Yet another 20V swap :)

[sandsz]

Hello! My name is Adam and I'm from Stone Mountain, GA. I joined this board a few days ago saying I'm going to do a 20V swap on my MKI MR2. Well today we took out the 4age motor (anyone need a 212K red-top 4AGE with C50 Trans?? lol, I'm thinking gokart ;p).

We planed the cooling routes as well as dumped the power-steering (duh) and AC compressor from the Silver Top. I shaved the passenger side's engine guard to make the axle fit with no problems. We will be doing the shifter-linkage mod (I have the oil seals!) and finally MR220V is doing the wiring harness work because he is awesome like that. I'm going for a Black Top A/T ECU per MR220V's suggestion. I was LLLUUCKKKYY and found, bought and received one in a very short time. MR220V was so kind as to supply the MAP. I'm looking to see if I can convert the C56 into a cable speedo instead of a sensor since the C50/52 and C56 trannys are exactly the same cast (except of course for the started mountings).

Tomorrow we are to mock up the exhaust using the 20V downpipe and collector. I have a hi-flow cat and big-old exhaust can. I usally use a cherrybomb because they sound good on anything, but I'll try this out first just to see if it sounds ok. I matched an AC belt and got some Denso plugs (EXPENSIVE!), and some collector gasket/donuts. So if all goes well I'll have the engine up in the bay ready for a harness by the end of the day. If I'm really lucky then I'll have the exhaust installed and ready as well.

On a side note, Fuzion ZTis (on eagle 15" rims) are very very nice tires. I compair them to Falkens in just about every department but one, sidewall tread which is really nice for those high-speed long turns.

Wish me luck!

[sandsz]

Ok, old engine out. SilverTop C56 tranny modified for shifter linkage. Protector shield shaved for axle clearence. Coolent re-routed. Silvertop freshened and now installed, no problems. Just waiting for wiring harness! I should be able to fill her up with oil and greese, hook up fuel, coolent, vaccummee and map sensor and fire her up!

[sandsz]

Ok, new engine has been modified and installed. With the hard work of mr220v, the harness was a snap on affair with only a minor mis-communication on what parts I was using, but it works great. Runs great, revs great, shifts great, etc.

BTW I'm running a SilverTop MT with a Blacktop A/T ECU.

Tomorrow I shake it down for coolent leaks, oil leaks, Air flow and finally install some sort of exhaust to get it home so I can weld up some goodies. I already know I need to move the oil sending unit senor from the 16V to the 20V for the gauge to work right, after that I need to buy a mechanical speedo gear assymb. because my 16V one broke then finally get a new throttle cable and route it via m220v's advice.

This is pretty much hands-down one of the easiest motor swaps that can be done. With the right planning, right parts, right tools and mr220v's engine harness, it took about 12 hours work time and around 5 hours plan time (also getting parts) to uninstall the old motor, modify the new transmission to accept the reverse shift pattern, then install the new motor + harness and coolent mod.

So wish my luck on my shakedown day Sunday!

[sandsz]

Ok, shake down revealed 1 bad spark plug wire that the clip broke off of so you press it down and the engine runs great, let go and it misses on #2. Also the ALT belt was a little loose.

Things to finish:
A) Get my reverse gear connector from MR220V so I can have reverse lights.
B) Get a mechanical speedo tranny gear, 16V one is stuuuccckk.
C) Spark plug wire and clip
D) Throttle Cable -> on one thread!
E) Finish off exhaust with Cat and Muffler.

With those items I'm done. Oil Sending Unit had to be moved from the 16V to the 20V because its a gauge with voltage not just an on/off light.

Impressions so far:
Even with the #2 cyl. not firing, the 20V developed more power then the 16V. It will be scary with all 4 on the floor.

Throttle response is great! Much more crisp then the 16V. BlackTop A/T ECU means velocity stacks in my future.

The BlackTop A/T ECU rev limiter is 8500 RPM

Sounds mean. Very mean. But I gotta quiet her down

I'll try to get her on the dyno after everything is buttoned down and give you guys some real-world values. The last time I dynoed a 16V MR2 I got 88BHP with around 88FT/Lbs torque.

I'm gonna go order my parts and I'll install everything on my next day off Wednesday. Over all I think me and my brother could do the swap in about 2 days if everything was good and MR220V did the wiring harness. I'd say about 2 weeks if we had to wire it up by ourselves

[mr220v]

This one came together fast. 16v was pulled on the 24th, and the 20v was running on the 27th.

[Mista 2]

damn a lot faster than mine, 3 weeks and counting

[sandsz]

Hey Hey HEY! I figured out the #3 (I thought it was #2!) Cyl misfire problem! Its was my freaking ECU case!! The ecu case was dented which caused it to ground out and make the #3 injector pulse wildly at random.

So I took the top cover off, dented it back and put some anti-static materal out of my 4AGE ECU Cover in it. SO there you have it, my SilverTOP swap is working great!

I took it up and down the streets with only the header and downtube, so I couldn't really keep doing it, but it ran great. Pulled to 8400RPM on 1st and 2nd but ran out of road for 3rd.. I could feel it pulling right up though.

Sweetness, if I would of caught that I could of saved myself the $200 in parts tune-up I just paid for. Good news is I found some distributor caps, bad news is that they are $50+ a pop. Ignition rotor is cheap, and wires you can get off a eairly 2nd Gen MR2.

Oh and I have a special suprise in store for the future. Keep an eye out for the next SilverTop Turbo MR2

[Mista 2]

congrats on getting it up and running. 8,400rpm, damn i didnt know they went that hard. are you going to put it on the dyno to find the power or down the 1/4??

