldn't get it to wrap around edges/corners (just like a 90 degree) to make it look professional. Aside from that, I ended up with an epoxied brush, tried to was it off, but i guess i didn't get all of it. What do you use to clean the brush after using epoxy on it? Acetone?

I'm going to try the kleer kote this weekend, maybe that will go better.

Spork

Acet · 11-07-2006, 10:03 PM

Alright here are some little tips as to how to do work with fiber glass and bondo. Learned it all from experience. So lets start.

As well as you all know, in United States, the more something costs the better it is. Using cheap Fiber Glass Resin(FGR) and bondo will do the work and will last long only if done right. Of course you can't compare the $10 can of FGR to $50 can of FGR because the $50 FGR has a lot of better qualities such as faster and harder drying and easier sanding. Same goes to Bondo.

Lets say that you have a hole the size of a softball (my case) in your rear bumper. In order to fix the hole, you will need the following items:

1 small can of FGR(includes harnener)
1 can of bondo compound (includes harnener)
1 pack of THIN CLOTH-LIKE fiber glass material.
1 small brush for painting
1 Ziplodk container (plastic)
Glue Gun
Glue stick(s) like 50 sticks for $1
Scissors
Sandpaper
Rubber GLOVES!!!
Rag
Tools to remove the bumper
Extention Cord
Chair

Alright so lets begin by pluging in the extention cord outside and then pluging in the glue gun into the extension cord. Feel free to pull out a chair that you can sit on. Now that that's done, you take off the bumper. That shouldn't be hard unless your IQ is below a 10 and if it is, I'm very sorry

Anyways place the bumper outsize so it stands up on its own and pull up a chair. PUT ON THE GLOVES! IT HELPS! Take the Scissors and the FG CLOTH Material (MUST GET THIN CLOTH, trust me it makes your life easier) and cut the Material so it covers up the hole from the inside of the bumper and has extra 2 inches on the sides. Once that is done, take the glue gun that is already hot and hot glue the cloth to the inside of the bumper. If the cloth that you bought it good, you should feel the glue coming through the cloth as you press on it. Let the glue dry and then make sure that the cloth is not moving. Now take the Ziplock container and pour in about 5 ounses of FGR. Then take out the hardnener and pour in 50 drops. Now stir the mixture with the brush and begin applying the FG on the cloth with the brush. You have 10 minutes so don't go and take a crap or something when you mix in the hardener. Make sure that the cloth is covered with FG and spread all the FG you have onto the cloth. Wait for about 30 minutes or until the FG becomes sticky. Once its sticky, mix 5 OZs again with 50 drops and put on the 2nd coat of FG. If you have the good FG cloth, then 2 is plenty. Let it dry over night, OUTSIDE. The FGR is extremely bad for you if inhaled so I use the mask but its your choice.

The next day, take the bumper and assemble comfortably in the chair. Take the Bondo compound and mix in the hardener. Use about 1 inch of hardener for Cigaret box of bondo. THE LESS HARDENER YOU USE THE LONGER IT WILL TAKE BUT THE HARDER IT WILL DRY! Flip the bumper to the outside and apply the bondo as needed to cover up the hole. Spread it out evenly. I know its hard. Let it dry for good 2 hours. Better save then sorry. Then take out the Sandpaper. You can use a sander or hand sand it but sander is much faster. Apply additional coats of bondo as needed. Use the 40 Grid to straighten it out and then get finer and finer grid to 2000. Once its all smooth, take a QTip and fill in the little air bubble holes with bondo. Let it dry and then carefully sand it down. Once its all sanded down and is as smooth as baby's ass, you're done with the hole.

Then comes the painting part. You can get it painted professionaly or you can get it painted professionaly unless you are good at painting....

BUMPER IN THE WORKS

I'll Post pics tomorrow of my after pics.

Acet · 11-07-2006, 10:10 PM

Actually i'll get some pics of the bumper right now...its about %70 done.

they're uploading to photobucket.com

should be ready by 10:30pm

Acet · 11-07-2006, 10:23 PM

Here it is about 70% done..

Acet · 11-07-2006, 10:27 PM

It will be done tomorrow.

Gairloch · 11-13-2006, 07:03 PM

Got finished project pics?

Acet · 11-13-2006, 08:45 PM

Yeah I'll get ya'll some finished pics tomorrow. Its still primered black but its on the car. Looks legit now.

hfmt93 · 11-26-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spork

Well, I just wanted to get a feel for it, so I started by laminating clipboard (yes,

I failed at laminating a flat surface)

The real problem was that I couldn't get it to wrap around edges/corners (just like a 90 degree) to make it look professional. Aside from that, I ended up with an epoxied brush, tried to was it off, but i guess i didn't get all of it. What do you use to clean the brush after using epoxy on it? Acetone?

I'm going to try the kleer kote this weekend, maybe that will go better.

