Discussion: 3S-GE Swap

AceX · 05-14-2006, 07:04 AM

I want to discuss the idea of swapping in a 3S-GE engine into the MK1. I don't want to go turbo just yet. I've driven nothing but N/A cars so far and I don't want to try and play with a turbo while I learn the car within the next two years.

I like the idea of having more low and mid-range torque at my disposal because this is where my car is working most of the time. I hardly ever go over 5k RPM.

Now, I talked with a friend of mine about this swap (he is currently doing it to his MK1) and the idea of a Beams motor came up. He said that the daily driveability of the motor is questionable. Its a good motor for N/A performance, but like the 4age, it lives in the upper RPM range which is exactly where I don't want it to be.

I'm kind of torn on the swap. I'm still holding the idea of a 2zz in the back of my mind, but I want to discuss this swap a bit more before I do more research on the 2zz swap.

canadam · 05-14-2006, 08:06 AM

Personally, I'd consider a 1ZZ swap over each. The engines are a dime a dozen (friend just had to give one away for $400), and its got the power of a stock SC. The 2ZZ doesn't do well in the heavier Corolla nor Matrix in comparison to the MKIII, but it has to be seen how well it does in the MKI, which is also a couple to few hundred pounds heavier than the MKIII. Also, the 1ZZ has been proven to do a good job of handling a bunch of boost. For power to dollars, I'd really consider it.

TomsMR2 · 05-14-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

I like the idea of having more low and mid-range torque at my disposal because this is where my car is working most of the time

4agze.. smog legal, direct swap.. no cutting, welding, or real rewiring.

45nut · 05-18-2006, 07:50 PM

OK,,,,got any direct links to sources? I have a red 85 MKI,,1600cc, manual trans.

AceX · 05-19-2006, 09:31 AM

The whole idea behind it is that I DON'T want to boost the motor. Driving an N/A and an S/C motor are still very different experiences.

Tyler H · 05-19-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

4agze.. smog legal, direct swap.. no cutting, welding, or real rewiring.

Agreed, followed by the 20V, 3SGTE, 5SFE, and 3SGE in my order of preference.

Anything with a "G" in it is going to be revvy...and that's what you want.

Tyler H · 05-19-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceX

The whole idea behind it is that I DON'T want to boost the motor. Driving an N/A and an S/C motor are still very different experiences.

Why/ what difference does it make? Unless you learn to adapt your driving to varying cars/conditions by learning and mastering the fundamentals of driving, you're not really improving. You don't want to be one-dimensional, and the GZE will give you the lowend thrust of an NA. It's torque curve looks like a higher-displacement NA motor, it bolts in, and its a sweet freakin engine.

The 3sge is OLD as dirt (in this country,) with less parts availability and no well-defined swap path for the Mk1

turdbo · 05-19-2006, 05:33 PM

not only that but if you have the mone you can put any engine you want in your car..have you ever though about a 2zz-ge swap..if you could get your hands on 1 that would be insane..iv driven a vibe gt that had a 2zz in it and that thing was heavy but it flew..also redlined at 8200 with vvti..sweet motors..never really messed with the 1zz though i wonder if theyr any different power and durablilty wise?

AceX · 05-19-2006, 07:32 PM

I'm personally not ready to make the leap into a boosted motor yet. Its a personal choice that I have made. It's for my own safety and learning experience. N/A's are by far the most forgiving out of all the motors, that is why I like them.

Driving a turbo charged motor is just... different. I don't even know how to describe it. It's just so different, even in a straight line, on the freeway, or anywhere, it just feels too alien to me.

Tyler H · 05-21-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceX

I'm personally not ready to make the leap into a boosted motor yet. Its a personal choice that I have made. It's for my own safety and learning experience. N/A's are by far the most forgiving out of all the motors, that is why I like them.

Driving a turbo charged motor is just... different. I don't even know how to describe it. It's just so different, even in a straight line, on the freeway, or anywhere, it just feels too alien to me.

