Random, complete, system freeze.

PETC · 02-02-2009, 03:08 AM

Computer has been running PERFECT since I got my new TB HD and started with a fresh install, but the past couple of days some strange things have been happening.

I downloaded a stopwatch program because I needed to time something. Every time I would run it, my system would start to hang and sometimes completely lock up, only thing that worked was a cold shutdown.

This program has worked on this computer before the new hard drive and never had a problem. Also, the system will do the same thing sometimes when browsing the web with Firefox. Very infrequently, but it still occurs and the only way to fix it is to shut down and restart the computer.

What the hell is going on? No abnormal programs are running, I've got ATI Catalyst Control center booting up and that's about it.

Ku-sama · 02-02-2009, 03:31 AM

get on AIM

PETC · 02-02-2009, 01:06 PM

I'm at class, anything you can do for me here?

Luni · 02-02-2009, 01:13 PM

No bluescreen? Just a lockup?

Usually lockups are what we call "hard locks" or related to hardware. Most the time software will trigger a bluescreen. Sometimes hardware will too.

The first thing Id do is open it up, reseat all the cards and the memory. If that doesnt fix it, Id download memcheck or microsofts memory diagnostic tool and run it. If you have multiple sticks of memory and they check out together, take one out, run it. If it passes, swap it with the other one, run it. If they pass seperately, your memory is good. Ive seen several times people running dual channel memory pass memtest with both sticks, but fail with them seperately.

Thats a good place to start.

PETC · 02-02-2009, 04:30 PM

Yep, no BSOD, just a complete system freeze.

I thought memory, so I'll download memcheck when I get home.

31337 · 02-05-2009, 01:39 AM

next time it happens check the event viewer (start, run, eventvwr) check the application and the system logs. It could be a firmware issue with the HD. I would check the website of the company that makes it and see if there are any updates. I would also update your BIOS because it might not handle that large of a HD properly.

PETC · 02-05-2009, 01:41 PM

Forgot about the event viewer... just checked it... Yep, around the time I was having most of the problems there are like 20 HD errors.

The HD works fine, I've got two partitions, a 10GB section for XP and then my other 88X GB chunk for everything else.

It ONLY seemed to happen under the following circumstances:

1. Completly randomly during normal browsing with firefox (Rare, has only happened maybe 2 times)
2. I downloaded a stopwatch app because I am trying to beat the #1 world record for fastest full completion of Super Mario Brothers on the NES and needed to time myself. Before I fixed my NES (Which I just did recently <3) I was playing on my computer with an emulator and an Xbox 360 controller. When I played the emulator and ran the stopwatch app at the same time, my computer would ALWAYS crash.

Always.

I still haven't run memcheck yet because I'm not entirely sure how to install it, I think it might be for Linux only? Not sure... maybe I'm just retarded. I also downloaded Microsoft's memory tester but I do not have any CDRs right now, so I can't burn a bootable ISO. I might have a CDRW somewhere...

But regardless, I'm pretty sure it's a hardware issue with my hard drive. I'm not sure if there are any more updates for my craptastic Dell Bios, but I'll look. Thanks for the advice.

Is it more likely that it is simply a problem with the way the hardware is communicating with the bios, or do you think it's possible that the drive is damaged?

PETC · 02-05-2009, 01:59 PM

I think I figured it out. The error read: "An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation."

Now, I have one HD, but two partitions, and on my 88X GB partition I have up to 2GB set aside for Virtual Memory, on my 10GB OS partition I have none (C:/) I also have 4GB of DDR RAM, so, unlikely that I'd run up my paging file...

Anyways, I think since I had NO paging file on C:/ drive perhaps the stopwatch app wasn't smart enough to look elsewhere, only looked to C:/, refused to use REAL memory and insists on using virtual memory, found none, crashed the computer.

That's my guess at least... I set up a 128-512MB paging file on C:/ drive to hopefully avoid these problems in the future.

The only thing that would blow my theory to pieces is if my HD1 they meant my 88X GB partition... because if they meant my 10 GB C:/ drive I think it would have said HD0... Not sure.

