Most bang per engine weight and ease of installation?

AlJam · 10-26-2009, 01:37 AM

Hello,

I currently drive a 94 MR2 (NA) and am looking into trading it for a MkI.
I've been toying with ideas for a swap someday in the future, but didn't want anything that would add too much weight or disrupt the handling, as well as something that's not overly difficult to install. What would you recommend for giving the most hp/torque gain for it's size? From glancing through here and elsewhere a bit, I gather the most common swaps are 4A-GZE, the 20 valve, 2ZZ-GE, 3S-GE, 3S-GTE, and various V6's, and that the first few would best fit this criteria.

Also, 1. would the typical turbo put on a 4A-GZE be more or less heavy than the stock supercharger?, 2. Do many people ever boost a 20v? and 3. would a supercharger/turbo added to a 2ZZ, as in the Lotus Elise/Exige SC, fit easily?

Thank you very much,
Alex

mr2v63vz · 10-26-2009, 02:06 AM

my buddys got an 88 s/c hed love to trade for a 94 where are you located?

AlJam · 10-26-2009, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2v63vz

my buddys got an 88 s/c hed love to trade for a 94 where are you located?

Hey man,

I'm in Kansas City, Missouri. I was thinking about just getting an NA and doing a whole bunch of stuff on it, but I'll definitely consider a SC in good shape. My email is Dendroaspis737@Gmail.com.

Cheers,
Alex

traintech86 · 10-26-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlJam

would a supercharger/turbo added to a 2ZZ, as in the Lotus Elise/Exige SC, fit easily?

Thank you very much,
Alex

this sounds like a bad ass ride haha,based on what little i know, most people would go with the gze. also there is a site someone posted in another thread that lists ways to get certain hp out of the various engines. the 16v 4a-ge/gze seems like the way to go. plus obviously it would be easy to put in there.

LokiRx7 · 10-28-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlJam

Hello,

I currently drive a 94 MR2 (NA) and am looking into trading it for a MkI.
I've been toying with ideas for a swap someday in the future, but didn't want anything that would add too much weight or disrupt the handling, as well as something that's not overly difficult to install. What would you recommend for giving the most hp/torque gain for it's size? From glancing through here and elsewhere a bit, I gather the most common swaps are 4A-GZE, the 20 valve, 2ZZ-GE, 3S-GE, 3S-GTE, and various V6's, and that the first few would best fit this criteria.

Also, 1. would the typical turbo put on a 4A-GZE be more or less heavy than the stock supercharger?, 2. Do many people ever boost a 20v? and 3. would a supercharger/turbo added to a 2ZZ, as in the Lotus Elise/Exige SC, fit easily?

Thank you very much,
Alex

Best value for your money would be the 20 valve if you look around you can find them for much cheaper than a GZE. Yes people boost them, its a high compression engine so it takes less boost to make comparable power to a typical booted engine. But its more difficult to tune, and you wont find any off the shelf software for it most likely.

ZZ engines are typically prohibitively expensive for most MK1 owners. For the cost you may be better off looking into a 3S-GTE.

The 20 valve and the GZE will be the easiest to perform, and the 20v is very close in weight to the stock GE.

I am going the V6 route but it isnt for the faint of heart and it is NOT easy, although I am doing it cheaper than any of the other swaps. But thats because I picked up a wrecked Camry for free, good luck scoring one lol. It gives you the most linear torque of any of the swaps and I love the noise they make.

traintech86 · 10-28-2009, 06:22 PM

how much more does the v6 weigh ?

LokiRx7 · 10-28-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traintech86

how much more does the v6 weigh ?

The VZ is pretty heavy, their is a weight list somewhere. I think its heavier but in the ballpark of a 3S-GTE

mr3 · 10-28-2009, 08:19 PM

There's a guy who has swapped a few v6's in the mk1. I'll post a link up when I get to my computer. I read through it 3 times so far. I'm thinking beams for now because this silvertop 20v isn't running perfect.

mr2v63vz · 10-29-2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LokiRx7

The VZ is pretty heavy, their is a weight list somewhere. I think its heavier but in the ballpark of a 3S-GTE

i think its roughly 100lbs heavier...dont qoute me though

328FTW · 10-29-2009, 07:19 AM

The 3VZ-FE may be a little porky but the extra torque and power more than makes up for it and with the torque you can steer with your right foot a bit more. Also the VZ may be heavier than the other toyota V6 engines like the MZ's but they are less picky about their sensors and with basic mods and an at home port you have about 220hp and a load of torque to boot and you can run it on fuel with twigs in it so the VZ is not a bad engine imo.