You have to learn car control. The laws of physics don't shift on their axis just because the motor isn't aspirated naturally. You need experience.

The motor isn't what makes a car 'forgiving.' There's no such thing as a forgiving MR2, anyway.

You have control over your right foot. Unless you're Michael J. Fox.

Senko · 05-21-2006, 01:21 AM

well here is my question, how much are you planning to spend? cause if your thinking of a cut and weld setup, why not just try and stick a v6 into it? LOTS of low end torque. it would still be NA with decent power, HUGE dailydriveability, low maintenence cost, etc, and you would still be trying something different. Yeah its probly a huge wallet buster of an idea, but hey. OK I am a newb, so correct me if I am wrong, but wouldnt the 3sge, and 3sgte share the same bolt mountings and everything as they are the same engine family? (and out of the same car to I think, aside from the celica) well couldnt he just source info from the 3sgte swapped mk1s?

Tyler H · 05-22-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senko

well here is my question, how much are you planning to spend? cause if your thinking of a cut and weld setup, why not just try and stick a v6 into it? LOTS of low end torque. it would still be NA with decent power, HUGE dailydriveability, low maintenence cost, etc, and you would still be trying something different. Yeah its probly a huge wallet buster of an idea, but hey. OK I am a newb, so correct me if I am wrong, but wouldnt the 3sge, and 3sgte share the same bolt mountings and everything as they are the same engine family? (and out of the same car to I think, aside from the celica) well couldnt he just source info from the 3sgte swapped mk1s?

Wiring will be different, and the only 3sge's running around in the states are from 86-89 Celicas. Unless they were imported...

It's just a lot of expense and hacking up of a perfectly good car when there are easier ways to go. The hacking is worth it if you're shooting for mega horsepower (aka 3sgte,) but the 4AGZE is a bolt-in solution.

mr220v · 05-28-2006, 08:11 AM

If you want a fast/cheap swap, just get a 20v. Instant 140hp to the wheels depending on what you get. The 20v has an excellent powerband as well.

2zzge's will fit. There is a guy on the other board who has proven this. Its almost a direct bolt in. Its just the cost of the motor and the obd2 wiring. Should be about the same proposition for the 1zz as well, except much cheaper.

blown59 · 10-20-2006, 01:01 AM

Id go the 2ZZ route, having done this myself. The 20v has been done so many times now, info everywhere. Its even easier than the 2ZZ, which knowing what to do now, isnt hard. The wiring is a bit of a pain though. The 3S, is going to be alot of fabbing on the install and not sure about the wiring differences between it and the turbo, but probably close. That info should be pretty easy to obtain as well.

te51levin · 10-26-2006, 12:48 AM

I like the idea. I'd certainly give it a try if the 3S-GE was a fresh example and if I could give it a few of the same tweaks my current engine has. I like doing things you're not supposed to be able to do with parts that aren't supposed to make power...

05-14-2006, 07:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
AceX Alien Face Hugger Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 619 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Discussion: 3S-GE Swap I want to discuss the idea of swapping in a 3S-GE engine into the MK1. I don't want to go turbo just yet. I've driven nothing but N/A cars so far and I don't want to try and play with a turbo while I learn the car within the next two years. I like the idea of having more low and mid-range torque at my disposal because this is where my car is working most of the time. I hardly ever go over 5k RPM. Now, I talked with a friend of mine about this swap (he is currently doing it to his MK1) and the idea of a Beams motor came up. He said that the daily driveability of the motor is questionable. Its a good motor for N/A performance, but like the 4age, it lives in the upper RPM range which is exactly where I don't want it to be. I'm kind of torn on the swap. I'm still holding the idea of a 2zz in the back of my mind, but I want to discuss this swap a bit more before I do more research on the 2zz swap.