31337 · 02-05-2009, 02:54 PM

move your page file from c: to d:, you might be running out of swap file(page file) space. right click on my computer, hit properties then go under advanced, look for the performance, click the button then go under the advanced tab. look for virtual memory and make the change there. I would still update the BIOS on your motherboard because it might not handle the large drive correctly. make sure you remove the page file from c: after you create the one on d:

PETC · 02-05-2009, 04:22 PM

I never had a page file on C:/.

My page file was always on my F:/ drive which was the left over space on my terabyte drive, around 920 GB. I had alloted 1028-2056 MB of virtual memory on that drive. I just recently (today) added the 128-512 MB page file onto the C:/ drive.

31337 · 02-05-2009, 09:24 PM

hmm, well then since its not on your c:\ it really shouldn't matter, paging errors are usually hardware related. What kind of motherboard do you have? Usually one piece of hardware is too slow for another piece of hardware.

PETC · 02-06-2009, 02:01 AM

Whatever motherboard comes in a craptastic Dell Dimension 8300.

31337 · 02-06-2009, 02:13 AM

for all your dell needs

Drivers & Downloads

I would verify your BIOS version and make sure its the latest and greatest. I would also update your SATA firmware. its listed under the SATA drives, you might need to download the SATA utility. Make sure your write caching is turned on. I'm sorry its late and my mind is still set on this blogging server I'm setting up. My domain controller is having a bad day and making my life not so fun.

31337 · 02-06-2009, 02:13 AM

for all your dell needs

Drivers & Downloads

I would verify your BIOS version and make sure its the latest and greatest. I would also update your SATA firmware. its listed under the SATA drives, you might need to download the SATA utility. Make sure your write caching is turned on. I'm sorry its late and my mind is still set on this blogging server I'm setting up. My domain controller is having a bad day and making my life not so fun.

Recklesss · 02-06-2009, 11:46 AM

31337 · 02-06-2009, 12:33 PM

your BIOS should be able to handle it properly, but I just want to make sure you are up to date with the BIOS and SATA firmware in case it is the BIOS or the SATA firmware. Since its a replacement drive I doubt you have the Dell utility partition anymore (that actually had some good utilities on it for these sort of issues) because there is a chance it could be your motherboard, it could be your HD. I doubt its a OS/software issue.

PETC · 02-06-2009, 01:13 PM

Well, I completed a file system scan on both C:/ and F:/ drive and came back with nothing. Defraged both drives.

That Bios firmware update is the same one I applied YEARS ago, so I've got the current bios. I'll be downloading the SATA drivers and trying that.

Luni · 02-06-2009, 03:46 PM

Your page file should be on the quicker of the hard drives.

If youre broken into partitions, remember you cant do multiple read/write operations on the same HDD, so since everything is already on C, you should just stop trying to be smarter than windows and put it on C.

Your page file should be set to CUSTOM size, and exactly twice as much physical memory as you have in the system.

Then once youve done that, download page defrag run it, and let it defrag your new page file.

That should fix your issue if its just Page File related.

Another thing, you should just buy a storage drive, and stop multi partitioning your HDD. It really slows you down because the drive cant perform mulitple read/write operations at the same time so you get lag. If the lag is extreme enough, the page file will crash and youll bluescreen.

PETC · 02-06-2009, 04:30 PM

I have a TB HD and have allocated 10GB for a OS partition, that is all that is on the C:/ drive. I've done this with all of my computers since forever and it has always worked flawlessly.

Luni · 02-06-2009, 05:21 PM

Well like I said, you cant read/write at the same time. And a read/write event cant span volumes because each volume has its own partition table. Since most of the reading gets done from your C drive, your paging file should be on same drive as your OS unless the secondary drive is its own drive on its own bus and is as fast as your OS drive.

Just my advice dude. Im not saying its the reason why your comp is messing up now, Im just saying its how Id set it up. This sort of stuff is what i do for a living. Im pretty good at it.

02-02-2009, 03:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Random, complete, system freeze. Computer has been running PERFECT since I got my new TB HD and started with a fresh install, but the past couple of days some strange things have been happening. I downloaded a stopwatch program because I needed to time something. Every time I would run it, my system would start to hang and sometimes completely lock up, only thing that worked was a cold shutdown. This program has worked on this computer before the new hard drive and never had a problem. Also, the system will do the same thing sometimes when browsing the web with Firefox. Very infrequently, but it still occurs and the only way to fix it is to shut down and restart the computer. What the hell is going on? No abnormal programs are running, I've got ATI Catalyst Control center booting up and that's about it.