Spork

You are not supposede to get it to go around 90 degree bends. Take some of your resin and mix it with some finely cut fiberglass fibers. this will thicken up and dry up the mixture. Take this "flox" and put it in the corners. Use a popsicle stick or something to get a smooth rounded radius instead of an abrupt 90 degree angle.
Put your glass over the layup and then wet it out with your resin.

As for the brushes: Put them in the freezer, it will stop the resin from hardening. Personally i would just get the dollar brushes and throw them away. The only thing i reuse is the squeege and just wash it off at the end of the night.

Jochen · 11-29-2006, 04:18 AM

Do you want to learn how to work with CARBON FIBER ??

=> Check it out, CF in 1 hour

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=carbon+fiber

Very well explained !!

09-25-2006, 04:03 AM	#1 (permalink)
Spork No Skills Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	CF and FG Questions Hi, I have yet to try carbon fibre (or fibreglass for that matter), but I had a few questions before I get started. First, I was wondering if anyone could tell me what all the "1k" ,3k","6k", etc means when buying the fabric. Also I was wondering what weight I should buy. My applications for it are first just going to be test parts, then I plan on making: A small spoiler (wing), a nonfunctional hood scoop, and finally a whole hood. I plan on using epoxy resin (unless someone says not to) and whatever fibre you reccomend. I was also wondering if I should learn fibrelgass first? Or if it's okay just to jump right into CF. I've read up on this stuff alot, but I have yet to find specific answers on alot of things, so I'm sure I'll have more questions later. Thank you. ~Spork Last edited by Spork; 10-19-2006 at 03:29 AM. Reason: Made it easier to read.

10-07-2006, 01:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Spork No Skills Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Sadly I do not know what type of fiberglass to get either, is there some sort of ideal for car part fabrication? I found like "Woven Roving" and such. Code: http://www.fiberglasssite.com seems to have a good selection, and its really cheap compared to CF. Anyone have a reccomendation as to what I should buy? Is this good Code: http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/Detail?no=19 or is it too lightweight or what?

10-07-2006, 07:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Spork No Skills Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	epoxy? That's very good to know, thank you turboguy. I bought some weaved FG and I really want to get started, I was looking at epoxy resins (from uscomposites) and I was thinking about getting the thin 635 resin, but I saw a few posts mentioning their Kleer Kote, I was wondering if this stuff is any good for part fabrication, or you just add it to the top of a finished product to make it look nice? Best Regards, Spork Last edited by Spork; 10-19-2006 at 03:28 AM. Reason: Updated

11-05-2006, 08:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
MR2-M1 MR2-M1 Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Fiberglass Repair There is some good info posted here. I purchased my goods at the local fiberglass store near me (yes there really is one). The guy sold me some Fiberbond Polyester resin, it is designed for laminating. Since I am repairing some major cracks and small stress cracks this has been working well. I bought both the woven cloth and the stranded, I used woven at first but after reading suggestions from previous post I tried the stranded and it seems to work the best for the contours I am repairing. I have attached links to the work I am doing if interested. The pictures arent that great and this is only the first layer for these spots. MR2-M1

11-07-2006, 10:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
Acet Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: alpharetta,ga Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Actually i'll get some pics of the bumper right now...its about %70 done. they're uploading to photobucket.com should be ready by 10:30pm Last edited by Acet; 11-07-2006 at 10:17 PM.

09-29-2006, 09:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
hfmt93 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 93 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	just start with cheap fg and learn the procedure. once you get that down you can use what you have learned to do the more expensive and harder to work with cf. get the woven fg to practice with so its more like cf.

09-29-2006, 10:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Spork No Skills Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Awesome, I'll try that first and learn by mistake. Thank you for the input Spork

10-07-2006, 07:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
turboguy Resident Composites Guy Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 877 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Your going the right way starting with fiberglass instead of cf. What you should buy greatly depends on what your making. When it comes to making a part out of a mold (or making a mold for that matter) chopped strand glass is the way to go. You can cut it into smaller pieces to form around the more complex shapes and still easily bond to itself. Also, it builds much quicker (chopped strand is typically thicker than woven) Lastly, mat is normally stronger than woven glass too. The mat is a multi-directional fabric. The randomness of the glass strands help support in many directions. A woven fabric is bi-directional. You will find that things such as hoods, wings, bumpers, etc. are made from chopped strand. Either from a chopper gun that sprays the glass/resin mix into a mold (lower quality and often oversaturation leading to thick or brittle areas) The other way is hand laid. This is much higher quality, but also more time consuming. You can easily control the amount of resin and glass that you put in a particular area. This also helps fitment since the part is one uniform thickness and cures at the same speed. Higher end companies like Border or Greddy/Trust hand lay their parts. I'm sorry I went off on a tangent like that. I do that alot. I hope I kind of answered your question: FG mat is cheap and easy to get good strong results.

11-05-2006, 08:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
turboguy Resident Composites Guy Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 877 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	It looks like your repairs are going well. I can't wait to see when you are done and painted. Thumbs up buddy!!

