Mark1 gets hot and bogs under throttle?

mr2tim · 11-01-2008, 06:17 PM

Yeah, Mon, she gets used after about 1-2 hours, she won't take any throttle and bogs out, if I light-foot the gas pedal I can baby her home. (s/c car)

Thought it was heat related and pulled the thermostat out, first really hot day it came back, same snot?

Plugs good lookin', cap and rotor new, timing dead on w new belt, pressure reads 33psi like it should all the time, all injectors sound 100%, new in-tank gas filter and pump, new exterior gas filter.

I'm replacing the throttle and TPS tonight, I don't have a spare AFM.

Any thoughts out thar in mr2 land?

Real Hard drivin Dude sez thanks for any help!

Papo J · 11-02-2008, 11:10 AM

Test the coil.

Fast510 · 12-07-2008, 03:34 PM

Any info or progress on this problem? I have a similar problem with my 89SC. I will post my own thread in a few min.

mr2tim · 12-09-2008, 01:55 PM

My problem appears to be pressure related as the fuel pressure dies off after the pump gets warmed up. It could be pressure regulator related too. When the throttle is opened the pressure goes under 20psi.

What I never knew is that the Fuel Pressure Gauge shows upwards of 38-44PSI during WOT operation as well.

My rebuilt pump is 3 years old with very few hours. When I get it out I'll let you know if the filter was clogged like in my 88 S/C afew months back.

I'm betting it's not a regulator problem.

mr2tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast510

Any info or progress on this problem? I have a similar problem with my 89SC. I will post my own thread in a few min.

Jackstand Queen · 12-12-2008, 12:26 PM

Whoah, before you puller out the FP, try cracking the gas filler cap just a tiny bit loose, to let air in.

When I fill up my tank, and go up a hill . . . my tank doesn't let air in to replace the gas pumped out. It stutters, but when I loosen up the gas filler cap it doesn't happen.

Your problem could be a different version of mine.

mr2tim · 01-14-2009, 07:55 PM

Been thinkin' 'bout your statement on the gas out/air in.

I really don't think everything is right with your tank setup. First off, in stock form there should be a vacuum line running to the tank which siphons off fumes from the gas tank. 2nd, if your cracking the gas filler gas cap your defeating this feature.

When your going up a hill the gas moves to the back of the tank, if you have less than 1/2 tank you may be sucking air into the pump? Especially if you are accelerating? Just a thought brother..like I said something's not right with this setup.

BTW I pulled the pump when I found the pressure was dropping to 20psi which was causing the bog-out, I still have a miss on acceleration which relates to the electrical system now. After about an hour of use I start getting 17 volts to the battery which causes some faulty acceleration. I suspect the 17 volts may have killed the last fuel pump. More news later on this issue.

Thanks for the input, and thanks again for sticking up with me about that screwball jerk from the Africa MR2 Club.

Tim

PS Here's the dwrg of the EVAP which shows the vacuum line coming off the canister then to the gas tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackstand Queen

Whoah, before you puller out the FP, try cracking the gas filler cap just a tiny bit loose, to let air in.

When I fill up my tank, and go up a hill . . . my tank doesn't let air in to replace the gas pumped out. It stutters, but when I loosen up the gas filler cap it doesn't happen.

Your problem could be a different version of mine.

mr2tim · 01-14-2009, 07:58 PM

BTW I pulled the pump when I found the pressure was dropping to 20psi which was causing the bog-out, I still have a miss on acceleration which relates to the electrical system now. After about an hour of use I start getting 17 volts to the battery which causes some faulty acceleration. I suspect the 17 volts may have killed the last fuel pump. More news later on this issue.

How's things movin' on your similiar problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast510

Any info or progress on this problem? I have a similar problem with my 89SC. I will post my own thread in a few min.

Don't Worry, It's Just Me · 01-14-2009, 09:10 PM

i totally read the name of this thread really fast and could have sworn it said Mark1 gets hot dogs under throttle?............ just thought i'd share that with you.

Jackstand Queen · 01-14-2009, 11:46 PM

Hmmm let me think a minute . . . O.K.

MR2Tim: its certain we have two different mechanical/electrical problems going on with our cars. My problem only occurs shortly after a fill-up, and only uphill. I have disconnected every EGR vacuum line, and removed the carbon canister filter. Yet I did retain the vent/vacuum connection from the gas tank to the TB. In between the TB and vent tube: there is a Vacuum switch Valve mounted on the thermostat cluster that opens when warm. That switch could be bad. I'll have to test it someday, after I get a few dozen other issues corrected.