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02-02-2009, 03:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ku-sama Cage Fighter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 1,462 Thanks: 8 Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	get on AIM

02-02-2009, 01:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	I'm at class, anything you can do for me here?

02-02-2009, 01:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
Luni ST185 Powered SW20 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Salt Lake City Utah Posts: 2,961 Thanks: 9 Thanked 106 Times in 92 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	No bluescreen? Just a lockup? Usually lockups are what we call "hard locks" or related to hardware. Most the time software will trigger a bluescreen. Sometimes hardware will too. The first thing Id do is open it up, reseat all the cards and the memory. If that doesnt fix it, Id download memcheck or microsofts memory diagnostic tool and run it. If you have multiple sticks of memory and they check out together, take one out, run it. If it passes, swap it with the other one, run it. If they pass seperately, your memory is good. Ive seen several times people running dual channel memory pass memtest with both sticks, but fail with them seperately. Thats a good place to start.

02-02-2009, 04:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Yep, no BSOD, just a complete system freeze. I thought memory, so I'll download memcheck when I get home.

02-05-2009, 01:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
31337 Have Gun, Will Travel Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Reston, Virginia Posts: 389 Thanks: 51 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	next time it happens check the event viewer (start, run, eventvwr) check the application and the system logs. It could be a firmware issue with the HD. I would check the website of the company that makes it and see if there are any updates. I would also update your BIOS because it might not handle that large of a HD properly.

02-05-2009, 01:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Forgot about the event viewer... just checked it... Yep, around the time I was having most of the problems there are like 20 HD errors. The HD works fine, I've got two partitions, a 10GB section for XP and then my other 88X GB chunk for everything else. It ONLY seemed to happen under the following circumstances: 1. Completly randomly during normal browsing with firefox (Rare, has only happened maybe 2 times) 2. I downloaded a stopwatch app because I am trying to beat the #1 world record for fastest full completion of Super Mario Brothers on the NES and needed to time myself. Before I fixed my NES (Which I just did recently <3) I was playing on my computer with an emulator and an Xbox 360 controller. When I played the emulator and ran the stopwatch app at the same time, my computer would ALWAYS crash. Always. I still haven't run memcheck yet because I'm not entirely sure how to install it, I think it might be for Linux only? Not sure... maybe I'm just retarded. I also downloaded Microsoft's memory tester but I do not have any CDRs right now, so I can't burn a bootable ISO. I might have a CDRW somewhere... But regardless, I'm pretty sure it's a hardware issue with my hard drive. I'm not sure if there are any more updates for my craptastic Dell Bios, but I'll look. Thanks for the advice. Is it more likely that it is simply a problem with the way the hardware is communicating with the bios, or do you think it's possible that the drive is damaged?

02-05-2009, 01:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	I think I figured it out. The error read: "An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation." Now, I have one HD, but two partitions, and on my 88X GB partition I have up to 2GB set aside for Virtual Memory, on my 10GB OS partition I have none (C:/) I also have 4GB of DDR RAM, so, unlikely that I'd run up my paging file... Anyways, I think since I had NO paging file on C:/ drive perhaps the stopwatch app wasn't smart enough to look elsewhere, only looked to C:/, refused to use REAL memory and insists on using virtual memory, found none, crashed the computer. That's my guess at least... I set up a 128-512MB paging file on C:/ drive to hopefully avoid these problems in the future. The only thing that would blow my theory to pieces is if my HD1 they meant my 88X GB partition... because if they meant my 10 GB C:/ drive I think it would have said HD0... Not sure.

02-05-2009, 02:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
31337 Have Gun, Will Travel Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Reston, Virginia Posts: 389 Thanks: 51 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	move your page file from c: to d:, you might be running out of swap file(page file) space. right click on my computer, hit properties then go under advanced, look for the performance, click the button then go under the advanced tab. look for virtual memory and make the change there. I would still update the BIOS on your motherboard because it might not handle the large drive correctly. make sure you remove the page file from c: after you create the one on d:

02-05-2009, 04:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	I never had a page file on C:/. My page file was always on my F:/ drive which was the left over space on my terabyte drive, around 920 GB. I had alloted 1028-2056 MB of virtual memory on that drive. I just recently (today) added the 128-512 MB page file onto the C:/ drive.