11-06-2006, 07:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
Spork No Skills Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Glad to see some input, I hope your repairs are going better than my fiberglass adventure. I can't manage to get FG to form how I want it, and have ended up sticky/frusterated, but so far I've had success with my final products. I will try some actual parts when I get time here. Spork

11-07-2006, 09:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Spork No Skills Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well, I just wanted to get a feel for it, so I started by laminating clipboard (yes, I failed at laminating a flat surface) The real problem was that I couldn't get it to wrap around edges/corners (just like a 90 degree) to make it look professional. Aside from that, I ended up with an epoxied brush, tried to was it off, but i guess i didn't get all of it. What do you use to clean the brush after using epoxy on it? Acetone? I'm going to try the kleer kote this weekend, maybe that will go better. Spork

11-07-2006, 10:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
Acet Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: alpharetta,ga Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Alright here are some little tips as to how to do work with fiber glass and bondo. Learned it all from experience. So lets start. As well as you all know, in United States, the more something costs the better it is. Using cheap Fiber Glass Resin(FGR) and bondo will do the work and will last long only if done right. Of course you can't compare the $10 can of FGR to $50 can of FGR because the $50 FGR has a lot of better qualities such as faster and harder drying and easier sanding. Same goes to Bondo. Lets say that you have a hole the size of a softball (my case) in your rear bumper. In order to fix the hole, you will need the following items: 1 small can of FGR(includes harnener) 1 can of bondo compound (includes harnener) 1 pack of THIN CLOTH-LIKE fiber glass material. 1 small brush for painting 1 Ziplodk container (plastic) Glue Gun Glue stick(s) like 50 sticks for $1 Scissors Sandpaper Rubber GLOVES!!! Rag Tools to remove the bumper Extention Cord Chair Alright so lets begin by pluging in the extention cord outside and then pluging in the glue gun into the extension cord. Feel free to pull out a chair that you can sit on. Now that that's done, you take off the bumper. That shouldn't be hard unless your IQ is below a 10 and if it is, I'm very sorry Anyways place the bumper outsize so it stands up on its own and pull up a chair. PUT ON THE GLOVES! IT HELPS! Take the Scissors and the FG CLOTH Material (MUST GET THIN CLOTH, trust me it makes your life easier) and cut the Material so it covers up the hole from the inside of the bumper and has extra 2 inches on the sides. Once that is done, take the glue gun that is already hot and hot glue the cloth to the inside of the bumper. If the cloth that you bought it good, you should feel the glue coming through the cloth as you press on it. Let the glue dry and then make sure that the cloth is not moving. Now take the Ziplock container and pour in about 5 ounses of FGR. Then take out the hardnener and pour in 50 drops. Now stir the mixture with the brush and begin applying the FG on the cloth with the brush. You have 10 minutes so don't go and take a crap or something when you mix in the hardener. Make sure that the cloth is covered with FG and spread all the FG you have onto the cloth. Wait for about 30 minutes or until the FG becomes sticky. Once its sticky, mix 5 OZs again with 50 drops and put on the 2nd coat of FG. If you have the good FG cloth, then 2 is plenty. Let it dry over night, OUTSIDE. The FGR is extremely bad for you if inhaled so I use the mask but its your choice. The next day, take the bumper and assemble comfortably in the chair. Take the Bondo compound and mix in the hardener. Use about 1 inch of hardener for Cigaret box of bondo. THE LESS HARDENER YOU USE THE LONGER IT WILL TAKE BUT THE HARDER IT WILL DRY! Flip the bumper to the outside and apply the bondo as needed to cover up the hole. Spread it out evenly. I know its hard. Let it dry for good 2 hours. Better save then sorry. Then take out the Sandpaper. You can use a sander or hand sand it but sander is much faster. Apply additional coats of bondo as needed. Use the 40 Grid to straighten it out and then get finer and finer grid to 2000. Once its all smooth, take a QTip and fill in the little air bubble holes with bondo. Let it dry and then carefully sand it down. Once its all sanded down and is as smooth as baby's ass, you're done with the hole. Then comes the painting part. You can get it painted professionaly or you can get it painted professionaly unless you are good at painting.... BUMPER IN THE WORKS I'll Post pics tomorrow of my after pics.

11-07-2006, 10:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
Acet Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: alpharetta,ga Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Here it is about 70% done..

11-07-2006, 10:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
Acet Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: alpharetta,ga Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	It will be done tomorrow.

11-13-2006, 07:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
Gairloch Dreaming of apexes Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 4,472 Thanks: 115 Thanked 222 Times in 195 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	Got finished project pics?

12-06-2006, 06:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
olda$$85supra No Skills &nbs

11-13-2006, 08:45 PM	#17 (permalink)
Acet Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: alpharetta,ga Posts: 440 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Yeah I'll get ya'll some finished pics tomorrow. Its still primered black but its on the car. Looks legit now.

11-29-2006, 04:18 AM	#19 (permalink)
Jochen No Skills Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Diksmuide, Belgium Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Work with CF Do you want to learn how to work with CARBON FIBER ?? => Check it out, CF in 1 hour http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=carbon+fiber Very well explained !!