As to the post from S. Africa you alluded to . . . let's just blame it on Dengue Fever, a strong batch of fermented Magumbo roots, quit taking his medication or something?

But about your car now . . . if its charging at 17 volts, wouldn't sensitive electronics like IC boards for the ECU, PW, AC, CC, get whacked before a sturdy set of windings on an electric pump go? I think the battery acts as a damper, or capacitor when a higher than 12V charge is sent to it. Strangely enough electrical power flows from the negative terminal out to the electrical devices in the car. Therefore charging should flow energy into the battery.

My diagnosis is your quantum flux capicitor is failing, or all the spirits of all of the (many) small animals you've shot are chasing your car around for malicious purposes. Joking.. I'm really saying I don't have a clue. Maybe replacing the FP is just the ticket?

Jackstand Queen · 01-17-2009, 12:51 AM

Mr2Tim:

I've had my SC bog down pretty bad too. I thought I'd toss a few possible culprits your way.

Corroded terminal on the coolant temperature sensor and the air temp sensor on the AFM.
In fact corroded terminals at the AFM period.
Faulty TPS.
Faulty injector solenoid unit.
Corroroded terminals on the coil power leads.
cracked spark plug insulator(s)
arcing plugs wires
Sticking, tired, gummed up and stubborn ABV !
(I replaced mine with a Bosch ABV that went on a Saab Turbo)

I owned an N.A. for about 7 years before I got the "Jackstand Queen". And believe me, these damn SC's are way in the hell harder to keep running in top form.

mr2tim · 01-17-2009, 08:10 AM

Thanks Jackstand,

I copied your ideas down on your problem areas and will attack them when these mean 50F temps back off to warmer 70F's today.

Funny thing is when I took the car over to my elect genius friend his elect meter only registered 14.5 volts like it should. He thinks the voltmeter gauge at my dash is faulty and related to the dash lights blinking off at night occasionally. I'm waiting for another problem to surface to neccessitate pulling the dash apart, such a pain in the shorts.

I still get the cut-out on accelerating at about 2k rpm under load, but it's intermittant now and only momentary. I'm still looking for causes and will use your suggestions next, who knows? I'm sure I'll stumble on something soon?

I heard on the tube everyone freezin' the bejesus off upstate wise? Is your mr2 out in the cold stuff?

Tim

Jackstand Queen · 01-17-2009, 12:27 PM

The next time I get my car running (the SC is pulled out now) . . . I will have done a couple of significant changes. 1. Installed a N.A. throttle body and reamed out the top of the Jpipe too. 2. Grounded the gas select switch out of the ECU (I have an N.A. wiring harness up front). 3. Also I fixed a vacuum leak on the inlet tube of SC. Having done two performance mods at the same time, I will never know which one contributed more power, or at first glance which is the screw up.

So . . . you are waiting for 70 degrees to gently drift your way again?? Why you dry gulching, bushing-wacking, four flushing %&*$#@%, you don't know what hell is like!!!! Hell is months of rain, fog and overcast . . . . its where you come to know all 56 shades of grey intimately.

Seriously, I work under a carport, but otherwise the highs have been in the 50's lately. For as far North as I am . . . that's warm. The weather is moderated by winds off the Pacific. Paint doesn't stick, glue doesn't glue, sealant doesn't seal at 50 degrees and below. So, for me, a small mechanical problem can drag on for months through the bad part of the year.

I suspect your car is behaving better because of all the tweaking on your engines electrical connectors. By fiddling with it, you've probably improved a critical electrical connection. If you are close to the ocean, corrosion on electrical connectors will be much worse. I heard Ford changed over to gold plated electrical connectors a while back. Meanwhile you could put some lithium grease on your connectors as you reassemble them.

Timon · 01-17-2009, 05:18 PM

^ Both of you are complaining about weather.

Just to let you know it's a high of 40 here today and to me that's amazing sun roof weather. I just took a drive and even decided it was warm enough to drop a window. I'd be working on my 2 right now if I didn't have work in a bit. I hate putting myself into a time crunch position, so I avoid it at all costs.