The gen3 3sge is often skipped as a motor but they are not bad either and can be had quite cheap compared to a beams or 3sgte. I run a gen2 3sge I'm planning to turbo and even that is a kick in the pants for the little mkI.

mr2v63vz · 10-30-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 328FTW

The 3VZ-FE may be a little porky but the extra torque and power more than makes up for it and with the torque you can steer with your right foot a bit more. Also the VZ may be heavier than the other toyota V6 engines like the MZ's but they are less picky about their sensors and with basic mods and an at home port you have about 220hp and a load of torque to boot and you can run it on fuel with twigs in it so the VZ is not a bad engine imo.

The gen3 3sge is often skipped as a motor but they are not bad either and can be had quite cheap compared to a beams or 3sgte. I run a gen2 3sge I'm planning to turbo and even that is a kick in the pants for the little mkI.

thank you 3vz = Torque!

traintech86 · 10-31-2009, 04:48 PM

someone threw this link out in another thread and i gave it a read. you might find some info in it:

Bill Sherwood's Modified 4AGE Page

how much more difficult is the v6? and i seen the one guy who does the v6 swaps. he is putting a v8 in 1... it sounds like a death trap >> i bet its gonna be awesome!

328FTW · 10-31-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traintech86

how much more difficult is the v6? and i seen the one guy who does the v6 swaps. he is putting a v8 in 1... it sounds like a death trap >> i bet its gonna be awesome!

Mounts + wiring + axles. Not that hard imo but I've done a few mounts and conversions so it's all a piece of chocolate cake to me. In a mkI all the mounts are custom not just the end one like in a mkII. Things like this take patience more than anything people want a bolt in turn key option that makes over 9000 hp but if there were such a thing everyone would have it and be doing it.

AlJam · 11-01-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LokiRx7

Best value for your money would be the 20 valve if you look around you can find them for much cheaper than a GZE. Yes people boost them, its a high compression engine so it takes less boost to make comparable power to a typical booted engine. But its more difficult to tune, and you wont find any off the shelf software for it most likely.

ZZ engines are typically prohibitively expensive for most MK1 owners. For the cost you may be better off looking into a 3S-GTE.

The 20 valve and the GZE will be the easiest to perform, and the 20v is very close in weight to the stock GE.

Cool, thanks. Is there a noteable difference when driving the 20v 4AGE compared to the 16v? I think the website that Traintech posted said the hp of the silvertop and blacktop was lower than quoted by Toyota (~145).

The GZE sounds like it has a fun amount of torque, but do you have to use the E51? I've read it's pretty heavy.

Truthfully, I don't really need anything really powerful since at the moment I probably wouldn't have much time/money to go to the track very often, maybe 150 whp or so, while keeping it light and nimble.

Thanks,
Alex

traintech86 · 11-01-2009, 01:58 AM

then go SC, i am pretty sure the standard tranny can handle it . its a drop in solution with the HP you need and i hear they sound bad ass!

mr3 · 11-01-2009, 08:56 AM

V6MR2

Close to the 3sgte swap but with 2 extra cylenders and extra torque!

328FTW · 11-01-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traintech86

and i hear they sound bad ass!

ooooooooooooh yes

I love the subtle yet noticeable whine coming from behind my head, my exhaust is 20x as loud as it should be as well purely because that was easiest and got it on the road but it could have a much nicer tone to it.

Also the stock tranny will handle it, I've got the tranny from a 1.3 corolla behind mine with the clutch from who knows what (was literally just picked up off the floor when I put it together) holding my modified 4agze. I have no idea why it hasn't blown yet I one wheel that thing one city to the next and no clutch slip or anything just the syncros are gone so it grinds into 2nd and 3rd.

kim0663 · 11-01-2009, 09:39 PM

im not so sure about them usdm 3sgtes but for jdm versions, a gen2 3sgte has more torque than the 3vzfe.

therefore, i won't even get started with gen3 3sgtes pissing over 3vzfe.

3vzfe is probably a upgrade for a 3sge. If you can choose between a 3sgte and a 3vzfe, i know which one i'd definately go for.

But noise wise... 3vzfe > 3sgte (in stock form

)

328FTW · 11-01-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kim0663

im not so sure about them usdm 3sgtes but for jdm versions, a gen2 3sgte has more torque than the 3vzfe.

therefore, i won't even get started with gen3 3sgtes pissing over 3vzfe.

3vzfe is probably a upgrade for a 3sge. If you can choose between a 3sgte and a 3vzfe, i know which one i'd definately go for.