[sandsz]

Yah, with the BlackTop ECU the rev limiter is at 8,400RPM. Its cool because mated with the silvertop C56 that means 3rd gear goes to 100mph instead of 80MPH. Its that little extra Umph that helps.

I'm gathering the parts needed for a T25 turbo and we'll see how that runs, but for now I have fab up an exhaust system because its stupid loud and I'm losing power for lack of back-pressure.

I'm also missing the mechanical speedo gear because my old one broke in my C50 tranny!! Hey btw, anyone have a mechanical speedo gear I can buy?

[Mista 2]

have you de-compressed the head to run boost?

[sandsz]

Not yet, I'm thinking of tuning the turbo for 6psi and running a 2mm thick head gasket to bring the Compression Ratio to 8.7, or 1.6mm for 9 even.

I'm going to run NA for a few months to make sure the motor dosent blow up on me. It feels strong so far, but you never be too careful.

Since the swap is done I can just get a SilverTop long block for around $300 if I blow this one. A swap of that nature I can get done in 1 day or ½ day with air tools.

The mechanics and plumbing are super easy for me, its the electronics that I worry about. I'm wondering if running a BT ECU with some sort of piggy back system would help me or could the MAPs on the BT be adjusted, OR since its such low PSI, would the BT ecu be able to compensate.

Donno!

[sandsz]

Hello Again! I just wanted to let people know what I think about the swap so far. I got it on the road and its runs cool, great oil pressure and seems to really like being in the MR2. I can't think of having this motor in a much heavier car really!

So in my experiences so far I would sum up a 20V MR2 as "elegant"
Why such a word? The motor responds to every little input smoothly. Its almost as if your dancing with the motor. The C56 Tranny is really an upgrade, I can feel it shifts better and smoother. Just FYI I automaticly rev-match down and granny shift up which eats clutches but saves the breaks for when they matter. I can shift at almost ANY rpm and this motor/tranny takes it as if it didn't matter.

The motor revs really quickly, but smoothly. It even revs down smoothly, this makes it very easy to efficiently use the motors power and leaves more attention for turning and break balancing. It pushes my little MR2 in any gear, even 5th. OH and another thing, and I LOVE THIS PART, the more throttle you give this motor, the more power it puts down. There is no lag, you want faster, you push harder. The old 16V 4AGE pretty made you shift down... the power band seems much wider. I don't know if its the VVT or the black-top ECU I'm running, but its nice.

Talking about Blacktop ECU, the motor revs to 8400rpm, pulling the whole way in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. It gives you that extra little top end in the ever-fun 3rd gear that superises a lot of people. Not to mention shifting that the higher RPM dumps you right in the middle of the next gear's power band as well. The ONLY draw back I see right now (and I haven't even run a full tank yet) is it seems to dump a little more fuel into the engine. That might be the extra 800rpm talking though.

I did run into one problem though, the top end towards the front sounds a little loud... is this normal running a BT ecu? I'm thinking of doing an oil change since I'm kind of re-breaking it in. Its not chatting but it sounds a little like a desiel I do have a horrendisly warn out distributor cap that I am replacing on Monday plus a set of plugs coming in... so we'll see. If it comes down to it I might run a little lucus in the mix.

[sandsz]

Uh OH folks, looks like sandsz got his new toys in!

YES, thats right, a silver top Turbo Exhaust Manifold for a T25, AND a rebuilt T25 Turbo... BUT HOUSTON we got a problem.

Turns out Mitsubishi decided to use a hybrid T25/TD05 turbo so I have to make an adapter from T25 to TD05 for the Exhaust inlet. All well, my fault for not researching. But I guess thats ok because I have to buy a 6psi actuator anyways.

So I'm thinking of increasing my head gasket size, bringing the compression down to about a ratio of 9, then slapping this puppy on there with a 6psi actuator.

What do you guys think? Should I piggy-back some sort of power chip/fuel management system or do you think the BT ecu (which is already running rich) can handle it?

[mr220v]

I think some sort of piggyback is in order. 20v ecu's seem to run a bit rich at higher rpms, but I doubt that will accomodate a turbo. The other thing is that there would be no way to adjust spark without a piggyback at least, so thats another problem.

Of course you could always go full standalone. I can make adapters that would make a standalone a direct plug-in proposition.

Here's a haltech that might actually go for a cheap price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/halte...spagenameZWDVW

And of course there is megasquirt2. I may have worked out a way around MS's problem with the 20v cam trigger.

[Vyshino]

WoW man that makes me want my 20v so much more, i pulled the redtop out 3 days ago and i am waiting on my ECU, im still a little confused on where each vacuum hose goes... but gah i really wanna get a BT ecu now... ive got a ST one, but damn maybe i should really try and find one. but if i get a BT ecu... will i have to re wire my ST harness???

[mr220v]

Yes you will. I make an adapter though, and if it's a new swap, I can wire for either ecu.

[Vyshino]

well ive heard what a BT ecu can do with a ST.... what can a ST ecu do? like redline, make power till, etc... is it a noticable difference between the 2? if so i might have togo BT ecu and get you to work your magic on the harness

[Vyshino]

Originally Posted by mr220v

Yes you will. I make an adapter though, and if it's a new swap, I can wire for either ecu.

well it is a new swap, the harness is cut at the fuse box, everything else is there and intact. so if i got the BT ecu, i guess you would only have to do is adapt the for the MaP sensor, right?
price?

[mr220v]

The price of any 20v harness I do is $350. All you would have to do is indicate which ecu you wanted to use on your orderform:

[ MR220V.COM ]

[espguitarist33]

from a satisfied customer- harness took 10 minutes ish to install had a few dumb quesitons he helped out with
key'ed it...**** fired right up! eveyrthing inside works too