As to your acceleration problem. You may wanna hook it up and check the air/fuel mixture at the lower RPMs where you're having your problem. I was having some issues with acceleration in the lower range too. I replaced the plugs, wires, rotor, and cap with no luck. Ran through some high octane fuel on a tank and then later some fuel injector cleaning, still nothing. I still have the problem slightly, but not near as bad after I adjusted the air/fuel mixture. I don't recommend doing this, but it is worth a shot. There is a cog inside the AFM that adjusts air/fuel mixture, clockwise is more lean, counter-clockwise is more rich. If you do this PLEASE mark the original spot PRIOR to adjusting it. The last thing you want is the cog coming loose on your and spinning off randomly and completely ruining the AFM.

Just to kind of throw this out there too regarding air/fuel, could it have anything to do with your O2 sensor maybe?

Keep us updated on how it's coming.

89Mr2Supercharged · 01-17-2009, 10:54 PM

I seem to have the same problem, I drove for about 1-2 hours and not it just bogs. It will randomly pull strong but will die quickly(I posted more info in the general maintenance section.)

Jackstand Queen · 01-18-2009, 01:44 AM

Mr2Tim and 89Supercharged: do you guys have spare ECU's?

ECU's can cause intermittant failure, or poor running. They definitely can do that.

I keep a spare ECU around to provide a "ruling out" diagnosis for my current ECU as well as a spare part.

A bad ECU does not necessarily put out any trouble codes at all.

11-01-2008, 06:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
mr2tim SUPERcharZed ToyZ RacZer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 690 Thanks: 2 Thanked 41 Times in 38 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Mark1 gets hot and bogs under throttle? Yeah, Mon, she gets used after about 1-2 hours, she won't take any throttle and bogs out, if I light-foot the gas pedal I can baby her home. (s/c car) Thought it was heat related and pulled the thermostat out, first really hot day it came back, same snot? Plugs good lookin', cap and rotor new, timing dead on w new belt, pressure reads 33psi like it should all the time, all injectors sound 100%, new in-tank gas filter and pump, new exterior gas filter. I'm replacing the throttle and TPS tonight, I don't have a spare AFM. Any thoughts out thar in mr2 land? Real Hard drivin Dude sez thanks for any help!

01-17-2009, 10:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
89Mr2Supercharged No Skills Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 16 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Same problem I seem to have the same problem, I drove for about 1-2 hours and not it just bogs. It will randomly pull strong but will die quickly(I posted more info in the general maintenance section.)

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11-02-2008, 11:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Papo J 6SPD GTE Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 189 Thanks: 1 Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Test the coil.

12-07-2008, 03:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
Fast510 No Skills Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lake Stevens, WA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Any info or progress on this problem? I have a similar problem with my 89SC. I will post my own thread in a few min.

12-12-2008, 12:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Whoah, before you puller out the FP, try cracking the gas filler cap just a tiny bit loose, to let air in. When I fill up my tank, and go up a hill . . . my tank doesn't let air in to replace the gas pumped out. It stutters, but when I loosen up the gas filler cap it doesn't happen. Your problem could be a different version of mine.

01-14-2009, 09:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
Don't Worry, It's Just Me I'll have skills someday! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Minnetonka, MN Posts: 683 Thanks: 18 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	i totally read the name of this thread really fast and could have sworn it said Mark1 gets hot dogs under throttle?............ just thought i'd share that with you.

01-14-2009, 11:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Hmmm let me think a minute . . . O.K. MR2Tim: its certain we have two different mechanical/electrical problems going on with our cars. My problem only occurs shortly after a fill-up, and only uphill. I have disconnected every EGR vacuum line, and removed the carbon canister filter. Yet I did retain the vent/vacuum connection from the gas tank to the TB. In between the TB and vent tube: there is a Vacuum switch Valve mounted on the thermostat cluster that opens when warm. That switch could be bad. I'll have to test it someday, after I get a few dozen other issues corrected. As to the post from S. Africa you alluded to . . . let's just blame it on Dengue Fever, a strong batch of fermented Magumbo roots, quit taking his medication or something? But about your car now . . . if its charging at 17 volts, wouldn't sensitive electronics like IC boards for the ECU, PW, AC, CC, get whacked before a sturdy set of windings on an electric pump go? I think the battery acts as a damper, or capacitor when a higher than 12V charge is sent to it. Strangely enough electrical power flows from the negative terminal out to the electrical devices in the car. Therefore charging should flow energy into the battery. My diagnosis is your quantum flux capicitor is failing, or all the spirits of all of the (many) small animals you've shot are chasing your car around for malicious purposes. Joking.. I'm really saying I don't have a clue. Maybe replacing the FP is just the ticket?