But noise wise... 3vzfe > 3sgte (in stock form

)

One word......powerband, peak to peak one may beat the other but a 3vz will make torque from pretty much 2000rpm which makes for awesome driveability and it just hauls in every gear which is why they go quite well.

toyotaspeed90 · 11-04-2009, 03:42 PM

yes, you can use a C series transmission with a gze.... but, be forewarned that others have had problems. I personally think it's an issue with bolting the 2 piece axles together correctly -- as problems also occur on the n/a cars with these transmissions when the axles aren't properly put together. The e51 axles are put together differently, so they are not prone to the same problem.

my ae101 gze in my mr2 is mated to a C series and it held up just fine on 8" race tires

10-26-2009, 01:37 AM	#1 (permalink)
AlJam No Skills Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Most bang per engine weight and ease of installation? Hello, I currently drive a 94 MR2 (NA) and am looking into trading it for a MkI. I've been toying with ideas for a swap someday in the future, but didn't want anything that would add too much weight or disrupt the handling, as well as something that's not overly difficult to install. What would you recommend for giving the most hp/torque gain for it's size? From glancing through here and elsewhere a bit, I gather the most common swaps are 4A-GZE, the 20 valve, 2ZZ-GE, 3S-GE, 3S-GTE, and various V6's, and that the first few would best fit this criteria. Also, 1. would the typical turbo put on a 4A-GZE be more or less heavy than the stock supercharger?, 2. Do many people ever boost a 20v? and 3. would a supercharger/turbo added to a 2ZZ, as in the Lotus Elise/Exige SC, fit easily? Thank you very much, Alex

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10-26-2009, 02:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
mr2v63vz Cage Fighter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: New windsor,NY Posts: 327 Thanks: 50 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	my buddys got an 88 s/c hed love to trade for a 94 where are you located?

10-28-2009, 06:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
traintech86 Traintech86 on all im's Join Date: May 2009 Location: Norfolk VA Posts: 913 Thanks: 13 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	how much more does the v6 weigh ?

10-28-2009, 08:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
mr3 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Plymouth Mtg, Pa Posts: 842 Thanks: 19 Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	There's a guy who has swapped a few v6's in the mk1. I'll post a link up when I get to my computer. I read through it 3 times so far. I'm thinking beams for now because this silvertop 20v isn't running perfect.

10-29-2009, 07:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
328FTW 3vzfe tinkering Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,531 Thanks: 12 Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The 3VZ-FE may be a little porky but the extra torque and power more than makes up for it and with the torque you can steer with your right foot a bit more. Also the VZ may be heavier than the other toyota V6 engines like the MZ's but they are less picky about their sensors and with basic mods and an at home port you have about 220hp and a load of torque to boot and you can run it on fuel with twigs in it so the VZ is not a bad engine imo. The gen3 3sge is often skipped as a motor but they are not bad either and can be had quite cheap compared to a beams or 3sgte. I run a gen2 3sge I'm planning to turbo and even that is a kick in the pants for the little mkI.

10-31-2009, 04:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
traintech86 Traintech86 on all im's Join Date: May 2009 Location: Norfolk VA Posts: 913 Thanks: 13 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	someone threw this link out in another thread and i gave it a read. you might find some info in it: Bill Sherwood's Modified 4AGE Page how much more difficult is the v6? and i seen the one guy who does the v6 swaps. he is putting a v8 in 1... it sounds like a death trap >> i bet its gonna be awesome!

11-01-2009, 01:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
traintech86 Traintech86 on all im's Join Date: May 2009 Location: Norfolk VA Posts: 913 Thanks: 13 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	then go SC, i am pretty sure the standard tranny can handle it . its a drop in solution with the HP you need and i hear they sound bad ass!

11-01-2009, 08:56 AM	#16 (permalink)
mr3 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Plymouth Mtg, Pa Posts: 842 Thanks: 19 Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	V6MR2 Close to the 3sgte swap but with 2 extra cylenders and extra torque!

11-01-2009, 09:39 PM	#18 (permalink)
kim0663 MISTA2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New Zealand, Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	im not so sure about them usdm 3sgtes but for jdm versions, a gen2 3sgte has more torque than the 3vzfe. therefore, i won't even get started with gen3 3sgtes pissing over 3vzfe. 3vzfe is probably a upgrade for a 3sge. If you can choose between a 3sgte and a 3vzfe, i know which one i'd definately go for. But noise wise... 3vzfe > 3sgte (in stock form )

11-04-2009, 03:42 PM	#20 (permalink)
toyotaspeed90 No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 422 Thanks: 0 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	yes, you can use a C series transmission with a gze.... but, be forewarned that others have had problems. I personally think it's an issue with bolting the 2 piece axles together correctly -- as problems also occur on the n/a cars with these transmissions when the axles aren't properly put together. The e51 axles are put together differently, so they are not prone to the same problem. my ae101 gze in my mr2 is mated to a C series and it held up just fine on 8" race tires