05-14-2006, 08:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
canadam MidshipExpress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Posts: 9,549 Thanks: 117 Thanked 129 Times in 112 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (29/100% )	Personally, I'd consider a 1ZZ swap over each. The engines are a dime a dozen (friend just had to give one away for $400), and its got the power of a stock SC. The 2ZZ doesn't do well in the heavier Corolla nor Matrix in comparison to the MKIII, but it has to be seen how well it does in the MKI, which is also a couple to few hundred pounds heavier than the MKIII. Also, the 1ZZ has been proven to do a good job of handling a bunch of boost. For power to dollars, I'd really consider it. __________________ WTB ASAP: Black Glove Box Surround - Not the box itself, but the dash plastics it sits in 3SGTE Upper Timing Belt Cover Driver's side seatback - must have bolster and lumbar adjustments, cover condition does not matter - will trade non-adjustable. Genuine Tom's Sides and Rear - replica kits not considered Frunk Plastics - no cracks Mechanical Gauge Cluster - KP/H preferred, but not required. Engine Bay X Brace

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05-18-2006, 07:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
45nut No Skills Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	OK,,,,got any direct links to sources? I have a red 85 MKI,,1600cc, manual trans.

05-19-2006, 09:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
AceX Alien Face Hugger Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 619 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The whole idea behind it is that I DON'T want to boost the motor. Driving an N/A and an S/C motor are still very different experiences.

05-19-2006, 05:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
turdbo No Skills Join Date: May 2006 Location: OH Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	not only that but if you have the mone you can put any engine you want in your car..have you ever though about a 2zz-ge swap..if you could get your hands on 1 that would be insane..iv driven a vibe gt that had a 2zz in it and that thing was heavy but it flew..also redlined at 8200 with vvti..sweet motors..never really messed with the 1zz though i wonder if theyr any different power and durablilty wise?

05-19-2006, 07:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
AceX Alien Face Hugger Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 619 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I'm personally not ready to make the leap into a boosted motor yet. Its a personal choice that I have made. It's for my own safety and learning experience. N/A's are by far the most forgiving out of all the motors, that is why I like them. Driving a turbo charged motor is just... different. I don't even know how to describe it. It's just so different, even in a straight line, on the freeway, or anywhere, it just feels too alien to me.

05-21-2006, 01:21 AM	#11 (permalink)
Senko Cage Fighter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 101 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	well here is my question, how much are you planning to spend? cause if your thinking of a cut and weld setup, why not just try and stick a v6 into it? LOTS of low end torque. it would still be NA with decent power, HUGE dailydriveability, low maintenence cost, etc, and you would still be trying something different. Yeah its probly a huge wallet buster of an idea, but hey. OK I am a newb, so correct me if I am wrong, but wouldnt the 3sge, and 3sgte share the same bolt mountings and everything as they are the same engine family? (and out of the same car to I think, aside from the celica) well couldnt he just source info from the 3sgte swapped mk1s?

05-28-2006, 08:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,791 Thanks: 13 Thanked 139 Times in 117 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	If you want a fast/cheap swap, just get a 20v. Instant 140hp to the wheels depending on what you get. The 20v has an excellent powerband as well. 2zzge's will fit. There is a guy on the other board who has proven this. Its almost a direct bolt in. Its just the cost of the motor and the obd2 wiring. Should be about the same proposition for the 1zz as well, except much cheaper.

10-20-2006, 01:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
blown59 MR2ZZ-GE w/ 6spd Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 91 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Id go the 2ZZ route, having done this myself. The 20v has been done so many times now, info everywhere. Its even easier than the 2ZZ, which knowing what to do now, isnt hard. The wiring is a bit of a pain though. The 3S, is going to be alot of fabbing on the install and not sure about the wiring differences between it and the turbo, but probably close. That info should be pretty easy to obtain as well.

10-26-2006, 12:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
te51levin Lithia Toyota Parts Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,928 Thanks: 33 Thanked 146 Times in 125 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (126/100% )	I like the idea. I'd certainly give it a try if the 3S-GE was a fresh example and if I could give it a few of the same tweaks my current engine has. I like doing things you're not supposed to be able to do with parts that aren't supposed to make power...