01-17-2009, 12:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Mr2Tim: I've had my SC bog down pretty bad too. I thought I'd toss a few possible culprits your way. Corroded terminal on the coolant temperature sensor and the air temp sensor on the AFM. In fact corroded terminals at the AFM period. Faulty TPS. Faulty injector solenoid unit. Corroroded terminals on the coil power leads. cracked spark plug insulator(s) arcing plugs wires Sticking, tired, gummed up and stubborn ABV ! (I replaced mine with a Bosch ABV that went on a Saab Turbo) I owned an N.A. for about 7 years before I got the "Jackstand Queen". And believe me, these damn SC's are way in the hell harder to keep running in top form.

01-17-2009, 08:10 AM	#11 (permalink)
mr2tim SUPERcharZed ToyZ RacZer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 690 Thanks: 2 Thanked 41 Times in 38 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Thanks Jackstand, I copied your ideas down on your problem areas and will attack them when these mean 50F temps back off to warmer 70F's today. Funny thing is when I took the car over to my elect genius friend his elect meter only registered 14.5 volts like it should. He thinks the voltmeter gauge at my dash is faulty and related to the dash lights blinking off at night occasionally. I'm waiting for another problem to surface to neccessitate pulling the dash apart, such a pain in the shorts. I still get the cut-out on accelerating at about 2k rpm under load, but it's intermittant now and only momentary. I'm still looking for causes and will use your suggestions next, who knows? I'm sure I'll stumble on something soon? I heard on the tube everyone freezin' the bejesus off upstate wise? Is your mr2 out in the cold stuff? Tim

01-17-2009, 12:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	The next time I get my car running (the SC is pulled out now) . . . I will have done a couple of significant changes. 1. Installed a N.A. throttle body and reamed out the top of the Jpipe too. 2. Grounded the gas select switch out of the ECU (I have an N.A. wiring harness up front). 3. Also I fixed a vacuum leak on the inlet tube of SC. Having done two performance mods at the same time, I will never know which one contributed more power, or at first glance which is the screw up. So . . . you are waiting for 70 degrees to gently drift your way again?? Why you dry gulching, bushing-wacking, four flushing %&$#@%, you don't know what hell is like*!!!! Hell is months of rain, fog and overcast . . . . its where you come to know all 56 shades of grey intimately. Seriously, I work under a carport, but otherwise the highs have been in the 50's lately. For as far North as I am . . . that's warm. The weather is moderated by winds off the Pacific. Paint doesn't stick, glue doesn't glue, sealant doesn't seal at 50 degrees and below. So, for me, a small mechanical problem can drag on for months through the bad part of the year. I suspect your car is behaving better because of all the tweaking on your engines electrical connectors. By fiddling with it, you've probably improved a critical electrical connection. If you are close to the ocean, corrosion on electrical connectors will be much worse. I heard Ford changed over to gold plated electrical connectors a while back. Meanwhile you could put some lithium grease on your connectors as you reassemble them.

01-17-2009, 05:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 628 Thanks: 13 Thanked 37 Times in 33 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	^ Both of you are complaining about weather. Just to let you know it's a high of 40 here today and to me that's amazing sun roof weather. I just took a drive and even decided it was warm enough to drop a window. I'd be working on my 2 right now if I didn't have work in a bit. I hate putting myself into a time crunch position, so I avoid it at all costs. As to your acceleration problem. You may wanna hook it up and check the air/fuel mixture at the lower RPMs where you're having your problem. I was having some issues with acceleration in the lower range too. I replaced the plugs, wires, rotor, and cap with no luck. Ran through some high octane fuel on a tank and then later some fuel injector cleaning, still nothing. I still have the problem slightly, but not near as bad after I adjusted the air/fuel mixture. I don't recommend doing this, but it is worth a shot. There is a cog inside the AFM that adjusts air/fuel mixture, clockwise is more lean, counter-clockwise is more rich. If you do this PLEASE mark the original spot PRIOR to adjusting it. The last thing you want is the cog coming loose on your and spinning off randomly and completely ruining the AFM. Just to kind of throw this out there too regarding air/fuel, could it have anything to do with your O2 sensor maybe? Keep us updated on how it's coming.

01-18-2009, 01:44 AM	#15 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Mr2Tim and 89Supercharged: do you guys have spare ECU's? ECU's can cause intermittant failure, or poor running. They definitely can do that. I keep a spare ECU around to provide a "ruling out" diagnosis for my current ECU as well as a spare part. A bad ECU does not necessarily put out any trouble codes at all.