02-05-2009, 09:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
31337 Have Gun, Will Travel Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Reston, Virginia Posts: 389 Thanks: 51 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	hmm, well then since its not on your c:\ it really shouldn't matter, paging errors are usually hardware related. What kind of motherboard do you have? Usually one piece of hardware is too slow for another piece of hardware.

02-06-2009, 02:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Whatever motherboard comes in a craptastic Dell Dimension 8300.

02-06-2009, 02:13 AM	#13 (permalink)
31337 Have Gun, Will Travel Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Reston, Virginia Posts: 389 Thanks: 51 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	for all your dell needs Drivers & Downloads I would verify your BIOS version and make sure its the latest and greatest. I would also update your SATA firmware. its listed under the SATA drives, you might need to download the SATA utility. Make sure your write caching is turned on. I'm sorry its late and my mind is still set on this blogging server I'm setting up. My domain controller is having a bad day and making my life not so fun.

02-06-2009, 02:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
31337 Have Gun, Will Travel Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Reston, Virginia Posts: 389 Thanks: 51 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	for all your dell needs Drivers & Downloads I would verify your BIOS version and make sure its the latest and greatest. I would also update your SATA firmware. its listed under the SATA drives, you might need to download the SATA utility. Make sure your write caching is turned on. I'm sorry its late and my mind is still set on this blogging server I'm setting up. My domain controller is having a bad day and making my life not so fun.

02-06-2009, 11:46 AM	#15 (permalink)
Recklesss Ruler of Signatures Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 359 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )

02-06-2009, 12:33 PM	#16 (permalink)
31337 Have Gun, Will Travel Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Reston, Virginia Posts: 389 Thanks: 51 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	your BIOS should be able to handle it properly, but I just want to make sure you are up to date with the BIOS and SATA firmware in case it is the BIOS or the SATA firmware. Since its a replacement drive I doubt you have the Dell utility partition anymore (that actually had some good utilities on it for these sort of issues) because there is a chance it could be your motherboard, it could be your HD. I doubt its a OS/software issue.

02-06-2009, 01:13 PM	#17 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	Well, I completed a file system scan on both C:/ and F:/ drive and came back with nothing. Defraged both drives. That Bios firmware update is the same one I applied YEARS ago, so I've got the current bios. I'll be downloading the SATA drivers and trying that.

02-06-2009, 03:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
Luni ST185 Powered SW20 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Salt Lake City Utah Posts: 2,961 Thanks: 9 Thanked 106 Times in 92 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	Your page file should be on the quicker of the hard drives. If youre broken into partitions, remember you cant do multiple read/write operations on the same HDD, so since everything is already on C, you should just stop trying to be smarter than windows and put it on C. Your page file should be set to CUSTOM size, and exactly twice as much physical memory as you have in the system. Then once youve done that, download page defrag run it, and let it defrag your new page file. That should fix your issue if its just Page File related. Another thing, you should just buy a storage drive, and stop multi partitioning your HDD. It really slows you down because the drive cant perform mulitple read/write operations at the same time so you get lag. If the lag is extreme enough, the page file will crash and youll bluescreen.

02-06-2009, 04:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
PETC √(176400) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,412 Thanks: 27 Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (4/100% )	I have a TB HD and have allocated 10GB for a OS partition, that is all that is on the C:/ drive. I've done this with all of my computers since forever and it has always worked flawlessly.

02-06-2009, 05:21 PM	#20 (permalink)
Luni ST185 Powered SW20 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Salt Lake City Utah Posts: 2,961 Thanks: 9 Thanked 106 Times in 92 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	Well like I said, you cant read/write at the same time. And a read/write event cant span volumes because each volume has its own partition table. Since most of the reading gets done from your C drive, your paging file should be on same drive as your OS unless the secondary drive is its own drive on its own bus and is as fast as your OS drive. Just my advice dude. Im not saying its the reason why your comp is messing up now, Im just saying its how Id set it up. This sort of stuff is what i do for a living. Im pretty good at it.